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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/9/2001 7:23:13 PM EDT
This is in SGN and I've seen it many times. If it is a sting of some sort, how can they legally entrap people?? If it's not a sting, is it legal? They make it sound legal with ATF letter and all that BS. [img]blackrifle.gunsnet.net/DIAS_ad.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:38:47 PM EDT
[img]http://members.aol.com/govtthug/images/atf.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:39:04 PM EDT
I asked the ATF guy that come to check out my business location before I got my FFl about these. He said that if it is legal to own it must have a serial number. If it has a serial number it has to have NFA paperwork. These also require you to have M16 parts in you gun to work which is also illegal now, unless it is a registered machine gun. The letter they come with is OLD, before the '86 ban. There has been a lot of changes since then. THEY ARE ILLEGAL TO OWN, MUCH LESS HAVE ONE IN YOUR RIFLE.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:41:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:43:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2001 7:49:53 PM EDT by tannery_shop]
ME AND A FRIEND BOUGHT A FEW OF THEM, AND RESOLD THEM ON "AUCTIONS" , NEVER HAD THE NERVE TO TRY THEM , BUT IT LOOKED LIKE A GOOD PRODUCT, THE "SO CALLED LETTER" IS JUST A COPY OF A BATF STATEMENT, I WOULD POST ONE BUT I HAVE NO SCANNER, I REALLY DO NOT THINK THEY WERE PRE-BAN , BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN , IT HAS BEEN ABOUT A 1 1/2 YEARS AGO , AND NOTHING CAME OUT OF IT WILLIAM PS THEY HAD NO SER# ON THEM AT ALL
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 7:45:37 PM EDT
Man, we need an ar15.com FAQ. subguns.com has info about the DIAS over there. I see this posted about once or twice a month here. It's a scam, the phone # traces to Alexandria, VA, and the online version's web address goes to a low-quality, free e-mail service. Pretty shady. Even if it isn't a sting, you will get ripped off. Caveat emptor.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:01:56 PM EDT
I wouldn't go near one. Like most stings, they take their time... months, years etc. Then when their credibility is in jeopardy (hmmmm... like it is now), they dig out their big list of names and addresses. Presto, instant validation, and large media coverage of all the evil people that were pulled in and charged. The world will be a safer place. Well, until some demented azz gets the bright idea to go into a Japanese gradeschool with a kitchen knife.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:08:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2001 8:11:35 PM EDT by shaggy]
This subject has been beat to death on the legal and full auto forums, but here's the basics... Possession of a DIAS with an AR15 is a felony; doesn't have to be installed, possession is all thats necessary. In US v. Cash, the 7th US Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that BATF did not have the power to "grandfather" certain DIAS's based upon when they were manufactured. The court said that the 1981 date of the BATF ruling was only relevant to a free, tax paid NFA registration of unregistered DIAS's. This free registration ended in May 1986, when all civie production of MGs was disallowed. Thus all DIAS's are now either registered NFA weapons (machineguns) or unregistered machineguns. In the latter case, if unregistered, they are a felony to possess just by themselves. This issue has not been tested in any other US circuit though. However, that does not mean its legal. The ruling in the 7th Circuit was a well reasoned and logical decision by a well known and respected judge (Easterbrook). If tested in any other circuit, there is little doubt they will decide the same way. There is also absolutely no question in any circuit that possession of just a post-81 DIAS is a felony. That said, the little letter that comes with the "pre-81" DIAS won't save your ass if you're hauled into court. BATF can (and probably will) do metalurgical studies on the DIAS in an attempt to prove the date of manufacture and nail you. In other words, if you get caught with a DIAS and BATF wants you, they'll get you. If you want a machinegun, buy a legally registered one. It may seem like a lot of money, but compared to spending $300/hour to an attorney to try to keep you out of prison, its cheap.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:17:29 PM EDT
Did anyone catch this?? It specifically says at the bottom-left of the ad that they "sell no AR15/M16 parts." So if it isn't a sting, it sure as hell IS a fraud. I would think they would ship you a small box, you pay your COD, and when you open it...you get a diagram or some crap. I wouldn't go near it either. CS
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:17:56 PM EDT
So basically, if the ad is not being run by the ATF to trap people, some yo-yo is selling illegal, unresgistered machine guns right in the open in a hugely popular gun magazine and nobody, ATF included, is doing anything about it????? And a member here in an above post says he bought several illegal, unregistered machine guns and sold them at auctions and nobody did anything about it? Damn, I guess I'm in the wrong business.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:19:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Coversix: Did anyone catch this?? It specifically says at the bottom-left of the ad that they "sell no AR15/M16 parts." So if it isn't a sting, it sure as hell IS a fraud. I would think they would ship you a small box, you pay your COD, and when you open it...you get a diagram or some crap. I wouldn't go near it either. CS
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So they are also committing a huge mail fraud and nobody does anything about it. Strange indeed!!
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:29:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2001 8:27:53 PM EDT by shaggy]
So basically, if the ad is not being run by the ATF to trap people, some yo-yo is selling illegal, unresgistered machine guns right in the open in a hugely popular gun magazine and nobody, ATF included, is doing anything about it?????
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Sometimes you gotta fill in the blanks... Unless the seller is within the jurisdiction of the 7th Circuit, its not illegal... YET. That is, the courts in other districts and circuits have not tested the issue, but the guy who is unlucky enough to be the test case in those jurisdictions better pack some vaseline. He will go down. That said, what do you think will happen when the seller is charged? Likely, he'll try to buy his way out with the names of those he sold to. You wanna be on that list?
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 8:50:30 PM EDT
Do you want to be on that list?
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No but I got a dead uncle that won't care one way or the other [:D]
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:08:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By akrazy:
Do you want to be on that list?
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No but I got a dead uncle that won't care one way or the other [:D]
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Good answer![:D]
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:32:04 PM EDT
shaggy seems to know what he's talking about, but I previously thought you could own a pre-81 DIAS if you had no AR-15 type firearm to put it in. Certainly having both would be very bad.
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:39:26 PM EDT
Woo hoo! I'll take 2 in the group buy you guys are getting together!
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:40:25 PM EDT
WHOA!
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 10:47:51 PM EDT
I'm somewhat of an NFA newbie, but even to me it seems obvious that if these were legal, it would be pretty hard for the guys selling RDIAS's to get $4k or so. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. I'd rather spend the bux for a real one than go to federal prison!
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 11:04:55 PM EDT
RE:You wanna be on that list? It clearly states that they keep no names, addresses, shipping records!! yeah, Right!! No Thanks!!
Link Posted: 6/9/2001 11:49:14 PM EDT
That "last chance" has been there for the past 20 years!!! BISHOP
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 12:02:11 AM EDT
No shit Bish! At least 20 ??
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 12:03:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2001 12:01:26 AM EDT by PeaShooter]
back then I think it was PDF? For $130 ea
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 10:58:47 AM EDT
My previous suggestion was to buy one for your favorite anti-gun town councilman--in their name!
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 11:52:18 AM EDT
Thing is, you don't know if they are papered or not. Could be $225 + the registration fee they paid + your $200 transfer fee. You don't know. Anyone call them and ask?
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 11:59:44 AM EDT
Thing is, you don't know if they are papered or not. Could be $225 + the registration fee they paid + your $200 transfer fee. You don't know. Anyone call them and ask?
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No need to. These aren't registered/papered. The legal ones - on a BATF form 1, 3 or 4 currently go for $4k-$4500. These are just a felony waiting to happen.
Link Posted: 6/10/2001 1:00:36 PM EDT
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