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Posted: 8/10/2005 4:23:29 PM EDT
Over the years a layer of mud and leaves about six inches thick has accumulated on my little beach. I was wondering if there was some kind of pump that could suck it up and deposit it in the garden or something, a rise of about fifteen feet or so.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:25:46 PM EDT
this is on a beach or on the bottom of the lake?

the lake my grandpa built years ago is like that everywhere. its starting to fill in on the north end where the inlets are too. seaweed is starting to grow on more and more. basically what we're gonna do (between now and 20 years from now) is drain the lake, let it dry for a couple years so its just the creek, and then bulldoze it all out (somewhere).

his is only a 2 acre lake (some may call it a pond) but thats definitely too big for any suction device.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:26:17 PM EDT
no but theres a way to pump protein out of a jake
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:28:51 PM EDT
This is going back a few years.... Like when I was a kid, but my dad rented a pump with about a 15 horse gas engine on it and what looked like reinforced fire hose to pump the mucky bottom off of our beach at the lake. Pumped it up on the shore for fertilizer. Smelled bad for about a month.

He would start the pump and get in the water with the take up tube and using his foot stir up the water / mud into the hose. My job was to spread the goo around on shore.

It was big and low preasure but high volume output.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:29:45 PM EDT
A Dredge...we use them, allthe time to clear channels here, but is expensive
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:34:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 4:36:11 PM EDT by Lakeguy]

Originally Posted By soccermike7:
this is on a beach or on the bottom of the lake?

the lake my grandpa built years ago is like that everywhere. its starting to fill in on the north end where the inlets are too. seaweed is starting to grow on more and more. basically what we're gonna do (between now and 20 years from now) is drain the lake, let it dry for a couple years so its just the creek, and then bulldoze it all out (somewhere).

his is only a 2 acre lake (some may call it a pond) but thats definitely too big for any suction device.



How big of a lake/pond are you talking about? Depending on the size, lake draw down may be a very viable alternative if you are dealing with a small pond. Over time if the detritus is allowed to build up,
the health of your pond/lake will deteriorate. The pond will also become heavily stratified(temperature layering). Dissolved O2 levels will drop which will in turn will lead to fish kills

More information from your end would be useful in helping out
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:48:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CattleDog:
This is going back a few years.... Like when I was a kid, but my dad rented a pump with about a 15 horse gas engine on it and what looked like reinforced fire hose to pump the mucky bottom off of our beach at the lake. Pumped it up on the shore for fertilizer. Smelled bad for about a month.

He would start the pump and get in the water with the take up tube and using his foot stir up the water / mud into the hose. My job was to spread the goo around on shore.

It was big and low preasure but high volume output.



That sounds like exactly what I need.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:51:08 PM EDT
Vermeer makes this thing called an Evacuator... Not sure the model number and exact details of it, but it would pull pit run out of a trench, rocks and all. Ill bet that would solve all your mud problems.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:51:46 PM EDT
Rodent. What you want is a trash pump. Not a standard water pump, but something that is good for solids, kinda like the pump(albeit smaller) that they use in septic trucks.

I am looking for a link for ya. Be back in a min...
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:55:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lakeguy:

Originally Posted By soccermike7:
this is on a beach or on the bottom of the lake?

the lake my grandpa built years ago is like that everywhere. its starting to fill in on the north end where the inlets are too. seaweed is starting to grow on more and more. basically what we're gonna do (between now and 20 years from now) is drain the lake, let it dry for a couple years so its just the creek, and then bulldoze it all out (somewhere).

his is only a 2 acre lake (some may call it a pond) but thats definitely too big for any suction device.



How big of a lake/pond are you talking about? Depending on the size, lake draw down may be a very viable alternative if you are dealing with a small pond. Over time if the detritus is allowed to build up,
the health of your pond/lake will deteriorate. The pond will also become heavily stratified(temperature layering). Dissolved O2 levels will drop which will in turn will lead to fish kills

More information from your end would be useful in helping out



It's a huge lake, there's no drawing it down. Although the level fluctuates a couple feet over the course of a season. The bottom is generally very rocky, but I have a rare natural sand beach running the 104 feet of my property. Over the last few years, though, a layer of muck has accumulated, and seaweed is growing in it and holding it together. I've been trying to shovel it up into five-gallon buckets and haul it to the garden, but I'm not making much headway. The muck/seaweed is kind of a "band" running parallel to the shore from about three feet of water to maybe six feet depth. Along the shore itself there's still sand because the waves keep the seaweed from growing, and in deeper water I don't think there's enough light for seaweed. The seaweed seems to be what's holding the muck together and keeping it in place.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:55:20 PM EDT
When we looked at this for our lake, we wanted a diaphram type trash pump. This is better than the impeller pump for most 'stuff' though you don't want to irrigate your lawn with it, because it does not have the lifespan of an impeller pump.

www.hondapowerequipment.com/pumcon.asp
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:03:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:07:36 PM EDT
In Fairbanks, a lot of the lakes are nothing but submerged gravel beds. They have twoers set in the middle and drlines running ou to it that scoop up the gravel.

Might have a hard time selling ordinary mud to people to justify the cost, though.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:16:41 PM EDT
The diaphram trash pumps seem like exactly what I need. I'll see if I can rent one first, but it might even be worth buying. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:55:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 6:58:35 PM EDT by soccermike7]
here are pics of MY gpas lake (note, these are not the property of whoevers thread this is)


this is facing the shallow end. the blue barrels are on a small peninsula, so about 1/6 of the lake is parallel to that and back behind it.






this is more facing teh other direction (with a little bit of the lake in the middle not shown)




by the way: on the full length-practice MCAT i took, one of the passages in the verbal reasoning section talked about the stratification temp and O2 levels during the different months, how it affects the fishies, etc. it was a pretty cool passage. one of the ones i did better on b/c i enjoyed it.......as opposed to those philosophy ones that i HATE!

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:06:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
The diaphram trash pumps seem like exactly what I need. I'll see if I can rent one first, but it might even be worth buying. Thanks.



A word of caution...

Equipment, like guns, grow and multiply. Once you get "the right tool" it finds uses for itself, then calls its friends.
.
Years ago, when I was a little tyke, my dad bought a riding lawnmower, and an air compressor. Now, we have a backhoe, industrial loader, 90gpm air compressor, paint-booth, and media cabinet... and so on. I don't see it ending soon. And yes, they all pay for themselves, not just sit around.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:32:13 PM EDT
No but there is a way to pump it out of your ..........Never mind!!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:33:26 PM EDT
No but there is a way to pump it out of your ..........Never mind!!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 10:02:17 PM EDT by Keith_J]
Sounds like a perfect application of a hydraulic trash pump. Most industrial models are very heavy, cast iron which makes it difficult to handle. Mud doesn't flow so you need to move the pump as you progress.

Now there is a trash pump that handles mud just fine and is quite lightweight. Made by Stanley, the hinge/hardware people. Urethane body so it is light. You also need some hose, I suggest a good, lay-flat because rigid hose is HEAVY. And 2 hydraulic hoses, about 50 feet long, depending on your HPU. I suggest at least one set of zero loss QD's to make it handy. Make sure the hoses don't leak.

Now for the HPU. You need 5 Hp, minimum and you need a gas-powered model. Look for logsplitter equipment. 2000 PSI is plenty, 1800 will work just as well. Mount the HPU in a boat and moor it with lines from the banks to lay out a grid. Run the lay-flat hose to a level area with a double silt fence to capture the muck. Pack straw between the two silt fences. You might need to stop the dredging operation if the silt pond fills more than halfway as the pressure will cause seepage of silt.

For hydraulic oil, use Enviro Rite if you value the fish or have tree-hugging neighbors. This oil is certified non-toxic to fish and despite your best measures, you will have leaks. Believe it or not, it actually sounds like you might have compliance issues with the Clean Water Act. Using the above procedures will help with compliance but it isn't complete.

Hose-handling is going to be the biggest problem. Do NOT use rigid hose. And depending on the silt, the lay-flat will eventually wear out. But if you want to save money, get a large power steering pump from the junkyard, hook it up to a 8 Hp gas engine and make a tank for the hydraulic fluid. You will not need a big tank, just a gallon but be careful when priming the lines as it will drain the tank. Once the lines are full, the zero loss QDs will keep the prime. See the many DIY sites on the web for home log splitters. They will fill in the details.

Get abrasion resistant hoses for hydraulics. They will be abused. Stay away from the lightweight hoses as they kink.
Here is the pump: TPO3www.stanley-hydraulic-tools.com/Hand%20Held/Pumps.htm

For the weeds, you need to kill them before you can do hydraulic dredging. Coppersafe is a good brand. It is harmless to fish but will kill snails, clams and the like.

Dammit, I keep on editing this response...make double damn sure to secure the hoses well. This includes "whip-stops" on all connections. A hydraulic "fuse" in both lines is another good idea. These stop flow if a hose breaks.

One final note. The TPO3 Stanley comes with a perforated plate for the base. If you shroud this baseplate so all water/muck must flow through the holes, you will get better performance but you might have to clean the plate often.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:12:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CSM:
Equipment, like guns, grow and multiply. Once you get "the right tool" it finds uses for itself, then calls its friends.
.
Years ago, when I was a little tyke, my dad bought a riding lawnmower, and an air compressor. Now, we have a backhoe, industrial loader, 90gpm air compressor, paint-booth, and media cabinet... and so on. I don't see it ending soon. And yes, they all pay for themselves, not just sit around.



If you lived a little closer, I'd be hanging out at your house a lot...
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