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Posted: 8/20/2017 7:46:45 PM EDT
I see folks say they believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc. Those same people think it's silly to believe in "an old man who lives in the sky". Is it possible to reconcile those two points of view?
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:48:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Anything is possible if they are dumb enough.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:52:09 PM EDT
[#2]
God is a spirit. It makes no sense to believe in spirits but not God. I personally believe .
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:55:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Northern Tool + Equipment - "Gremlins"
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:58:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Well, plenty of people that believe in god think all other religions are wrong and the idols are false, so it makes sense it would also work the other way too.

If you believe in the supernatural then it's not a huge stretch to only believe in certain supernatural stuff and not others.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 8:04:00 PM EDT
[#5]
The bible warns of messing with spirits.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 8:06:29 PM EDT
[#6]
People will believe anything.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 8:07:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 8:09:34 PM EDT
[#8]
If spirits are living dead than what sustained the being?
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 8:18:59 PM EDT
[#9]
Just a different magic book.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:04:20 PM EDT
[#10]
This thread has potential.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:05:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Examine the actual evidence for either and use that to inform your decision.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:36:22 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Examine the actual evidence for either and use that to inform your decision.
View Quote
"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:43:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I see folks say they believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc. Those same people think it's silly to believe in "an old man who lives in the sky". Is it possible to reconcile those two points of view?
View Quote


Evidently it is possible to believe that - you said you see people do it in the first two sentences.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:47:13 PM EDT
[#14]
The Man of Lawlessness 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (New Testament)
…9The coming of the lawless one will be accompanied by the working of Satan, with every kind of power, sign, and false wonder, 10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie... 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.…

Saul and the Medium (Witch) of Endor 1 Samuel 28:6-20 (Old Testament)
6When Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by prophets. 7Then Saul said to his servants, "Seek for me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her." And his servants said to him, "Behold, there is a woman who is a medium at En-dor." 8Then Saul disguised himself by putting on other clothes, and went, he and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, "Conjure up for me, please, and bring up for me whom I shall name to you."…9But the woman said to him, "Behold, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off those who are mediums and spiritists from the land. Why are you then laying a snare for my life to bring about my death?"…

10Saul vowed to her by the LORD, saying, "As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing."…11Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" And he said, "Bring up Samuel for me."…12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice; and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, "Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul."…13The king said to her, "Do not be afraid; but what do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a divine being coming up out of the earth."…14He said to her, "What is his form?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped with a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and did homage.…15Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" And Saul answered, "I am greatly distressed; for the Philistines are waging war against me, and God has departed from me and no longer answers me, either through prophets or by dreams; therefore I have called you, that you may make known to me what I should do."…

16Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has departed from you and has become your adversary?…17"The LORD has done accordingly as He spoke through me; for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, to David.…18"As you did not obey the LORD and did not execute His fierce wrath on Amalek, so the LORD has done this thing to you this day.…19"Moreover the LORD will also give over Israel along with you into the hands of the Philistines, therefore tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. Indeed the LORD will give over the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines!"…20Then Saul immediately fell full length upon the ground and was very afraid because of the words of Samuel; also there was no strength in him, for he had eaten no food all day and all night.…
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:48:26 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
God is a spirit. It makes no sense to believe in spirits but not God. I personally believe .
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Unless you are claiming that the definition of "spirit" is "God," your logic is flawed.  If God is one of many possible spirits, then it would indeed be possible to believe in a spirit without believing in God.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:50:13 PM EDT
[#16]
If spirits exist in another dimension or reality and we could prove it,  they would become a part of the natural world.  It still would not prove God.  There's a lot we don't know.  It's ok to say we don't know or don't understand something.  The danger comes from those who claim absolute knowledge.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:51:29 PM EDT
[#17]
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

      -Keyser Soze
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:56:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:08:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Who believes that "an old man that lives in the sky?" Never heard of such a thing before. Where did you pick up this nonsense from? God is not a man and never was. Nor does or has he ever lived "in the sky." A lot of ignorance going on here from whomever says this.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:12:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Examine the actual evidence for either and use that to inform your decision.
"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
It's not a term that is subject to interpretation. Facts do not change because we wish them to do so.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:17:40 PM EDT
[#21]
How can you believe in spirits and not believe in The Holy Spirit? To accept spirits that walk among us and not acknowledge God, is having the Spirit quenched. How can you have that at all? It's like, I have ketchup but there is no mustard in existence.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:25:23 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:


"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
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The book says the book is true.

Case closed.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:29:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:32:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Who believes that "an old man that lives in the sky?" Never heard of such a thing before. Where did you pick up this nonsense from? God is not a man and never was. Nor does or has he ever lived "in the sky." A lot of ignorance going on here from whomever says this.
View Quote
"God" always lives in inaccessible places. Above the clouds, outside the solar system, outside the galaxy, outside the universe, outside of all space and time.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:34:09 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
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There definitely are Atheists who believe in ghosts (including Western Atheists).

Traditional Chinese people are also quite superstitious, even though they don't believe in God/Gods (they're technically Atheists).
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:34:29 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I see folks say they believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc. Those same people think it's silly to believe in "an old man who lives in the sky". Is it possible to reconcile those two points of view?
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
I've experienced a handful of events that I cannot explain. I'm reasonably certain that there is a scientific explanation.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:35:06 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Anything is possible if they are dumb enough.
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Like pro abortion Christians......
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
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Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:42:08 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
Atheism isn't some all encompassing position. It's just do you believe X is real (or not)?

Chinese people are technically Atheists, even if they burn money for the spirits of their ancestors, believe in ghosts/etc.

You actually have to do the work of critical thinking. [insert groan at the thought of actually having to think independently and not have it given to your pre-packaged by people who would've thought cameras were witchcraft]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:42:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:42:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
View Quote
Yep. They follow the evidence and adjust accordingly.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 11:49:51 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Atheism isn't some all encompassing position. It's just do you believe X is real (or not)?

Chinese people are technically Atheists, even if they burn money for the spirits of their ancestors, believe in ghosts/etc.

You actually have to do the work of critical thinking. [insert groan at the thought of actually having to think independently and not have it given to your pre-packaged by people who would've thought cameras were witchcraft]
View Quote
By it's very definition, yes it is.


A-theist........


But then, like most who claim "atheism" you're changing the definition to suit your needs.


I find most atheists to be intellectually dishonest. Someone who claims to be a agnostic I find to be more reasonable.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:04:08 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
By it's very definition, yes it is.


A-theist........


But then, like most who claim "atheism" you're changing the definition to suit your needs.


I find most atheists to be intellectually dishonest. Someone who claims to be a agnostic I find to be more reasonable.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Atheism isn't some all encompassing position. It's just do you believe X is real (or not)?

Chinese people are technically Atheists, even if they burn money for the spirits of their ancestors, believe in ghosts/etc.

You actually have to do the work of critical thinking. [insert groan at the thought of actually having to think independently and not have it given to your pre-packaged by people who would've thought cameras were witchcraft]
By it's very definition, yes it is.


A-theist........


But then, like most who claim "atheism" you're changing the definition to suit your needs.


I find most atheists to be intellectually dishonest. Someone who claims to be a agnostic I find to be more reasonable.
You either believe or you don't.

People who say they're simply Agnostic are largely just cucks who don't want the social stigma of Atheism. You either believe or you don't.

>Do you believe in a God/Gods or not?
>I don't know.
>What?
>I don't have enough evidence.
>k, you didn't answer the question though, do you believe in a God/Gods or not?
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just because people believe something, it doesn't mean they're saying 100% it's absolutely true. Just because people don't believe something, it doesn't mean they're saying 100% it's absolutely false.

Agnosticism/Gnosticism (claims to knowledge) is a different question from Atheism/Theism (whether one believes or not).

The only thing one can really know is "I think therefor I am" and 1+1=2, etc. (even though it's a construct and is a tautology; it's still something one can know, everything is defined). People believe things past this, even though they don't have 100% absolute knowledge.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:07:22 AM EDT
[#34]
I am too dumb to be sure about a particular belief.

that said I think you can pick two, not all three of the following

omnipotent
omniscient
benevolent

with that criteria, spirits are easier for me to wrap my head around logically, based on the state of what's known, than an all powerful, all knowing and benevolent singular god
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:41:40 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:


It's not a term that is subject to interpretation. Facts do not change because we wish them to do so.
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Look around, and read some of the threads here and you will see that your statement isn't true.

I agree with you, but that isn't how it happens.

I'm not going to be drawn further into this as my pee-pee is still sore from its last slap.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:45:37 AM EDT
[#36]
You believe in what you agree with.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 7:46:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's not a term that is subject to interpretation. Facts do not change because we wish them to do so.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Examine the actual evidence for either and use that to inform your decision.
"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
It's not a term that is subject to interpretation. Facts do not change because we wish them to do so.
I see you haven't been in any of the recent Bigfoot threads.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:03:54 AM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:

I see you haven't been in any of the recent Bigfoot threads.
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Or a couple of other types which I will not name out loud.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I see folks say they believe in ghosts, evil spirits, etc. Those same people think it's silly to believe in "an old man who lives in the sky". Is it possible to reconcile those two points of view?
View Quote



I personally do not believe it to be possible, to believe in god, and NOT believe in spirits / ghosts......( the bible plainly mentions spirits, demons, witches, etc. )...  just as I don't believe you can believe in spirits and not god.  how could a spirit / soul exist, but not a creator?


I suppose it is possible to believe / not believe in one, but believe / not believe in the other.. people are pretty weird, and can justify anything.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 8:18:00 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:

...... people are pretty weird, and can justify anything.
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Bingo!

And they make up "facts" to do so.

A set of coherent, internally consistent arguments can lead to a conclusion which is complete bullshit.

It happens every day.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 1:32:27 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:
I see you haven't been in any of the recent Bigfoot threads.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Examine the actual evidence for either and use that to inform your decision.
"Actual evidence" means different things to different groups.
It's not a term that is subject to interpretation. Facts do not change because we wish them to do so.
I see you haven't been in any of the recent Bigfoot threads.
Point taken
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 1:45:55 PM EDT
[#42]
A perfectly rational person will choose to believe in God.

If there is a God, and you don't believe, you get eternal torment
If there is a God, and you believe, you get eternal reward
If there is no God, you get Oblivion either way.

Believing in God has a better set of possible outcomes and little relative cost, so the optimal strategy is to believe.

[Flamesuit on]

(Not my idea, this is Pascal's wager)
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:13:44 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:

(Not my idea, this is Pascal's wager)
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Paschal should have stuck to the physical sciences, where he made real, evidence based contributions.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 4:25:40 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:
A perfectly rational person will choose to believe in God.

If there is a God, and you don't believe, you get eternal torment
If there is a God, and you believe, you get eternal reward
If there is no God, you get Oblivion either way.

Believing in God has a better set of possible outcomes and little relative cost, so the optimal strategy is to believe.

[Flamesuit on]

(Not my idea, this is Pascal's wager)
View Quote
I assume you already know some of the counter-points.

There's a bunch of different mutually-exclusive proposed God(s).

God will know if you're believing in him like you put a bet down at a roulette table.

You can't really will yourself to believe either. You're either convinced of something or you're not.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager

It's really telling though that's it all about carrots and sticks.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:35:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Ptah laughs at this silly talk of other gods.

Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:40:28 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:
Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've never met an atheist who believes in ghosts. 
Then you should get out more




Atheists don't tend to be the most consistent  of people in my experience.
Yet many research scientists are atheists go figure.
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