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Posted: 9/20/2009 5:09:32 PM EST
I was talking about this with a coworker the other day and wasn't sure of any. How would that turn out, for the shooter, if you shot an intruder with a full auto?
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:12:15 PM EST
A good shoot is a good shoot. Won't look good to the jury though.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:12:22 PM EST
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:13:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.



Why did the HK rep have an AC556?



Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:14:14 PM EST
As long as it was legally registered I don't think they could do anything to you....the civil trial by his poor mourning next of kin and their shyster lawyer would of course paint you and a psychopath who wanted to kill someone and had the full auto just for that purpose...and heaven forbid if the dirtball you killed was a minority because they would also try to paint you as a racist.....this combined with a nice liberal jury and you would be giving everything you currently own and will ever earn to said dirtballs family for depriving them of their pride and joy.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:17:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:17:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 5:19:59 PM EST by cbsaf]
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.


It was a Florida gun store owner who stopped two burgulars using an M16 and a S&W 76 submachinegun.

Here is the link. It was Harry Beckwith. http://gunowners.org/op0730.htm
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:18:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:18:35 PM EST
In Georgia the weapon used is not an element in the prosecutions requirement to disprove an affirmative defense.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:19:13 PM EST
If I ever have to use deadly force to protect my home, it will most likely be done with an SBR's AR-15.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:45:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 6:24:37 PM EST by BillofRights]
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.


This- we had an extensive thread years ago. The gun dealer didn't have any legal problems, iirc, he shot the hell out the car, but used some restraint with the perps.

The HK rep did face prosecution, but I think he walked after much expense. It is a fascinating story.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685749/
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:49:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 5:50:33 PM EST by Dru]
Originally Posted By cbsaf:
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.


It was a Florida gun store owner who stopped two burgulars using an M16 and a S&W 76 submachinegun.

Here is the link. It was Harry Beckwith. http://gunowners.org/op0730.htm



Harry's actually did it a few times.....

Good fellow.... RIP 'ole harry!
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:49:30 PM EST
From what I gathered the guy from HK was pretty much a victim of prosecutorial persecution.
The charging DA wanted to nail his hide to the wall as an example and gave it a shot.
Fortunately the twice victimized citizen had the financial backing to prevail. If he had been
a poor soul living paycheck to paycheck he likely would have ended up as someones prison bitch.

Link Posted: 9/20/2009 5:53:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2009 5:54:25 PM EST by 444]
Originally Posted By BBossman:

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.


No, it was an AC556
If I remember correctly, the AC556 was his personally owned gun. He worked for HK but owned the AC556 himself and used it.
He drove to the HK facilty because he knew it had a locked gate, but the bad guys followed him in.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:03:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By 444:
Originally Posted By BBossman:

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.


No, it was an AC556
If I remember correctly, the AC556 was his personally owned gun. He worked for HK but owned the AC556 himself and used it.
He drove to the HK facilty because he knew it had a locked gate, but the bad guys followed him in.


I was thinking he also procured the AC556 to do testing in comparison for HK firearms.

The Perps were some sort of gang dealing with bikers (He had cut one of them off earlier on ,and they wanted to kill him due to that fact.)

6rds of 223 put him down............I'm surprised that only 1 round hit the bad guy in the Beckwith story (out of 30 or so?)
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:04:47 PM EST
I'd imagine mowing down a home invader with an MP5 would be awesome.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:09:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By 444:
Originally Posted By BBossman:

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.


No, it was an AC556
If I remember correctly, the AC556 was his personally owned gun. He worked for HK but owned the AC556 himself and used it.
He drove to the HK facilty because he knew it had a locked gate, but the bad guys followed him in.

Was a test sample, I believe. If memory serves correctly, he was not familiar with the weapon, and meant to put a round into the attacker, but instead put six rounds into the attacker.

Either the dead guy or another person in his vehicle also had a revolver with several rounds fired out of it, but the HK guy did not hear any shots being fired during the chase, nor did his girlfriend/wife, who was in the vehicle with him.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:11:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:15:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By SonOfNorway:
I'd imagine mowing down a home invader with an MP5 would be awesome.

Do you now?

You think a complete life changing incident that would affect not only you, but also your family, is awesome?
You think killing a man would be awesome?

We'll see when you end up with buck fever.

You sicken me.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:15:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.



Why did the HK rep have an AC556?





Don't know but thats a story I've heard several times.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:19:39 PM EST
I'm sure LEO's use NFA items in deadly force encounters all the time. I personally haven't been through that type of situation, but was informed of a recent officer involved shooting (that was a good shoot) that raised a lot of questions by the grand jury. There wasn't questions about whether the shoot was good or not, but rather in regards to why the gun was the way it was (including accessories). So the police have to answer to legal speculation just as often as everyone else, if not more so. Long story short, if everything is legit (including the shoot), you are good to go.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:20:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By cbsaf:
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.


It was a Florida gun store owner who stopped two burgulars using an M16 and a S&W 76 submachinegun.

Here is the link. It was Harry Beckwith. http://gunowners.org/op0730.htm


Thats not the one I'm thinking of. I'm pretty sure there was another one involving a MAC-10. I think two perps were killed.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:21:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.



Why did the HK rep have an AC556?





Don't know but thats a story I've heard several times.


Gary Fadden is a salesman for HK, and among the rest of their firearms, he sells machine guns. In the truck with him is a competitor's weapon he has acquired to test, a Ruger AC556, the selective-fire assault version of the .223 Mini-14. He grabs it now as he throws open the truck door, hoping to hold them off at gunpoint. lie knows his fiancee can't make it to the building's door now, and he screams to her to get down on the floor of the Ford.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:22:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By 444:
Originally Posted By BBossman:

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.


No, it was an AC556
If I remember correctly, the AC556 was his personally owned gun. He worked for HK but owned the AC556 himself and used it.
He drove to the HK facilty because he knew it had a locked gate, but the bad guys followed him in.


Correct, and aftereward he switched his truck gun to a semi auto M1 Carbine as he thought the prosecution was because of the NFA status and wanted a lower profile in the future.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:24:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By SonOfNorway:
I'd imagine mowing down a home invader with an MP5 would be awesome.


Statements like that last forever on the Internet. Should you find yourself in front of a jury after a shot - a statement like that can be used to demonstrate your mindset, attitude and casual approach to such a shooting and could make your defense much, much harder.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:33:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By CWO:
Originally Posted By SonOfNorway:
I'd imagine mowing down a home invader with an MP5 would be awesome.


Statements like that last forever on the Internet. Should you find yourself in front of a jury after a shot - a statement like that can be used to demonstrate your mindset, attitude and casual approach to such a shooting and could make your defense much, much harder.


I agree..........Too many internet tough guys, I can't think of a single experience where someone killed another person and said it was enjoyable (Except in a few cases of war, and were pretty rare statements.)
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:47:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Originally Posted By 444:
Originally Posted By BBossman:

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.

Seems I remember the HK guy using an HK, it happened in the parking lot of HK when they were in Chantilly, VA if my rememberer is remembering correctly.


No, it was an AC556
If I remember correctly, the AC556 was his personally owned gun. He worked for HK but owned the AC556 himself and used it.
He drove to the HK facilty because he knew it had a locked gate, but the bad guys followed him in.


I was thinking he also procured the AC556 to do testing in comparison for HK firearms.

The Perps were some sort of gang dealing with bikers (He had cut one of them off earlier on ,and they wanted to kill him due to that fact.)

6rds of 223 put him down............I'm surprised that only 1 round hit the bad guy in the Beckwith story (out of 30 or so?)


That is different from the version of the story I heard.
I distinctly remember it because like most others, I was interested to know why he was using a Ruger instead of an HK. I have read the story a couple times on various boards so I guess, like everything, the story changes with each telling.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:50:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By glock21guy:
There have been at least two that I've heard of.

One with a gun dealer and a MAC-10 and one with a rep for H&K had a gang of thugs follow his car and later when they caught up with him, he used a AC556 to kill one IIRC. I believe both needed to spend some good $ to defend themselves from charges.


I know for a fact you are correct on the second one.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 6:58:53 PM EST
the MAC 10 story is the only legal NFA item used in a crime, IIRC. It was owned by a cop who was moonlighting as a dirt bag. He killed his buddy and then claimed that it was an accident. someone no here has the link I am sure-I read it here.
Link Posted: 9/20/2009 7:02:32 PM EST

Ayoob has pointed out that using a Class III weapon in self defense may, more often than not, get you dragged before a grand jury. Even in jurisdictions where deadly force incidents against criminals are a wash to prosecutors (i.e. friendly toward good citizens exercising their right to self-defense). It's likely to come out in the good guy's favor, but still a visit to a grand jury is headache that should be avoided.

However, if a NFA firearm is the closest/only thing available at that time, it's better to go to court than be graveyard dead. Use it if that's the case.
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