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Posted: 1/29/2011 12:44:40 AM EDT
First off NO I am not planing on running from the PO PO... Was just wondering how difference the PIT maneuver is compared to spinning out on ice or a wet road?
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 12:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By spankybear:
First off NO I am not planing on running from the PO PO... Was just wondering how difference the PIT maneuver is compared to spinning out on ice or a wet road?


the only defense to the pit maneuver is to not be a turd bag criminal....
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 12:52:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 2:50:43 PM EDT by viktor]
Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.



Link Posted: 1/29/2011 12:59:23 AM EDT
omg that video is brilliant, needs more explosions and boobs though
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:01:10 AM EDT
horsepower and skill......
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:02:43 AM EDT
It's physics, and rather different from losing it on ice.

You're going forward, the sideways nudge at the rear is enough to break lateral traction and put you out of control fairly quickly. As with ice, steering into the skid may work to retain some control. Having stability control will also help, as might being in a vehicle with good lateral stability and a low center of gravity. http://jianbolu.tripod.com/paper/DSCC2008-2183.pdf is an interesting technical read.

Don't let the pursuing car get near you, or along-side you and go fast (too dangerous for the pursuer to attempt a pit at high speed) At low speed, don't go around corners (so he can clip you as you turn), or only do so when you are sure there's enough distance.

Distance can be achieved by encouraging the pursuing vehicle to back off.

Automatic weapons fire seems to work in most cases.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:10:34 AM EDT
Caltrops will do the job.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:11:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 1:11:52 AM EDT by scottedward58]
With a rear wheel drive vehicle there is no real defense other than not letting anyone into the position needed to pit. With a front wheel drive go against your instincts to let off the gas and accelerate hard to let the front wheels pull the rear back into position.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:15:01 AM EDT
Horsepower and really, really good brakes
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkusp9:
Originally Posted By spankybear:
First off NO I am not planing on running from the PO PO... Was just wondering how difference the PIT maneuver is compared to spinning out on ice or a wet road?


the only defense to the pit maneuver is to not be a turd bag criminal....

You've added NOTHING with your post.



Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:19:35 AM EDT
Sustained high speed.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:19:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wildearp:
horsepower and skill......


+1

The "PIT maneuver" has been a part of dirt track 101 since the 1950s.

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:19:51 AM EDT
Driving backwards in the oncoming lane has always been my policy to avoid this highly productive public safety maneuver.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:29:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bale2011:
Sustained high speed.


This will only work if the department chasing you has a policy of not using the PIT maneuver at high speed.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:35:46 AM EDT
When the PIT is followed up with an appropriately aggressive TVI, there is precious little you can do about it.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:39:28 AM EDT
Actually, there is a very simple and easy to remember way to get out of it.


I will, however, not say what it is, because it defeats the purpose of the technique
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:39:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 1:40:08 AM EDT by Kuraki]
Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow

























Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.


That guy had some skills
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:44:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blazin413:
Actually, there is a very simple and easy to remember way to get out of it.


I will, however, not say what it is, because it defeats the purpose of the technique


Out with it.

This is not a forum of thinly vailed secrets.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:45:51 AM EDT


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.


Link Posted: 1/29/2011 1:48:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 1:49:47 AM EDT by Garage-Logician]
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:01:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...



How the hell does someone roll a car from slamming on their brakes? Sounds like there may have been other contributing factors involved.



Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:04:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...


I've always wondered what the national stats are on people actually outrunning the police. I never hear about it on the news, but I know it happens.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:07:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...


I've always wondered what the national stats are on people actually outrunning the police. I never hear about it on the news, but I know it happens.

It was a past time for the locals back in the town I used to live in. Granted they weren't running because they just knocked off a bank, but they would run nonetheless.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:11:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By packingXDs:

Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...


I've always wondered what the national stats are on people actually outrunning the police. I never hear about it on the news, but I know it happens.

It was a past time for the locals back in the town I used to live in. Granted they weren't running because they just knocked off a bank, but they would run nonetheless.


When I was living in NJ I had a friend idiot that would do it every goddamn time he saw flashing lights. Sometimes they were chasing him, usually not, but he was never caught. It wasn't a news chopper high speed straight line thing, it was a "take the next exit, make as many random turns as possible, and then hide somewhere" thing. In a stock mid-90s Jetta.

That same idiot burned his own house after a cigarette caught a mattress on fire and he tried to solve the problem by running through the house with a burning mattress.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:13:37 AM EDT
Turning into the slide. Think of it like losing your rear-end when driving in the snow. Nothing is guanteed but it might get you out of one, especially if the LEO isn't all over his game.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:17:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By allenNH:
Originally Posted By packingXDs:

Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...


I've always wondered what the national stats are on people actually outrunning the police. I never hear about it on the news, but I know it happens.

It was a past time for the locals back in the town I used to live in. Granted they weren't running because they just knocked off a bank, but they would run nonetheless.


When I was living in NJ I had a friend idiot that would do it every goddamn time he saw flashing lights. Sometimes they were chasing him, usually not, but he was never caught. It wasn't a news chopper high speed straight line thing, it was a "take the next exit, make as many random turns as possible, and then hide somewhere" thing. In a stock mid-90s Jetta.

That same idiot burned his own house after a cigarette caught a mattress on fire and he tried to solve the problem by running through the house with a burning mattress.

These guys would burn rubber right in front of the SO until someone took notice, then bailed. Those kids knew the roads better than most and likes to flaunt it. Many, however, didn't know their cars well enough.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...

Or 'Days of Thunder'




I saw some state troopers practicing the manuver on a closed track. The PROFESSIONAL driver (target vehicle) was able to defeat the PIT but he was in his mirrors and able to slip into neutral when he allowed the persuit unit to make contact.

The average idiot running isn't going to be good enough to defeat the PIT.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:18:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 2:19:27 AM EDT by Sleepy1988]
Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow


Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.



I fucking HATE that dumb cunt anchorwoman. Soooo annoying.

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:20:40 AM EDT
Drive a tank one guy did it
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:25:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By metalhed556:
Drive a tank one guy did it


How did that work out for him?
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:26:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...



How the hell does someone roll a car from slamming on their brakes? Sounds like there may have been other contributing factors involved.





Yeah, there was some of that involved...
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:29:09 AM EDT
Defense? Motorcycle.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:29:12 AM EDT
Don't do the naughties
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:30:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 2:30:48 AM EDT by ffsparky26]
Originally Posted By Mech2007:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...



How the hell does someone roll a car from slamming on their brakes? Sounds like there may have been other contributing factors involved.





slamming the brakes helps load weight on the front tires and makes it easier for the cop to push the rear of the car.

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:30:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By metalhed556:
Drive a tank one guy did it


How did that work out for him?


Shot and killed....seems a tanks worse enemy isn't explosives, just regular old concrete K rails Glad he fucked himself because he would have gone until it ran out of gas....
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:31:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2011 1:34:34 PM EDT by Jonny_Flashbang]

Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow

Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.


That was in Oklahoma City.



The perp was a total loser dirtbag. Had had no skill or brains to speak of. Pure luck is what kept him going for that long.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:34:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow



Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.


That guy had some skills


Maybe more than that video gives him credit for... looks like the chase continued (for a bit).

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:50:33 AM EDT
I'm guessing 4WD and mass would be effective.
I dont see a cruiser being able to do it to a 1-Ton 4WD ttruck with a payload in the back.

Another alternative would be speed....they cant push what they cant catch.

Steering away from the cruiser would make it a lot more difficult as the front wheels would move the front of the vehicle in the same direction that the patrol car is pushing the rear of the vehicle...resulting in the entire car being oriented in more or less the same direction.

Probably other ways to avoid it....including not getting into a pursuit
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 2:56:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Capt-Planet:
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By Mech2007:


Wait until the cop goes in for the kill and then stand on your brakes.




I had a guy try that once. All he managed to do was roll his car. Mission accomplished. Pursuit ended.

It isn't like on Top Gun...


I've always wondered what the national stats are on people actually outrunning the police. I never hear about it on the news, but I know it happens.




During my formative "street racing" days, I did it twice.

Once in my '68 Cougar and once in my '85 Mustang GT.

Never got caught.


Stopped racing after I heard the reports about a local guy that lost control during a race and cut a limo in half, killing most of a wedding party that was on their way to the reception.

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:02:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 3:04:22 AM EDT by Palm]
Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow

Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.


The owner of the vehicle should be happy the CHP recovered the vehicle, but than again it was most likely impounded as evidence, stripped clean at the impound lot, and from the looks of it the car was totaled during the stop. Yep, the vehicle owner owes the CHP a big debt of gratitude for risking their life recovering his car.
The best defence is a good offence. Slam on you brakes at the right time and do a reverse pit on the patrol vehicle. Timing is everything.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:03:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 3:05:19 AM EDT by ch1966]

Originally Posted By macro:
I'm guessing 4WD and mass would be effective.

Winner!

4 Hi or (AWD) and good tires makes the PIT maneuver much harder to pull off.

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:25:27 AM EDT
How would the Arfcomm LEO's pit manuever something like this...something wieghing like 24,000lbs+ or so?

And for the sake of argument you aren't able to use a spike strip?

Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:28:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garage-Logician:
Originally Posted By metalhed556:
Drive a tank one guy did it


How did that work out for him?


Not good
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:32:58 AM EDT
Defensive Pit Maneuver. Difficult to do but I've done it numerous times in training.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:34:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 3:38:38 AM EDT by Sugarfree]

Originally Posted By spankybear:
First off NO I am not planing on running from the PO PO... Was just wondering how difference the PIT maneuver is compared to spinning out on ice or a wet road?

Yes. It's a very simple pull away maneuver. Of course, you have to recognize that you are about to be PIT'ed. When I was taught how to PIT, I was also taught the counter maneuver. I assume LEO's get similar training in both maneuvers.




Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:37:32 AM EDT
I was under the impression that when the police performed a PIT that they got the vehicle sideways and then accelerated thru the offenders vehicle. The video posted looks to me like the police tapped the vehicle and then backed off instead of pushing thru. IMHO it is mighty hard to counter steer when your rear axle is passing your front axle.

Keep in mind that I have never performed a PIT nor been on the receiving end of one so I have no experience with them.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:40:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Palm:
Originally Posted By viktor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-jR6aOoDow

Last slide killed his rear axle. I just have to ask why the hell he chose the path of a criminal versus a stunt/race car driver who gets to play with cool shit all day.


The owner of the vehicle should be happy the CHP recovered the vehicle, but than again it was most likely impounded as evidence, stripped clean at the impound lot, and from the looks of it the car was totaled during the stop. Yep, the vehicle owner owes the CHP a big debt of gratitude for risking their life recovering his car.
The best defence is a good offence. Slam on you brakes at the right time and do a reverse pit on the patrol vehicle. Timing is everything.

If I ever had a sports car stolen, I would prefer it be by a man like this. At least the car would go out being driven as it was meant to be driven. As long as insurance covered it, I'd salute the guy
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:40:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebomber:
Defensive Pit Maneuver. Difficult to do but I've done it numerous times in training.


Accelerate and countersteer, in a nutshell.

Many people instinctively brake, which simply unloads the rear of the car and makes it even easier to rotate via the PIT maneuver.
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:51:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stickfigure:
How would the Arfcomm LEO's pit manuever something like this...something wieghing like 24,000lbs+ or so?

And for the sake of argument you aren't able to use a spike strip?

http://www.joelthegreat.com/wp-content/uploads/tiv1.jpg


10mm FTW
Link Posted: 1/29/2011 3:58:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
Originally Posted By stickfigure:
How would the Arfcomm LEO's pit manuever something like this...something wieghing like 24,000lbs+ or so?

And for the sake of argument you aren't able to use a spike strip?

http://www.joelthegreat.com/wp-content/uploads/tiv1.jpg


10mm FTW


Link Posted: 1/29/2011 4:03:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2011 4:05:30 AM EDT by setlab]
"Someones been playing grand theft auto"
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