Is there a way to stay hidden from thermal and FLIR?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is there a way to stay hidden from thermal and FLIR? (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 12/11/2016 12:54:57 PM EDT

Besides hiding in buildings or being room temp?

Posted: 12/11/2016 12:56:57 PM EDT

[#1]

Glass

Posted: 12/11/2016 12:57:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Posted: 12/11/2016 12:58:57 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Besides hiding in buildings or being room temp?

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From a high-end system with an experienced FLIR operator - no.

You need mass to absorb and slowly disipate the heat energy - like getting underground.

Posted: 12/11/2016 12:59:01 PM EDT

[#4]

Make yourself the same temperature as everything around you and you are gtg.

Until the predator changes his camera type, then you have to make it fake snow or some shit. ETA: Sorta beat

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:00:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
Glass

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Posted: 12/11/2016 1:00:38 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:01:31 PM EDT

[#7]

I think the Eric Rudolph guy who hid in the woods for years used the metallic space blankets when he heard helicopters overhead.

No idea if that would still work with modern thermal.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:01:34 PM EDT

[#8]

Hard cover, same as everything else. Radar is the new thermal, however, hiding from that could get complicated.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:01:53 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Make yourself the same temperature as everything around you and you are gtg.

Until the predator changes his camera type, then you have to make it fake snow or some shit. ETA: Sorta beat

View Quote

Totally beat.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:02:44 PM EDT

[#10]

We used to use space blankets to avoid OH58 when we would pull opfor.

Never got got by them. That can be horrible if it's hot out.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:03:39 PM EDT

[#11]

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:05:24 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://poetrycircle.com/frontpage/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/firecircle2.jpg

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Casting yourself into the fires of mount doom might be counter productive

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:05:29 PM EDT

[#13]

Cur open and hide inside a tauntaun.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:06:24 PM EDT

[#14]

Trees, heavy heat reflective blankets, if the thermal is at ground level, you can lie down in a gutter and your heat will be broken up to an extent. It's not black magic or all-seeing contrary to popular belief.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:08:32 PM EDT

[#15]

Mythbusters hid for a short time from a commercial security system simply by holding up a bed sheet. FLIR is just looking for a different wavelength of light than visible. You block the light they can't see you. Short term is easy, long term problem is your body will heat up your "shield" pretty quickly and become visible.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:12:52 PM EDT

[#16]

We experimented with space blankets and the LRAS, which at least at the time was the best sort of tech grunts had for that stuff to my knowledge.

A thermal blanket will impede or prevent you from being spotted, but if it comes into contact with you it starts heating up and you will show up just like you did in normal clothes essentially. So if you dig a fighting position and stake a thermal blanket over it as a top cover, you will be well concealed.

I believe there is a company now selling a smock/poncho type product which has a thermal blanket in it. This was something my teammates and I discussed, but never tried to implement. The issues I recall us identifying:

1) if there is no barrier between you and the thermal blanket it will still heat up and reveal your position.
2) a cloth barrier is probably not sufficient to prevent heating up the blanket, but it may delay it or cause the blanket to heat up so unevenly and slowly that it would not result in an image which could be ID'd.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:14:52 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
We used to use space blankets to avoid OH58 when we would pull opfor.

Never got got by them. That can be horrible if it's hot out.

View Quote

As an OH-58D pilot, I can confirm this works. It was crazy difficult to spot afghans hiding under blankets in open mountainous terrain.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:18:17 PM EDT

[#18]

It's been many years since I did themography so the tech is most likely way better now.

That said, the surrounding ambient temp needs to TRUMP the body's emitting thermal signature.
Sufficient water submersion can do this. Infrared performance is reduced when moisture is present including fog and rain.
You can calibrate for this to a degree at the cost of signature detection performance.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:22:12 PM EDT

[#19]

What I want to know? Is what the fuck did the OP do that he has to hide!

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:27:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
We used to use space blankets to avoid OH58 when we would pull opfor.

Never got got by them. That can be horrible if it's hot out.

View Quote

Yep. If its reflective, Generally it will work.

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:32:51 PM EDT

[#21]

Posted: 12/11/2016 1:33:26 PM EDT

[#22]

FPNI

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:02:39 PM EDT

[#23]

Tag for later

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:05:04 PM EDT

[#24]

Simple answer, yes.

But it is not simple to perform. I will not elaborate further.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:06:03 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
Glass

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This. Carry a big pane of glass around wit you, deploy as needed.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:11:08 PM EDT

[#26]

Go old school, Golden Fleece.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:40:40 PM EDT

[#27]

As someone with 20 years of flying and 9200 flight hours operating IR/EO systems on multiple aircraft, 8500 hours of that in combat zones, no, you are not going to be able to do anything to hide from a modern IR/EO system being run by a skilled sensor operator.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:43:20 PM EDT

[#28]

I believe the assain perk keeps you hidden from thermals and uavs

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:49:33 PM EDT

[#29]

I've been told that heavy, waxy leaves can help. Mountain laurel, rhododendrons, thick evergreens, etc

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:50:19 PM EDT

[#30]

The cheapest handheld ones can pick up footprints.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:51:11 PM EDT

[#31]

Hide in a thermal pool that is 98.5 degrees or so. Or, if you are on a lava flow where the surface temp is that as well you can hide.

Around here, I'd be inclined to hide in lava tubes (caves in lava flows). There are quite a few near here.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:54:16 PM EDT

[#32]

Depends on a lot of variables.

Are we talking about hiding from a low end FLIR handheld or an Apache?

Are you in dense woods or open desert?

Do you have to move?

Is an airborne eye in the sky guiding people to look for you?

I suggest looking at a lot of thermal vids to learn the spectrum of what can be done.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:57:22 PM EDT

[#33]

theres a video that's been posted here of a guy testing, making, and selling thermal avoidance capes... for lack of a better term. They did seem to work and also seemed expensive.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:58:35 PM EDT

[#34]

Covering yourself in horse semen.

Posted: 12/11/2016 2:59:16 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
As someone with 20 years of flying and 9200 flight hours operating IR/EO systems on multiple aircraft, 8500 hours of that in combat zones, no, you are not going to be able to do anything to hide from a modern IR/EO system being run by a skilled sensor operator.

View Quote

The human aspect is always there. When you're going on your 10th hour in the box because no one gives a crap about fighter management for uav operators, how effective is that operator?

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:01:52 PM EDT

[#36]

Harry Potter Invisibility Cloak.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:04:24 PM EDT

[#37]

Pull a snorkel from your bag and jump in the nearest lake?

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:09:30 PM EDT

[#38]

I would try quickly moving blood into a small portion of your body by vigorously massaging the area with the most potential for growth.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:10:02 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://www.therobotspajamas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Predator-Mud.jpg

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Attached File

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:11:32 PM EDT

[#40]

Glass. I work on high end Flir systems. They can't see through glass. Unless you touch it, then you are fucked.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:14:23 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Pull a snorkel from your bag and jump in the nearest lake?

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the water break up will give you away

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:20:06 PM EDT

[#42]

Heavy as hell, but why wouldn't a bear hide work? Talk about insulation......

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:20:18 PM EDT

[#43]

Hug a tree.

Oh, wait, never mind: there are a lot of Talibs that found out that didn't work.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:20:49 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

The human aspect is always there. When you're going on your 10th hour in the box because no one gives a crap about fighter management for uav operators, how effective is that operator?

View Quote

Very true. I have only operated the IR/EO on manned aircraft and only the AC-130U had the endurance to give me 10 hours or more in the seat.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:21:33 PM EDT

[#45]

Kill the guy looking through the camera. Kill the next guy who picks up the camera.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:25:48 PM EDT

[#46]

I don't think either will detect you if you are dead.

Maybe you'll need a cool-down period, but after that you'll be good to go.

Posted: 12/11/2016 3:35:55 PM EDT

[#47]

You can beat thermal easy- but you have to be stationary. Not hard to make a debris shelter that will hide you.
But now you are risking the chance of being seen by the naked eye because your sitting in a big-ass debris hut, and you can never leave. Ever.

So make the debris hut roomy, maybe try to put in a second story.