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Posted: 10/22/2001 7:41:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:46:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 7:43:28 AM EDT by garandman]
We at war, ain't we??? Killing is part of war, right??? Is here inherently a more valuable "human being" ( and I DO use the term VERY loosely, mainly becasue he hasn't yet been scientifically proven to be a marsupial of the rodent class) than his foot soldiers that we have NO moral dilemma in killing??? I think not. We should have cancelled Saddam's subscription to [i]Life [/i] ten years ago. I would prefer we take him alive. But dead is OK too. Personally, i say we corner him in a cave, and then detonate 2-3 tactical nukes within the cave internals. Buried in tons of dirt is a FINE final resting place for dirt like him.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:46:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 7:47:28 AM EDT by OLY-M4gery]
He as a person decided to declare "jihad" on the US. Generally I don't think the US should be killing people. I think he gave up that protection when he decided he was big enough to take on the US. He isn't being tried or sentenced, he is the enemy in a war he declared, on the US particulary it's civilian population. It probably isn't "right" that's a high standard, but it would be reasonable.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:49:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 7:46:29 AM EDT by Pacodutaco]
Screw him! Hey Bin Laden [-!-]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 7:53:38 AM EDT
yah, we should like capture him and put him before a UN war-crimes tribunal who will hopefully sentence him to life in prison with no chance of parole for at least 5 or 10 years.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:19:04 AM EDT
Partly, the question goes to what the purpose of this "war on terrorism" is. Is it justice, or is it ensuring american national security? If the former, shouldn't the goal be to capture all of these people alive (aknowledging that some may die in the process) to put them on trial? If it's national security, then killing all kinds of people may be necessary, but then we've thrown the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" out the window - which is okay with me, but then I wish people would stop talking about justice.
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I agree. FDR never talked about bringing Tojo or Hitler to justice. For a historical parallel: What do you think would have happened if Pershing had caught Pancho Villa?
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:35:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof: Personally, I think the answer is DUH! But I'm concerned about the implications of deciding to actively try to kill him rather than to capture him. Partly, the question goes to what the purpose of this "war on terrorism" is. Is it justice, or is it ensuring american national security? If the former, shouldn't the goal be to capture all of these people alive (aknowledging that some may die in the process) to put them on trial? If it's national security, then killing all kinds of people may be necessary, but then we've thrown the notion of "innocent until proven guilty" out the window - which is okay with me, but then I wish people would stop talking about justice. Practically all of my own information about Bin Laden and his followers comes from western news or western governments - and I have no idea whether or not he is guilty, and I have no heard the other side. Maybe there's evidence linking Iran, and we've never heard about it, because Bin Laden is a better and more viable target. I don't know. I am just somewhat concerned about the notion that the US Government can effectively sentence an individual (albeit a foreign national) to death, without a trial, without presentation of a defense, and without a jury. I guess my question is - have we already abandoned some of the principles that make America great (equal justice for all, innocent until proven guilty, etc.) in this "war"
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This is not justice. This is war. I worry more about the implications of having him alive and mprisoned than actively seeking to snuff him out. I do not want to see that turbaned fucker on parade as a martyr for every liberal bleeding heart high thinking socially conscious peacenik in this world. I want him quietly killed, burnt, and his ashes scattered to the four points of the world. I hope this isn't ambiguous. shooter
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:41:00 AM EDT
If we imprison him, Hijackers will take over planes, buildings, anything they can get their hands on. We will become like Isreal and I'm not talking about gun rights. Anybody remember somebody would take hostages and demand the release of Palestinian criminals. Same thing went with IRA in England, Rebels in Peru, etc.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:41:08 AM EDT
Take Bin Laden prisoner, sue him for everything he owns, and establish a huge fund for victims families. Kill the Egyptian physician guy who started Egyptian Jihad and who is really the brains of Al Qaeda. He's the older guy who speaks first on those videos before OBL.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:43:29 AM EDT
Don't these Jihad people live in England. Maybe they should help us by cleaning the terorists out of their own country. And while they're at it they'll have an excuse to take care of the IRA.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:44:04 AM EDT
Line them all up in a dark and damp cell, torture them, give them a transfusion to keep them alive, torture them some more then when they think it's over we start all over again. Then, about three weeks later we drop them into the shark tank at Sea World.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:46:08 AM EDT
I don't believe out SpecOps people are in a prisoner taking mode right now. With the CIA given the go ahead and all clear to cap him........consider it done. CAP THAT BASTARD AND QUICK.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:50:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 8:52:33 AM EDT
I dunno. Was it [b]'right'[/b] to kill Admiral Yamamoto during WWII? [b]Damn straight![/b] Eric The(ShouldWeHaveKilledHitlerIn1933?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:17:06 AM EDT
We need to find and execute Bin Laden...in the field. He should never be brought back to the world for any sort of trial by any court. Talk about a circus! If you think the OJ trial was a farce! Just imagine Alan "The Crazy Commie" Dershowitz trying to save this bastard! The Egyptians tried that with Bin Laden's deputy some years ago...if you remember. The guy was imprisoned, escaped and went on to do more mischief. Even in jail, Bin Laden is a very dangerous man. Killing him in the field would be a natural, logical and strategic goal of our armed forces. Not for revenge (RIGHT!) but for all the right reasons. If you cut the head of Al Qaeda and the Taliban off, you gravely injure the organism. They will not cease to exist but they will both be terribly weakened. This is WAR...not a court case. The rule of law does not apply here. He IS the enemy. We find the enemy, we grab him by the nose and we kick him in the ass! We kill the enemy to achieve our stated goals. Bin Laden is just like a Taliban troop in that we hunt them down and kill them...we must hunt him down and kill him. He is just as guilty as the men who 'jacked the planes, sent the poisoned letters, and who continue to create mischief worldwide. We must exterminate them ALL for this world to be a safer place. NO TRIAL...NO JAIL. As I've said before: Capture Bin Laden...and his accomplices. Make them dig their own graves. Put them before a firing squad. Bring out the hogs and then explain to the terrorists them that they will be shot, dumped in the graves and the hogs killed, gutted and dumped in on top of their sorry corpses. Do exactly that. Make sure adequate imagery records are made of the executions. Send copies to every one of the surviving islamic terrorists worldwide, with a simple warning: "You are next." [pissed][soapbox][pissed] [pyro][devil][50]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:19:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:21:19 AM EDT
Is killing Bin Laden right? as opposed to ... what? your right we could put him in a small cage and roll him out for display during each session of congress and let him "endure freedom".
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:25:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 9:22:13 AM EDT by AZ-Shooter]
This is war, we have been attacked by an enemy foriegn to our land. We not only have a right to retaliate against this enemy, we have a responsibility to our nation to do so. The hijackers were members of Al Queda, they where loyal unto death to Al Queda. So too are Bin Laden and the Taliban. They are all no more, and no less, than soldiers in the field participating in a war they will never win. There is a higher level of leadership in Al Queda. Until we hit them, the war we have embarked upon will not end. Killing a leader amongst the enemy is simply a necessary element in the overall battle we face. The fates of Bin Laden and those foolish enough to find his company have been cast. What impact that has on the enemies overall ability to fight has yet to be seen. But don't allow yourselved to be ill-informed...this thing doesn't end with the death of one man, there is much more leadership available to Al Queda and plenty of recruits to shore up the ranks lost in Afganistan. The thing we need to remember when it gets rough is that in the end...they cannot run, they cannot hide, they will never know final victory. They will be eliminated from the face of this Earth with as much compassion as was bestowed upon those men, women, and children they slaughtered in NYC. [-=(_)=-] It aint over til it's over baby!
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:26:15 AM EDT
I think you're right...Death is too good for him.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:28:44 AM EDT
That scene from hannibal with the hogs comes to mind as a fitting end.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:40:35 AM EDT
terminate with extreme prejudice.....this is war, not a trial [frag]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:43:08 AM EDT
Yes. I do fantasize of a situation where we capture him and Ed McMahon picks a American to administer his fate. That would be tight!!! But let's cap his ass the moment we see him and move on.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:46:31 AM EDT
I think that he should be shown the error of his ways and if given the opportunity he will repent and run for a senate seat in New York. Wait, who are we talking about? Bin Laden? Oh, kill that bastard and cut his nuts off and stuff em in his mouth. ------------------------- Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:48:09 AM EDT
He said he will die for his cause and go into paradise with 21 virgins. Let him prove it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:49:57 AM EDT
This "war" was iniatially declared by OBL & his talliban cohorts in '91, on their first attempt on the WTC. We just accepted his invitation after his 9-11 run at us. Kill 'em, drench 'em in pig blood & drag their sorry carcasses through the streets of Mecca for all the world to see.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:55:21 AM EDT
Bin Laden set the ground rules for this fight and from what I can see, the most important rule seems to be that there are no rules. I think that he should be executed in the field as quickly as possible. We don't need him portrayed as a martyr suffering the justice system. He decided that all bets were off on September 11 now he can live, or rather die, with that decision.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 9:58:05 AM EDT
I don't want to see him go to trial cause he'll get Johnny Cochran & never serve a day in prison. Although the thought of him landing in general population & sharing a cell with the largest, lonliest, most dominant homosexual guys in the nation does put a smile on my face. I also don't want us to publicize his death because then he will be a martyr. They will have enough of those over the next few yrs. I do think that the SF fella that puts 55 grns of lead in his melon deserves the CMH. He needs to quietly make his way to Allah. Then we need to go after everyone who holds up his picture as thier personal hero, as they are obviously either a terrorist or a wannabe (is there a difference?).
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:00:33 AM EDT
woohoo...I love the hawks on this board BUT.... It ain't war....congress has not said yep. It is a nice little military action that has full approval and we sent soldiers after him not police officers. I don't think this is another Panama where the US illegally used soldiers to act as international police. And I know we have had several actions that weren't declared. I really hope we have the data to back up our actions and I think the STUPID ben ladin deserves to be smoked just for coming on camera and spouting off his mouth about the great Satan. Shall we go back to the old West for a moment.....Why'd ya hang him?.....He just weren't right......
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:03:22 AM EDT
OBL needs to disappear. Simple as that...just disappear. No fanfare. No press conference. No chest thumping. Just evaporate from media pages and screens around the world. And maybe every two or three months let slip a "communique" saying he is in hiding from his own people after renouncing his faith. Or some such.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:09:01 AM EDT
F-ck bin Laden and F-ck anyone who stands with him.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:09:36 AM EDT
"Is it right?" To which I reply, "If it feels so right, it can't be wrong." [beer] I used to read about Romans who would defeat some faraway barbaric country and seize some of the enemy leaders to bring back to Rome. In the Triumph that followed, the enemy leaders would be paraded in chains through the city streets, along with splendid examples of barbaric wealth and other captives, for the cheering mob to leer at. Upon reaching the end of the parade, the offending foreign leader would be ritually strangled (for whatever d@mn reason). As I used to read these accounts, it used to strike me as outlandish and un-called-for. "What the heck were those Romans thinking, doing that?!" I have now come full circle, and want us to engage in the same behavior. The only thing we should do extra is wrap him in pig-guts for the TV cameras. ------- "Hi-jack this, Fags."
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:12:50 AM EDT
Kill? I thought we were just entering the country to bring OBL a medium well steak and a Mercedes.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:16:34 AM EDT
Nope we were going to bring him a dentist, but the dentist chickened out.....
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:30:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar50troll: Yes. I do fantasize of a situation where we capture him and Ed McMahon picks a American to administer his fate. That would be tight!!! But let's cap his ass the moment we see him and move on.
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That is great. I wanna win. Sorry gang I am not gonna whack him for at least 2 yrs. I gots me sum plans. Oh the fun one could have - legally! Makes me salivate. Ooops I am showing my true self.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:38:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:49:11 AM EDT
DK-Prof, that's the anomally that is us. I believe the government about half of the time, and yes, I do pick the information want to believe. That's part of what makes this country great. Did Usama bin Laden pull of this atrocity? I THINK so, but the gov. is holding their proof very close. In the end, it doesn't matter whether he did this one or not. He has outstanding warrants for previous acts, Kenya and Nairobi, and he should have been eliminated for those acts alone. That being said, we should force feed that fothermucker a pound of bacon before snuffing him out!
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:55:38 AM EDT
woohoo hello DK....I didn't state it as strongly and after getting my head kicked in on friday, I tried not to let my absolute distrust of politicians show so baldly.....but yeah I have reservations about a crime committed in the morning and that afternoon having a full list of suspects and cries of "Unleash the dogs of war!" And the absurdity of "WAIT we have to get buy-in from Bora-Bora before we do this"
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 10:56:26 AM EDT
Let the Russians have him.....I think they are looking for a little payback. We just want a video of what they do to him. We won't get our hands dirty, and we'll be able to point fingers at the Russians for being barbarians, should it ever come up...:) Damn, I should have been a politician...:) Dropping them in the Shark tank was a good idea, but I'm afraid there's some things even a shark won't eat.... Rich
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:13:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2001 11:15:41 AM EDT by ISMO]
Of course I don't trust the govt completely, heck I don't trust anyone outside of a very small circle much at all. I do feel that anyone who threatens me, my family, and my country with death deserve to be dead themselves. Will we ever know 100% if he is responsible for WTC/Pentagon? Not unless he's dumb enough to say that on camera. For a very long time most countries in the world have hated the US, which I can handle since usually it's got some basis. It's when they go from hatred to the killin that I have to say enough is enough. OBL has at the least trained thousands to kill, not just anyone, but specifically Americans. As an American that kinda gets my agent orange acting up. Is OBL & the Taliban the only ones? Nope. This war/police action/military action/covert action/scout camp will be long and drawn out. It's likely to escalate to a religous war, which we really don't want. But, if we sit on our hands & hold peace rallies will it quit? I don't believe so. Unfortunately we are backed into a corner where we have to show that we will hunt down the people who plan & support such acts. I don't see an alternative, but welcome any & all ideas. Honestly, I am the last guy in the world who wants to get in a fight, or see people die. I would just as soon we only used guns at the shooting range. But, that's not reality. We didn't start this fight, and by god I'll fight to the last drop of blood to keep my family from dying in 100k tons of rubble. Like the guy said on the TLC documentary abt snipers. "Because there's just some folks who need to die". OBL is one. People who partied in the streets on Sept. 11, 2001 are some more. Anybody else who would see my 6 yr old's school firebombed is another. Religion, nationality, sexual orientation, etc got nothing to do with it. It's about survival at this point.
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:15:16 AM EDT
DUH! [heavy]
Link Posted: 10/22/2001 11:37:43 AM EDT
Long and painful torture, Make him beg for death, keep him that way for many years.
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