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Posted: 6/4/2008 10:56:05 PM EST
Between 2001-06 I flew about 100K a year. I left my travel intensive job to start my own business. So I didn't fly for about two year while trying to get "off the ground" so to speak. Recently I had to travel to three different cities within two weeks on both coasts, so I hopped on some planes for the first time in years. The security lines I am fine with. But what the hell happened to customer service. I swear I thought I was checking into a greyhound bus. Once on the plane I was disgusted with the "flight attendants".....all of them were old and crusty as hell. I honestly hadn't seen such bad service since I went to the DMV to get my driver’s license renewed. Do they even bother to clean the planes anymore between cities? In the pocket in front of my seat were tissues, decomposing food, and god knows what else. It was just disgusting. Is it just me or have they just given up on trying to make traveling a pleasuring experience?
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 10:59:08 PM EST
I long for the days of half-full planes and leisurely layovers.

Oh, and food.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:06:51 PM EST
They are 'giving the people what they want'....

Flying is no longer primarily a 'business trip' thing paid for by companies...

It's become common-level mass transit...

And the average passenger doesn't want 'customer service', etc...

They want the cheapest possible ride from A to B in the shortest possible time...

To deliver this, airlines cut everything else that once made up the 'flying experience'....

Simple economics....
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:07:50 PM EST
In 2007 (my last flight) I had a hottie for a flight attendant
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 2:15:29 AM EST
Does it suck now ?

Back in '01, 3 months before the attacks, I accompanied my wife on a business trip to San Jose CA. On the flight back, they thought the best wat to get us back to Ft Lauderdale FL was to take us there vis Newark NJ.

It's sucked for along time, the suckiness is just getting ratcheted up more now..
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 2:19:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By SonOfNorway:
In 2007 (my last flight) I had a hottie for a flight attendant


Same. She was the hottest flight attendant I'd ever had. I think she'd only been on the job 2 months.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 2:31:04 AM EST
I haven't flown anywhere since early 2001. I just don't want to deal with the TSA and BS security check points.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 2:54:37 AM EST
Whenever I go to the airport I feel like I am going to jail. It is NOT fun.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:04:22 AM EST
Yes, flying does suck. American Airlines REALLLLLY sucks.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:49:14 AM EST
Major suxor....
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:53:31 AM EST
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:57:32 AM EST
I'm going on a trip with a bunch of guns soon. I am not looking forward to all the hassles. BTW is their any limit on the number of guns you can bring in one case?
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:07:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:10:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
They are 'giving the people what they want'....

Flying is no longer primarily a 'business trip' thing paid for by companies...

It's become common-level mass transit...

And the average passenger doesn't want 'customer service', etc...

They want the cheapest possible ride from A to B in the shortest possible time...

To deliver this, airlines cut everything else that once made up the 'flying experience'....

Simple economics....


I disagree, it's just that domestic market is run by a bunch of inept twats with the endless mission of socializing their perpetual losses.

Flying non-domestic: British Airways, Air China, etc... The prices are pretty much the same but the service is farging phenomenal. It's almost like they're trying to stay in business and they value me as a customer.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:19:37 AM EST
Correction ...

Flying has ALWAYS sucked, but now it's beyond pale. All that excess capacity they just sucked out of the fleet means, you miss a flight due to weather or any other delay = you gonna be one pissed off person.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:20:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
They are 'giving the people what they want'....

Flying is no longer primarily a 'business trip' thing paid for by companies...

It's become common-level mass transit...

And the average passenger doesn't want 'customer service', etc...

They want the cheapest possible ride from A to B in the shortest possible time...

To deliver this, airlines cut everything else that once made up the 'flying experience'....

Simple economics....


I disagree, it's just that domestic market is run by a bunch of inept twats with the endless mission of socializing their perpetual losses.

Flying non-domestic: British Airways, Air China, etc... The prices are pretty much the same but the service is farging phenomenal. It's almost like they're trying to stay in business and they value me as a customer.


British Airways has the WORST customer service IN THE WORLD. I stopped flying them after about the tenth time the treated me like a leper.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:21:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


Explain the card please.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:22:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By ak007:
Whenever I go to the airport I feel like I am going to jail. It is NOT fun.


My general rule of thumb now is if my destination is at or under 12 hrs by vehicle, it's drivable. Screw the airports.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:24:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


Explain the card please.
www.flyclear.com/
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:25:30 AM EST
Flying sucks.

5sub
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:27:08 AM EST
It's not just you. Flying sucks.

-Out
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:29:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Patriot54:
Does it suck now ?

Back in '01, 3 months before the attacks, I accompanied my wife on a business trip to San Jose CA. On the flight back, they thought the best wat to get us back to Ft Lauderdale FL was to take us there vis Newark NJ.

It's sucked for along time, the suckiness is just getting ratcheted up more now..


I don't understand your problem. Were you ticketed to fly via Newark? Perhaps on Continental who has a HUB in Newark, NJ? Or was it an unscheduled stop perhaps due to weather, or mechanical issues?

Flights aren't created with EVERY person's convenience in mind.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:29:22 AM EST
It will get a LOT worse before it gets better.

Several (most?) big airlines will go under in the next 12 months.

Smaller, more efficient airlines will be formed out of the pieces. They will be desperate for customers (in their death throes, the big airlines will treat passengers worse and worse), so will treat passengers MUCH better.

Jeez, I hate when clients go bankrupt. Do you have any idea how much bullshit is involved?

Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:29:54 AM EST
If the trip is 400 miles or less I just drive, flying is not what it once was.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:37:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
They are 'giving the people what they want'....

Flying is no longer primarily a 'business trip' thing paid for by companies...

It's become common-level mass transit...

And the average passenger doesn't want 'customer service', etc...

They want the cheapest possible ride from A to B in the shortest possible time...

To deliver this, airlines cut everything else that once made up the 'flying experience'....

Simple economics....


I disagree, it's just that domestic market is run by a bunch of inept twats with the endless mission of socializing their perpetual losses.

Flying non-domestic: British Airways, Air China, etc... The prices are pretty much the same but the service is farging phenomenal. It's almost like they're trying to stay in business and they value me as a customer.


I'm with Dave on this. I'm a working guy and I fly my family of 4 to Orlando for vacation every year or so. Non Stop round trip has cost a little over $800.00 for the whole family on Airtran. That is up until this year. The point is, when flying was about the experience and service, families like mine couldn't afford to fly.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:37:28 AM EST
Flying is now cheap enough that people who would not be permitted on Greyhound due to their odor and behavior are able to enjoy a 5hr flight in the seat next to me from BWI to Nowheresville.

Kharn
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 4:38:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


Explain the card please.
www.flyclear.com/


Money always trumps government security
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 5:01:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Patriot54:
Does it suck now ?

Back in '01, 3 months before the attacks, I accompanied my wife on a business trip to San Jose CA. On the flight back, they thought the best wat to get us back to Ft Lauderdale FL was to take us there vis Newark NJ.


This wouldn't please me, but I would definitely head for the Nathan's Hot Dogs stand during the layover . . .
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 5:08:00 AM EST
Couple of weeks from now, I am driving 1000 mile round trip for training so that I do not have to fly.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 5:44:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 5:47:23 AM EST by Greymantle]
I started my own business also. I believe it depends on which airline you fly. For example Southwest grew rapidly since 9/11 while most of the mainstream airlines wilted. SWA now flies more than half of all the passenger-miles flown by US domestic air carriers. This allowed them to upgrade to the latest B737s. Their aircrew, flight attendants, etc. seem VERY happy to be with SWA.

By contrast, other US domestic airlines that are still in business e.g. Delta have obviously unhappy aircrews and flight attendants. This is true with many struggling airlines around the world (the ones that are still in business).

As for empty seats, you won't find them often on a successful airline like SWA.

The good side of this is, the price of air travel has gone way down. I can do a 2 week advance purchase round trip flight from NH to Baltimore Washington, non stop including a MARC train ride to Union Station in Washington DC for around $120 round trip. This allows my business to NOT have a Washington office. We work from NH.

Even recently, with the HUGE increases in the cost of jet fuel, the airlines have been doing a fairly good job in keeping the prices under control... This in part is due to new technology in the newer planes, such as the wing tip "winglets" and upgraded engines.

If you have noticed more flight delays since 2001, that's likely due to the new weather radars installed at all US airports in the last few years. These new radars see "microbursts" (violent, invisible air pockets which have caused many crashes) where they could not be seen before. For better flight safety, the air traffic controllers and tower staff are now able to hold off landings and take-offs when microbursts show up near airports. This might mess up flight schedules but IMHO I'd rather be safe than dead.

Yes there are some highly publicized delays caused by airline "screw ups". Some of these are a product of the economic difficulties these airlines are in. They may reduce maintenance on older airplanes which they can't afford to replace. That goes back to my "it depends on which airline" comment earlier...
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 5:51:34 AM EST
I flew this past weekend for work. I went from MSP to Richmond via ORD, then back to MSP from Richmond via JFK. I had no problems, and all of my flights were on time. American on the way out to Richmond, Delta/NWA on the way home. Nothing special, but not awful wether.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 6:31:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


Explain the card please.
www.flyclear.com/


Money always trumps government security


sure, that plus retinal scans, fingerprints, and background checks.

I'm less secure just like people with CCWs are more dangerous.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 6:43:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By fiend:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
I agree....coach is worse than ever.

I fly a lot, so about 1/2 of my flights are first class. The contrast between the attendant attitudes in first and coach is astonishing

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


Explain the card please.
www.flyclear.com/


Money always trumps government security


sure, that plus retinal scans, fingerprints, and background checks.

I'm less secure just like people with CCWs are more dangerous.


I'm not saying you are less secure, but just like all the rules in the world, if you pay enough money you can get around them.

Just like having your CHP in VA, the one handgun a month law doesn't apply.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 6:46:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

At least I don't have to stand in security lines with you riff raff:

i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/2008-05-31-35230.jpg


+1 Clear Card... FTW!
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