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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 5:52:25 PM EDT
In watching/taping a LOT of 9/11 related coverage over the past week, I got to thinking. I don't recall exactly which was who, but one of the MANY 9/11 heroes was said to have died nobly. Not much BEFORE this show there was one that has UBL saying that they loved death, and Americans love life, and that was the difference between us (some BS like that). So when the "noble death" phrase came up I was like, "Bullshit! He died a Noble death, but death is death, and it would have been far better for him to have lived (I believe it was in regard to Rick Rescorla (sp) who lost his life trying to evac the Trade Center - not even his remains were found, he was last seen on the 10th floor as he worked his way down to the ground floor.

What are YOUR views on this? I have to agree w/Admetus -

The point of death is death, and the dead are lost and gone. –Admetus (Alkestis, 527)

When I die, I hope it IS a noble death, but, I think better to live nobly than die nobly.

I mean I THINK that the terrorists THINK (in their warped minds) that THEIR death was "noble" even though it was not, because of so many reasons, but mostly, slaughtering innocents. I'm sure Rick didn't think the tower would collapse that QUICKLY, so he probably didn't MEAN to die...

Anyway - other opinions, please, been thinking on this for seveal days now....


Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:57:56 PM EDT
Not sure why, but I am reminded of Patton's comments about making the other SOB die for his country...
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:59:42 PM EDT
Hey, we're all going to die. It'd be nice if we could pick the time and place.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:03:49 PM EDT
Death, in and of itself, is never noble. The sacrifice of one's life for the greater good, can be.


(Joh 15:13)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.


Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:06:49 PM EDT
I believe there is such a thing as a dying nobly, just as there is living nobly. I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thoughts on the matter to satisfy everyone, but, in the end, that is not really necessary. I'm not trying to be trite, but if I have to explain, then I'm not sure it can be understood.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:07:56 PM EDT
Dead is dead.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:09:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 6:09:48 PM EDT by cyclone]
"Greater love hath no man than he lay down his life for his brother"........I believe this to be a noble act.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:24:28 PM EDT
If your actions that lead to your death earn you a CMOH, It would be pretty safe to say that it was a noble death.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:29:06 PM EDT
I agree that to be noble would have to entail giving your life for others.

The one that always gets me when I hear it on the news is a "tragic" death.
Why is that person's death tragic, while everyone else is just regular?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:37:31 PM EDT
In The Sandpebbles, Steve McQueen's character faught and died to give his friends enough time to escape back to the ship. That's pretty noble.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:41:27 PM EDT
James Snedigar died a noble death. I just wish he hadn't died.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:44:47 PM EDT
Everyone dies. We don't want to die, but if the choice is to be a live coward or a dead hero, I think the right choice is clear. I'd rather take a bullet in the chest than one in the back.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:45:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:
Death, in and of itself, is never noble. The sacrifice of one's life for the greater good, can be.


(Joh 15:13)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.





I think that the passengers who fought the terrorists and caused the plane to crash in a field in Penn. instead of D.C. died a noble death.

I think the jews who died fighting the Nazi's in the Warsaw getto died a noble death. I read all the time on this site about "Sheeple". I think saying I will fight and die rather than surrender and die is noble.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:49:41 PM EDT
Sure, long as it ain't you.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:13:47 PM EDT by Backstop]
Is there such a thing as a "Dying nobly"?

You better believe it there is.

EDit:

I'm here today typing on this damn keyboard because of the actions of one man.

I was injured and unable to navigate under my own power. This one man helped me move from point A to point B, and placed himself between me and the danger.

One man who gave his life, so I may continue mine.

I watched his kids grow.

I sat at The Citadel graduation of his son. He's now career Army.

I gotta stop You made my eyes leak.

To friends gone, but not forgotten.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:06:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:07:57 PM EDT by 7point62_AssAssin]
I do belive one can die a noble death. To make the conscious decision to face certain death so someone else can be spared from certain death is my definition of a noble death. We all have to die sometime, but the memories of us live on. What will they remember about you? A coward will die the same as a noble man, but they will be rememberd as a coward or just forgotten about quickly.


Edit: AR15.com has taken a philosophical shift as of late
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:07:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Backstop:
Is there such a thing as a "Dying nobly"?

You better believe it there is.

+1

Read a few of the stories here...www.cmohs.org/
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:12:35 PM EDT
Not many of us will be remembered for our accomplishments in life.

Dying a noble death is our one chance at imortality.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:13:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 7:13:49 PM EDT by 2nd_Amendment]
only if there is such a thing as living cowardly.............which I see countless examples of every day.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:23:04 PM EDT
Can you die a noble death without living a noble life? Like if you go through life being completely selfish and useless, but in the end give up your own life so that another can live?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:26:47 PM EDT
Shugart and Gordon.

ARH

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hanibal:
Can you die a noble death without living a noble life? Like if you go through life being completely selfish and useless, but in the end give up your own life so that another can live?



Yes, but that doesn't happen too often.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:31:54 PM EDT
When I went through OCS the walls of the classrooms were lined with plaques. There were for guys who died leading their Marines. Most iirc won the CMOH. That is living and dying nobley.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:36:09 PM EDT
"Everyman dies. Not every man truly lives" --Braveheart promotional poster.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:38:33 PM EDT
[ XXXXX] Yes

[ ] No

[ ] Maybe

[ ] Depends

[ ] I don't care, I got my FEMA debit card
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:43:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:
but death is death,





You made me chuckle...Maybe the Devil is concerned with how men die, but we ought to be more concerned with how we live. If you ever get to talk with your Maker, the point at which you stopped breathing won't make much interesting conversation.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:45:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

Originally Posted By hanibal:
Can you die a noble death without living a noble life? Like if you go through life being completely selfish and useless, but in the end give up your own life so that another can live?



Yes, but that doesn't happen too often.



“And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the Other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verify I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.” LUKE 23:39-43.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 7:47:37 PM EDT
I know a few ways that are not. Like what happened for those 34 people left behind at St. Rita's in New Orleans.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:13:40 AM EDT
"death is death" only in that the final result is the end of life. the thing is in what leads up to the final result.

that italian hostage who said "i show you how an italian dies!" just before those raghead scum shot him is a good example.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:22:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
Everyone dies. We don't want to die, but if the choice is to be a live coward or a dead hero, I think the right choice is clear. I'd rather take a bullet in the chest than one in the back.



Yeah, I know what you are saying, I even agree, except I'd rather take a bullet someplace not lethal (but in the front) and accomplish in life/with life what I WOULD have in death.

I think that is just one of the (no pun intended) "fatal flaws" of te terrorists. Does that make sense?

Yeah, SOMETIMES there IS no alternative, you do the noble thing and die, or you're a coward. I'm just more motivated, I think, to do the noble thing and cheat death.


Originally Posted By postpostban:

Originally Posted By fizassist:
Death, in and of itself, is never noble. The sacrifice of one's life for the greater good, can be.


(Joh 15:13)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.





I think that the passengers who fought the terrorists and caused the plane to crash in a field in Penn. instead of D.C. died a noble death.

I think the jews who died fighting the Nazi's in the Warsaw getto died a noble death. I read all the time on this site about "Sheeple". I think saying I will fight and die rather than surrender and die is noble.



I almost agree, I think their deaths were noble, but I can't quite get to the "noble death", I know it's semantics, but sometimes semantics matter.

Deaths were noble = since they are dead, made a valiant effort - glorifying the act, not the death.

Noble deaths = glorification of death that occured for a noble cause.

I don't know, still messin' w/it.


Originally Posted By hanibal:
Can you die a noble death without living a noble life? Like if you go through life being completely selfish and useless, but in the end give up your own life so that another can live?



I think it's rare, but I think it happens.


Originally Posted By FordGuy:

Originally Posted By Kacer:
but death is death,





You made me chuckle...Maybe the Devil is concerned with how men die, but we ought to be more concerned with how we live. If you ever get to talk with your Maker, the point at which you stopped breathing won't make much interesting conversation.



I guess in a way that's sort of what I've been thinking about. (I've still got a slow burning rage about 9/11 happening - seriously - daily. I know no one who died there, personally, just burns me, but w/o consuming me. The whole anniversary has stirred it up, and the different specials on it got me thinking. However, I DO think how one dies DOES (sometimes) matter, and God DOES concern Himself w/ that on occasion, but I'd agree, more weight is likely given to how one lives. Otherwise, why would this be in the Bible?

(Joh 15:13)
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.




Originally Posted By Keith_J:
I know a few ways that are not. Like what happened for those 34 people left behind at St. Rita's in New Orleans.



Don't get me started. <Grr>
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:20:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:
In watching/taping a LOT of 9/11 related coverage over the past week, I got to thinking. I don't recall exactly which was who, but one of the MANY 9/11 heroes was said to have died nobly. Not much BEFORE this show there was one that has UBL saying that they loved death, and Americans love life, and that was the difference between us (some BS like that). So when the "noble death" phrase came up I was like, "Bullshit! He died a Noble death, but death is death, and it would have been far better for him to have lived (I believe it was in regard to Rick Rescorla (sp) who lost his life trying to evac the Trade Center - not even his remains were found, he was last seen on the 10th floor as he worked his way down to the ground floor.

What are YOUR views on this? I have to agree w/Admetus -

The point of death is death, and the dead are lost and gone. –Admetus (Alkestis, 527)

When I die, I hope it IS a noble death, but, I think better to live nobly than die nobly.

I mean I THINK that the terrorists THINK (in their warped minds) that THEIR death was "noble" even though it was not, because of so many reasons, but mostly, slaughtering innocents. I'm sure Rick didn't think the tower would collapse that QUICKLY, so he probably didn't MEAN to die...

Anyway - other opinions, please, been thinking on this for seveal days now....





I'd rather live than die, especially now that I have a daughter.

But I was looking at your post, and I'm not sure that you get the OPTION of dying nobly or living nobly.

I think, if you are presented with the option of dying nobly, living your way out of that situation would be tough to do nobly.

First responders have my deepest gratitude and awe, they sign on for a life of running the wrong way, ie into burning buildings, into liquor stores during holdup, etc.

It's one thing to have a possible noble death present itself to you, it's totally another to hand death a radio and say "call me when you need me."
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:25:53 AM EDT
Sure, you can die with nobility, IMHO. However, its just MY opinion, subjective. However, for the person dying I'm not sure noble is top of mind thought. It's the living that determine whether a the dead guys death was noble or not.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:30:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:30:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
This dying subject always brings to mind some of the final words of Voltaire

[Priest reading the last rites] Do you renounce Satan?

[Voltaire] This is no time to be making any new enemies.

There is just something cool about retaining your sense of humor on your deathbed.



That's humorous. Thanks. I think I need to change the channel while I'm taping this stuff off of the DVR... just a tad too much methinks. (And I NEED to get these off of the DVR as they are taking up... probably 23-25 hours of space (It maybe has 30 hours.) Had to go to the funeral home tonight as another lady in the church, who I've known as long as I can recall "being" I'm pretty close with most of her kids... just a bit "too much".

But thanks, that's just too funny. (And I thought I was aware of most all of the REALLY "smart-ass" comments of significant historical figures... guess I missed some.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:32:37 PM EDT
Only to the living. The dead don't know if they died nobly or not, they are fucking dead.
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 8:51:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CeramicGod:
Only to the living. The dead don't know if they died nobly or not, they are fucking dead.



Put a lot of thought into that, didn't ya?


HAHA! Just poking fun...
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