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Posted: 4/20/2007 6:10:54 AM EDT
What if the recent events at VT end up giving us prettry much everything we every wanted? A national CCW, the end of gun free zones(with only a few exceptions like courthouses and detention centers) and total castle doctrine protection where ever you are without fear of civil suits or being arrested ect ect.

Is it worth the lives lost on Monday? They say liberty is bought with the blood of patriots and tyrants but still, this isn't what I had in mind and doesn't feel right to get our victory.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:15:14 AM EDT
[#1]


I think you frame your statements incorrectly

In response to your question, Yes.

Because you don't hear about those couple of people who die because they couldn't defend themselves here and there. Look up the law case Warren vs. DC.

The VT shootings are not our fault. This guy wouldn't have been stopped by any gun control (so agrees Bill Clinton on Larry King Live) but he would have been stopped by an armed student with a CCW.

This victory came not only at the cost of these student but thousands of others. It took this big, sensational, emotional story to cast the light of truth onto the matter
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:16:30 AM EDT
[#2]
I was thinking about this on Monday. I don't think it's "worth the lives", mainly because those who died did so unwillingly. If the 32 had been some of US who were willing to sacrifice our lives for said result, that would be worth it. Having said that, I think if the scenario you lay out comes to pass, we can at least know those who were murdered at VT on Monday did not die in vain. (am I going in circles here?)  
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:18:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:21:10 AM EDT
[#4]
No, it's not worth it. While their deaths stand as a great example of why people need to be able to defend themselves freely, if you could turn back the clock to 6AM Monday morning and eliminate the threat before he had a chance to get to work, I'm sure any of us would do that.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:28:26 AM EDT
[#5]
You're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

Was allowing the death of 32 people worth it to prevent  law-abiding citizens from defending their lives?

How many more will have to die to keep the libtards feeling "safe" from the very people who obey their stupid laws?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:35:07 AM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
What if the recent events at VT end up giving us prettry much everything we every wanted? A national CCW, the end of gun free zones(with only a few exceptions like courthouses and detention centers) and total castle doctrine protection where ever you are without fear of civil suits or being arrested ect ect.

Is it worth the lives lost on Monday? They say liberty is bought with the blood of patriots and tyrants but still, this isn't what I had in mind and doesn't feel right to get our victory.


You have to look at the big picture.  It is a horrible tragedy that 32 people were killed at VT, but think about how many in the future will not die because of the ability to defend themselves.  How many people every day are robbed or raped at the point of a weapon?  How many murders happen every day?  That's probably the reason most of us fight so hard for gun rights.

Personally, I think that if 32 people's lives save thousands more, it's worth it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 6:54:40 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
You're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

Was allowing the death of 32 people worth it to prevent  law-abiding citizens from defending their lives?

How many more will have to die to keep the libtards feeling "safe" from the very people who obey their stupid laws?


Damn straight. This is not about it costing us 32 lives to regain our stolen right to self defense, it's about the cowards on the other side of the issue sacraficing 32 lives due to their own fears.  Go ask them what it's worth to "feel" a (unfortunately proven false) sense of security.  
Who knows how many events like this could have been stopped if only someone involved had not been stripped of their right to self-defense? People may not know what they would do in a similar situation, but thanks to those who fear guns, you sure as hell know what you can't do.

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:10:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Nope.  I would not say any debate that's settled with words is worth lives to win.

Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:14:06 AM EDT
[#9]
To answer your question: YES.

But if you think this will be the catylist for sweeping pro-2A rights you're dead wrong.

Remember, the libtards control the media and therefore control the sheeple.

In the end, we'll get fucked harder and with less lube.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:17:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:22:21 AM EDT
[#11]
These folks didn't die in a cause. They were sacrificed on the alter of liberalism. They were killed by ignorance of liberals and their hatred of guns and freedom. Place the blame directly on the heads of those who disarmed them.

Does this frame the debate on gun free zones? Yes.

I only wish that liberals who stopped those laws were the ones who got killed instead of their victims.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:27:08 AM EDT
[#12]
I refuse to drag those 32 people's bodies around in the street to make a political point.(like gun grabbers are quick to do)


Is the 2nd worth fighting for? Yes.
Is the 2nd worth dying for? Yes.

To what end? At what cost? Each individual will decide that for themselves...and once the outcome is finally decided every human being will have to live with the decisions of those individuals.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:42:36 AM EDT
[#13]
I look at defense against the criminal element as only an ancillary part of the 2nd Amendment. The two primary reasons it was put into the Bill of Rights was to protect us from outside invasion, which, along with two oceans, has worked quite well, and to protect the citizenry from tyrannical government. Losing 32 innocent students at once is definitely a hard pill to swallow, but remember that all the homicidal criminals could not even begin to kill as many as governments have. Take Russia for example. If they had 10 Virgina Tech-type murders PER DAY for 171 YEARS, they would still have fewer murders than were perpetrated against the Soviet people by Joseph Stalin.

But, of course, liberals love Uncle Joe.......he gave the people he didn't murder free health care.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:44:55 AM EDT
[#14]
The lives are already spent. So whether it is worth it or not doesn't matter. Time to make sure no more lives are wasted.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 7:46:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes and no

Yes its 'worth' it if we get more of our 'rights' back, but also No because if we hadnt lost those 'rights' in the first place, their may have been much less death
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:01:46 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
I was thinking about this on Monday. I don't think it's "worth the lives", mainly because those who died did so unwillingly. If the 32 had been some of US who were willing to sacrifice our lives for said result, that would be worth it. Having said that, I think if the scenario you lay out comes to pass, we can at least know those who were murdered at VT on Monday did not die in vain. (am I going in circles here?)  


That's the distinction I was trying to make.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:03:44 AM EDT
[#17]

 It's worth the perpetual stream of future lives saved.

All the lives that 'Gun Free Zones' have cost up to now are nothing but a tragic sunk cost.  
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:04:02 AM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was thinking about this on Monday. I don't think it's "worth the lives", mainly because those who died did so unwillingly. If the 32 had been some of US who were willing to sacrifice our lives for said result, that would be worth it. Having said that, I think if the scenario you lay out comes to pass, we can at least know those who were murdered at VT on Monday did not die in vain. (am I going in circles here?)  


That's the distinction I was trying to make.


Does it matter if you choose the situation or it chooses you? Doesn't make it any less significant. So why the need for the distinction?
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:08:41 AM EDT
[#19]
With great sadness over the loss of life, I would have to say yes if it expands CCW so that law-abiding citizens are more able to defend themselves.

I feel sad saying it, but it must be said.

These young people may or may not have been helped by someone with a CCW, but they certainly wouldn't have faired any worse. CCW should have already been allowed, it should not have had to take something like VT.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:11:52 AM EDT
[#20]
What victory?

Political? Fuck them all. They can't come up with a way to secure our safety, in fact, they gave up and admitted they can't do it.

It's necessity, pure and simple. We're fighting for our lives.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:12:30 AM EDT
[#21]
You have this backward. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THESE LIVES. IT IS DONE. What happens next determines our fate.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:16:34 AM EDT
[#22]
And people actually don't believe the frog is being slowly boiled in the pot... pfft....




Would it be worth the lives lost in an insurrection to preserve our civil liberties if the .GOV manages to universally suspend our RKBA?


Was it worth the lives of those lost in the War for Independence?

ETA: Unfortunately, it takes the loss of life for idiots to understand the importance of certain things.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:17:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Senator McCarthy sees this massacre as a victory.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:23:47 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:
What if the recent events at VT end up giving us prettry much everything we every wanted? A national CCW, the end of gun free zones(with only a few exceptions like courthouses and detention centers) and total castle doctrine protection where ever you are without fear of civil suits or being arrested ect ect.

Is it worth the lives lost on Monday? They say liberty is bought with the blood of patriots and tyrants but still, this isn't what I had in mind and doesn't feel right to get our victory.


It's ridiculous to say that the price paid, 32 lives, in the context of a horrendous mass killing is "worth" it.

Could good unintended consequences come from a horrible event?  Clearly yes.

Is it worth it?  Hell no.

I don't think it was your intention but the question is inflammatory in itself.
Link Posted: 4/20/2007 8:48:26 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:
Senator McCarthy sees this massacre as a victory.


Congresswoman/Representative McCarthy ... please don't give this beast more power than she's already got.
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