Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/2/2005 7:51:55 PM EDT
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.

Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality?

I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:53:05 PM EDT
That's just satan posessing you.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:54:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 7:54:21 PM EDT by david_g17]
we have a religion forum.

ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=135

this will likely get moved.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:55:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.



so you have more faith in yourself than you do in the one who created you?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:55:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
we have a religion forum.

ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=135

this will likely get moved.



+1

Love to answer, the question, but this ain't the place.

I'll just ask this -

PLease cite Scripture verses that back up your position, and we can discuss Otherwise this will just be YET ANOTHER case of pooled ignorance
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:55:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.

Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality?

I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me.



God only helps those that help themselves. I’m fairly agnostic btw.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:56:20 PM EDT
Nope, you can never have enough. Just like guns.

Ben
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 7:56:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 8:02:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 8:07:40 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By samsong:
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.

Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality?

I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me.



I'm guessing you've NEVER experienced a REAL trial of your faith.

I have twice, and found my own faith WHOLLY inadequate, and in reality quite puny.

And that I don't really control jack scratch.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 8:04:37 PM EDT
i believe you ca never have enough faith...god bless
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:07:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By samsong:
I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.



so you have more faith in yourself than you do in the one who created you?



Yep, that's what I said.

Oh, wait, no it's not - you just put those words in my mouth.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:
I'm guessing you've NEVER experienced a REAL trial of your faith.



Then you'd be guessing wrong.

Us Christians are a judgemental lot, aren't we?

My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:19:48 PM EDT
Faith in God does not mean you lose your free will. The goal is to allign your will with God's will.


ANd everything comes from God and I wish I had enough belief to trust Him in everything but I do not.

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 9:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into.



That's not faith, that's mis-interpititation of teh message.

Two totally differant things.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:13:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:06:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.



What better object for one's faith?


Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality?


It is our expression and creativity that reflects us being made in the image of the ultimate Creator.

Free will gives you a choice of two directions:

1) Submitting to God's will and guidance. Believe me, this does NOT mean you have to give up your individuality! He created you to be an individual and wants to help you be the best you you can be.

2) Rebelling against God, and the consequences that accompany such a decision.


I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me.


Again, faith needs an object it is directed toward. It doesn't exist apart from having faith in someone/something. Where better to place your faith as a Christian?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:48:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:13:09 PM EDT
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.

Where's their free-will? Where's their creativity and originality?

I should add this: I'm a Christian, but believe that I have enough free-will to control many things around me.


------------------------------

Continue your faith with G-d, and your faith in mankind.


Jewish Ed
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into.



What you are describing here would NOT be described as faith by any orthodox beleiver I know.

ALL the beleivers I know DEMAND a high degree of personal responsibility with faith.

I will agree that God gets "blamed" by PROFESSING Chrsitians (key concept : PROFESSING) for lots of stuff He has no part in, but that is NOT a matter of too much faith. Its a matter of wanting to avoid blame.

In my experience, when people try to avoid personal responsibility on a continuous, large scale basis, I immediately begin to question the validity of their salvation experience, as ANY reading of Scripture makes admitting, confessing and forsaking our personal wrong doing THE key component of salvation.

A person who blame shifts either hasn't experienced the salvation of God, or has forgotten that salvation is ALL about taking responsibility for our sin.



Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
Continue your faith with G-d, and your faith in mankind.


Jewish Ed



I have faith in mankind........'s sin nature, and rebellion against God.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:03:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I'm frightened of the hyper-religious. It's not just the obvious "Holy Warrior" baloney, I am made nervous by people who throw all their faith in The Creator.



The ones that I am leary are those who feel that they have been directed by god to do this or that. Many bad things can be masked and/or justified under this cloak. Otherwise, whatever floats your boat... (just don't introduce creation into science class...)
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 6:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 6:40:03 PM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
The ones that I am leary are those who feel that they have been directed by god to do this or that. Many bad things can be masked and/or justified under this cloak. Otherwise, whatever floats your boat...



I can imagine that seems weird.

But we beleive the Bible is the Word of God, and thru it, God commands certain things of us.

But never fear -

Most of the commands are along the lines of:

Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

If he strikes you on one cheek, let him give you a matching pair.

If you see your brother in need, and have an extra coat, give it to him.

And a hundred other ways of showing him the love of God.

Interstingly, MOST of the malicious acts people use the cloak of "Christianity" for are EXPRESSLY prohibited behavious in God's Word.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:01:43 AM EDT
Too much faith in God?

Reminds me of a story that I've heard several times.

A very devout man was stuck on the roof of his house in a flood. As the waters rose around him, another man in a rowboat comes by and offers to rescue him. The man says, "No, I'll be okay... God will deliver me..."

The waters continued to rise and a while later, a raft comes floating by with some people on it. They offered to throw him a rope and rescue him from the roof. Again, the man says, "I'll be fine... my God in heaven will deliver me."

As the waters rose to but a few inches blow covering the entire roof, a helicopter came by. The pilot boomed from the loudspeaker, "I'll drop you a ladder and rescue you..." Again the man yells to the pilot... "GOD WILL RESCUE ME FROM THIS!!! I HAVE FAITH!!!"

Of course, the man drowns. Because of his faith, he make it into the gates of heaven, and when he finally is greeted by God himself, the man asks, "God! I know everything is your will, but I had faith and you didn't save me!"

God replies, "I sent you a rowboat, a raft, and a helicopter... what more did you expect?"
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:13:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into.



Anybody with that attitude would show a critical lack of understanding.

I am responsible for my decisions and the consequences thereof. While I am forgiven for the sins I commit, I cannot escape the results here.

Let me give you an example.

A friend of mine is a pastor. He told me about a guy who came in to speak with him. This guy explained that he and his girlfriend had stepped over the line of intimacy and they were afraid she was pregnant. He asked, "Would you pray with me that she wouldn't be preganant?"

My friend replied, "No. God's not in the business of doing abortions to save your reputation. However, I will pray that he will give you the strength and guidance for you to shoulder your responsibilities and do what's right."
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:20:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By samsong:
My concern is with people who give up their sense of personal responsibility, the authority that The Creator allows us to assume, so that we can put off on him the problems we get ourselves into.



That's not faith, that's mis-interpititation of teh message.

Two totally differant things.


Sgat1r5



And of course, anybody trying to tell the misinterpreter that they are wrong is treated as evidence that they are right, because God told them there would be tests of faith.
Stupid vicious little cycle.



You can tell me what "is" means all day long, but "is" means "is" no matter what you say.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:21:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:22:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:26:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Christians - How is it that somebody sees "test of faith" or some such, and decides that they have to ignore common sense solutions to their problems because of some odd idea that using those common sense solutions would be showing that they don't have enough faith in God?
Where does an attitude like that come from?



I don't know.

I use common sense & experience as much as I can.

The faith part comes in when the solution is beyond my abilities or defies common sense.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Christians - How is it that somebody sees "test of faith" or some such, and decides that they have to ignore common sense solutions to their problems because of some odd idea that using those common sense solutions would be showing that they don't have enough faith in God?
Where does an attitude like that come from?



I don't know.

I use common sense & experience as much as I can.

The faith part comes in when the solution is beyond my abilities or defies common sense.



+1 on Brohawk.

Any Christian that ignores common sense will live a rather poor Chrsitian life.

I could give an entire raft of verses that enlist common sense as primary tool for beleivers.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:56:08 PM EDT
You still have your Free Will, but understand that God knows ahead of time which you will choose, even if you don't. And He may well place obstacles in odd places.

This does not detract from the fact that you have Free Will, just adds to the awesomeness (is that a word?)
of His power.

Given an infinite number of possibilities of choices, He has worked them all out ahead of time
so He knows what will happen regardless of which you choose.

Choose wisely
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:32:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:37:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 3:39:26 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By garandman:
I could give an entire raft of verses that enlist common sense as primary tool for beleivers.


Would you post them? I think I need to slap a believer



Glad to. It'll be this weekend, prolly in a thread all its own.

Like anyone else, us beleivers need slapping from time to time.



And I'd rather it be done by another human, than by the hand of God.


(If you want to IM me some specifics, I can include verses applicable to the situation you face . Just change the names to protect the innocent, please. )

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:57:37 AM EDT
Yes, it is possible.

Usually faith does no harm, and sometimes does good by creating a positive mindset and indicating a moral direction.

But an excess of faith can prevent people from solving problems in a practical way or seeking appropriate medical treatment.

At it's extreme, "too much faith" makes people incapable of thinking for themselves, and easily led into "jihad", drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, waiting for the space ship behind Hale-Bopp, etc.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:14:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Yes, it is possible.

Usually faith does no harm, and sometimes does good by creating a positive mindset and indicating a moral direction.

But an excess of faith can prevent people from solving problems in a practical way or seeking appropriate medical treatment.

At it's extreme, "too much faith" makes people incapable of thinking for themselves, and easily led into "jihad", drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, waiting for the space ship behind Hale-Bopp, etc.



I agree that "people of faith" often act irrationally, but it is NOT a Biblically correct faith that causes that.

I'd more say its the 'attention whore' factor - "look at me, I have more "faith" than you." Which is unBiblical.

Once again, a true Chrsitian is one who follows the teachings of Christ.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:01:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
snip

But an excess of faith can prevent people from solving problems in a practical way or seeking appropriate medical treatment.

At it's extreme, "too much faith" makes people incapable of thinking for themselves, and easily led into "jihad", drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, waiting for the space ship behind Hale-Bopp, etc.



It's exactly this scenario that I envisioned when I made my initial post. Nice work, Rodent, Doublefeed, SgtAR15, and Garandman, and several others whose names (but not words) I have forgotten.

So, THIS is why they removed the religion from GD, huh? Mo' betta responses, more intelligent debate, more civilized discussion all around!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:04:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:07:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
So, THIS is why they removed the religion from GD, huh? Mo' betta responses, more intelligent debate, more civilized discussion all around!





I'm liking it.

Top Top