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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:41:15 AM EDT
[#1]
NO
Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:44:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Look at it this way.
The Johnson's like to party, they retired with 1,000,000 million in their accounts and spent it all in 15 years, then they had to go into a nursing home. The Jones' retired with $250,000 they were frugal, never spent a dime, and managed to keep that same 250k 15 years later when they went into the nursing home. The truth is means testing for medicaid isn't fair because they are only looking at your earnings and assets at a single point in time. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:49:28 AM EDT
[#3]
Obvious.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:51:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Hell yes it FSA!
Retirement savings are just that, savings to take care of you later in life and not to make your kids rich. Don't want mom or dad to spend all of "your" inheritance on a nursing home? Then move them in with you, hire home health to help out. Don't want to or can't then let them spend their money to be taken care of. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:52:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:55:23 AM EDT
[#6]
I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:56:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes.
ETA: It's not illegal, but it is FSA behavior. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:57:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. This. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:57:36 AM EDT
[#9]
They set the rules. Your a sucker if you don't play by them.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:58:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA. One could argue that the reason these things are so expensive is that government assistance has created a business model with inflated costs (much like college). If the government assistance program created the problem, are we not being double taxed by not using it......? |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:01:05 AM EDT
[#11]
I would be more inclined to say FSA if they didn't have the death tax waiting on you at the end of the game
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:01:51 AM EDT
[#12]
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:04:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:04:34 AM EDT
[#14]
If it's legal, do it. Nothing immoral about understanding the law and taking advantage of it.
Medicaid is a FSA program, but if they force me to pay into it for my whole life I'm damn sure going to use it if I need to. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:09:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's legal, do it. Nothing immoral about understanding the law and taking advantage of it. Medicaid is a FSA program, but if they force me to pay into it for my whole life I'm damn sure going to use it if I need to. Isn't the question of, should I hide/dispose assets so I can take welfare, the very opposite of need? And as the OP highlighted, 10 years in assisted living cost the person $1M. I doubt very much that many people have ever paid that type of money in. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:13:44 AM EDT
[#16]
This is directly equivalent to deductions on taxes.
It's not a "loophole", it's following the rules. As long as it doesn't put too much inconvenience and doesn't cause problems in other ways (like, what if you liquidate your stuff and then don't need medicare) then why is there a problem? |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:15:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is directly equivalent to deductions on taxes. Umm, no. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:20:59 AM EDT
[#18]
I will add that my mother was a social worker at retirement homes for about 30 years. She has many stories that go both ways as far as what's the "right" thing to do.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:21:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. Medicaid is welfare for people without assets. You should have money saved for your future health care/long term care needs. If you burn that down paying for health care, you can then go on Medicaid welfare program. I other words, you pay your debts before you start giving money to your kids. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:31:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#21]
As long as you play by the rules, it is all OK. It is no different than using tax laws to your advantage. All you are doing is playing by the rules they made up. If they want different rules, then they can change 'em.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:41:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. Pretty much this, IMO. Treat as a business decision. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:42:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're well past the point of no return. Either game the system for everything you've paid into or be a sucker because someone else is going to spend your tax dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. I really hope you don't fall into that line of logic.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:43:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. This |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:46:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really hope you don't fall into that line of logic. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. I really hope you don't fall into that line of logic. It sucks but that's life. I can sit on my ass and save my pennies that I get to keep and live a shitty life or I can spend my money and live better all while having the government take care of my ass after I paid them everything. No matter what, they get my money. I might as well get some of it back. We're.20 Trillion in the hole. Ain't no sense crying over spilled milk. We're broke and done. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:49:25 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. this.. they make the rules, so they cant complain when you work around those same rules.... you would be stupid not to try to do the best by yourself and your family.. Yep, everyone else uses the rules to their advantage, why not you. Same as Trump using all legal means to pay as little tax as possible...as does everyone else. And liberal fuckers like Buffet, and Gates, you bet your ass they don't pay full boat. But the think you should.... Fuck em. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:50:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One could argue that the reason these things are so expensive is that government assistance has created a business model with inflated costs (much like college). If the government assistance program created the problem, are we not being double taxed by not using it......? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA. One could argue that the reason these things are so expensive is that government assistance has created a business model with inflated costs (much like college). If the government assistance program created the problem, are we not being double taxed by not using it......? Its all a scam, a backdoor inheritance tax....they get your money one way or another... |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:52:46 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I pay taxes. You bet your sweet ass I "paid into it". Because no matter what, I have to pay and some fucking welfare rat will spend my money. So I'd rather break the system if possible and get what I can. It sucks but that's life. I can sit on my ass and save my pennies that I get to keep and live a shitty life or I can spend my money and live better all while having the government take care of my ass after I paid them everything. No matter what, they get my money. I might as well get some of it back. We're.20 Trillion in the hole. Ain't no sense crying over spilled milk. We're broke and done. And that is why we are $20T in the hole. "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing people he doesn't exist" should read "The greatest trick the government ever pulled was convincing people they are owed from the Treasury." Worst yet, is its not the EBT crowd that is going to bankrupt this country. Its going to be the geriatrics.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:52:55 AM EDT
[#29]
The philosophical underpinnings of this discussion are the problem here:
If I worked hard my whole life, saved money and maxed out my retirement funds, I might retire with a few million dollars. I paid taxes and social security on all of that (either at the time of saving, or upon withdrawal from IRAs/401k's). So, I was responsible, paid my full taxes, etc. And now, I have to spend all of that before I get the benefits of Medicaid (paid for by all my taxes over the decades). On the flipside, I could choose to not save any money, cash out my retirement accounts whenever I move jobs, party while the sun shines, etc. When I get old, I have no money. I benefit from Medicaid (funded by the people who did earn money and pay taxes). The person who saves and is responsible gets penalized. The irresponsible person who doesn't save gets a free ride on Medicaid. Since I'm planning to be in the first category, I fully intend to use the tax and Medicaid laws to my benefit. I paid $7,347 to SS this year in my paycheck withholdings. So far, I've paid $18.5K to federal tax so far this year. I hope to get back as much of it as I can. (And that's ignoring the double taxation issue of the estate tax) |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:55:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its all a scam, a backdoor inheritance tax....they get your money one way or another... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA. One could argue that the reason these things are so expensive is that government assistance has created a business model with inflated costs (much like college). If the government assistance program created the problem, are we not being double taxed by not using it......? Its all a scam, a backdoor inheritance tax....they get your money one way or another... And you become "they" as soon as you cash in. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:55:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA. Au contrair. FBHO's wealth transfer program is FSA. Playing by their rules to minimize their FSA redistribution is fair. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:57:12 AM EDT
[#32]
Get your mind right: we're all FSA now.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 11:58:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The person who saves and is responsible gets penalized. The irresponsible person who doesn't save gets a free ride on Medicaid. That is the entire fucking point of Medicaid/SS. You are suppose to be broke and shortly dead before you see a dime. That is the only way the system can work. But people get entitled.  |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:00:02 PM EDT
[#34]
You'd be a sucker to not take advantage of the of the system that is put in place to take advantage of you. The system is untenable better use it while you can to get what you can because at some point it's all going to come crashing down and IMO the sooner the better.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:01:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And you become "they" as soon as you cash in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would venture to say utilizing a wealth transfer program is the very definition of FSA. One could argue that the reason these things are so expensive is that government assistance has created a business model with inflated costs (much like college). If the government assistance program created the problem, are we not being double taxed by not using it......? Its all a scam, a backdoor inheritance tax....they get your money one way or another... And you become "they" as soon as you cash in. Well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it....but I am sure that when it comes time for me, this country will be a shell of its former self at best, probably more like Mad Max world. And I'll also say, it costs a million dollars because its all a scam. The .gov and their meddling have spiraled medical costs out of control...Medicaid and Medicaire have killed it. That is why health care in unaffordable anymore. Blame the .gov and buying votes from the FSA for all of this. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd be a sucker to not take advantage of the of the system that is put in place to take advantage of you. The system is untenable better use it while you can to get what you can because at some point it's all going to come crashing down and IMO the sooner the better. I couldn't find a better example of self fulfilling prophecy if I tried. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:07:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it....but I am sure that when it comes time for me, this country will be a shell of its former self at best, probably more like Mad Max world. And I'll also say, it costs a million dollars because its all a scam. The .gov and their meddling have spiraled medical costs out of control...Medicaid and Medicaire have killed it. That is why health care in unaffordable anymore. Blame the .gov and buying votes from the FSA for all of this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And you become "they" as soon as you cash in. Well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it....but I am sure that when it comes time for me, this country will be a shell of its former self at best, probably more like Mad Max world. And I'll also say, it costs a million dollars because its all a scam. The .gov and their meddling have spiraled medical costs out of control...Medicaid and Medicaire have killed it. That is why health care in unaffordable anymore. Blame the .gov and buying votes from the FSA for all of this. As a voter utilizing such programs, you are "they". You are the FSA. Your are the government you deserve. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:11:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a voter utilizing such programs, you are "they". You are the FSA. Your are the government you deserve. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And you become "they" as soon as you cash in. Well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it....but I am sure that when it comes time for me, this country will be a shell of its former self at best, probably more like Mad Max world. And I'll also say, it costs a million dollars because its all a scam. The .gov and their meddling have spiraled medical costs out of control...Medicaid and Medicaire have killed it. That is why health care in unaffordable anymore. Blame the .gov and buying votes from the FSA for all of this. As a voter utilizing such programs, you are "they". You are the FSA. Your are the government you deserve. I am not using shit right now, so I am NOT THEY. Don't be retarded. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:13:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am not using shit right now, so I am NOT THEY. Don't be retarded. Of course not! But when the time comes, its OK to cash that check. After all, Mad Max may never come. Thus its OK to partake. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:15:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course not! But when the time comes, its OK to cash that check. After all, Mad Max may never come. Thus its OK to partake. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am not using shit right now, so I am NOT THEY. Don't be retarded. Of course not! But when the time comes, its OK to cash that check. After all, Mad Max may never come. Thus its OK to partake. Well, if I do, you are welcome to call me FSA...but until then, them's fightin' words. 
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:23:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Before making that decision look at the quality of "care" old folks on Medicaid receive in nursing homes. You get exactly what the government is willing to pay for.
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:33:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NO Financial planning, 'rules' are a 2 way street. use them or get used. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 12:35:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. It will continue until the government adopts some China-esqe policy of holding kids legally responsible for their ailing parents or starts rationing healthcare. |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 1:21:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. So does everyone else including the op's old man, what difference does it make if his pop blows all his money at Vegas before he needs assisted living or let the govt drain his accounts? |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 1:22:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will continue until the government adopts some China-esqe policy of holding kids legally responsible for their ailing parents or starts rationing healthcare. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. It will continue until the government adopts some China-esqe policy of holding kids legally responsible for their ailing parents or starts rationing healthcare. So that and see how many people renounce their relation to someone |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:08:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd be a sucker to not take advantage of the of the system that is put in place to take advantage of you. The system is untenable better use it while you can to get what you can because at some point it's all going to come crashing down and IMO the sooner the better. There is the core of the problem. Get mine while I can mentality. You said it right in your post "take advantage" has more than one meaning. Social security, welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, etc were designed to be a social safety net and not a way of life or provide for your every need nor allow you to live in the lap of luxury. I have been poor in my life and it's a hell of a motivator if you give a shit! Motivates you to work hard, get an education, etc. If you don't give a fuck it doesn't motivate you to do anything other than sit back suck off the government tit and "get yours" |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:20:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're well past the point of no return. Either game the system for everything you've paid into or be a sucker because someone else is going to spend your tax dollars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A former retired co-worker of mine, who has many health problems, has transferred all his assets to his kids for awhile now. He knows about the 5 year deal and either has, or will soon, pass the 5 year mark. While he is not wealthy no one wants to see what they have left, their house and cars lost due to age. So his kids get his assets and i get his medical bills. Sounds wonderful. This set up a trust now. With you as the trustee. |
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