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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/27/2006 12:28:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:33:37 PM EDT
I believe it already is.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:36:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:37:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:37:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
I noted last week a high speed chase where the police were trying to catch a vehicle and persued it for miles at high speeds and through dense traffic. Given that these incidents put many innocent lives at risk, would you consider the act of using a motor vehicle to flee from the police at high speed a serious crime and perhaps a violent crime?

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,189189,00.html



Hmmm.....good question.

I think it is, or should be if it isn't.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:39:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 12:40:00 PM EDT by krpind]

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
When you guys make me King I'm going to declare it a capital offense with the sentence to be meted out at the scene where it ends. The only caveat will be that multiple officers must be involved in order to avoid vendettas and questions as to what happened or didn't happen.



Hell that doesn't even stop the bashers here.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:43:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:45:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:47:37 PM EDT
Up until a few years ago attempting elude was not even an arrestable offense here.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:47:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:48:28 PM EDT
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:50:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:51:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:54:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:56:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 12:59:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:03:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:05:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 1:05:50 PM EDT by motown_steve]
Everything else is a felony, why not make fleeing from the police a felony? Sure we have things like vehicular homocide, reckless endangerment and reckless driving laws, but those don't go far enough to ensure the safety of law enforcement officers or to protect the public. We need another new law to close the fleeing from police loophole.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:08:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.



Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?



Absolutely. Perhps the analogy was not the greatest one but it got the point across. What if I am speeding? Crime of violence? What if I hit someone? What if I almost hit someone because of it?

You can keep splitting that fucking hair ad infinitum.

No doubt you, as self procalimed "site JBT" would like to incarcerate us for looking at you cross eyed. Fortunately, this is not quite a police state yet, and you are not a memeber of the ruling class. Getting there but not quite....


Seems you make my point for me in your next post:



For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:09:44 PM EDT
In NC a cop was chasing some dude who had spilled gas all over himself. I think he was trying to steal something and got caught, I'm not sure. So, Anyway the cop chasing him hit him with a taser,and the dude just ignited. He's up at the burn center at UNC and probably won't live.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:12:56 PM EDT
A crime? Of course. A violent offense? No. If they injure or kill somebody in the process, it's whatever crime that is (hit and run, battery, negligent homicide, etc.).
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:15:48 PM EDT
Fleeing from police at high speeds?

Naa it’s not a big deal, just fun and games really. But then I think its all fun and games when the cops beat someone half to death for doing this. (One broken bone or three missing teeth per mile should be the standard.)

Seriously, there are some things we should have zero tolerance for and this is one. Don’t wanna stop? Fine, slow down to a safe speed and drive just as long as you like. If the cop’s shift is about to end or he needs to go to lunch he can just radio for another car to keep following you. (Don’t get me wrong, this ought to be a crime unless you have a good reason for it but it should be a finable offense at best.)

But running at high speed? Nope, that risks everyone’s life. When someone does it they ought to be beaten senseless and tossed in jail.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:16:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
How if fleeing a crime "violent"? It is "reckless" but that is not the same thing. Every new offense now is a "violent" and a "felony."

In NY if I kick you in the nuts, but cause no real injury, that is a violation, punishable by 15 days in jail. However if I call you the phone and call you a mother f-er, that is a misdemeanor and I can do a year in jail for that. Personally I'd rather be called names over the phone then get kicked in the nads, but with "crime inflation" everything is a hanging offense now.


+1. I'm tired of every new thing becoming a "serious problem" requiring serious penalties when actual violent crime is treated with far less seriousness.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:34:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 1:36:52 PM EDT by DonD]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
No. Not in and of itself.

That is like asking whether hitting a golf ball is a crime of violence because it could hit someone in the head.

That said, under some circumstances it could be.



Say what?? Fleeing is always a crime--"hitting a golf ball" never is, providing it's not done in some weird attempt at deliberately hitting someone. You sure you meant to say what came out?



Absolutely. Perhps the analogy was not the greatest one but it got the point across. What if I am speeding? Crime of violence? What if I hit someone? What if I almost hit someone because of it?

You can keep splitting that fucking hair ad infinitum.

No doubt you, as self procalimed "site JBT" would like to incarcerate us for looking at you cross eyed. Fortunately, this is not quite a police state yet, and you are not a memeber of the ruling class. Getting there but not quite....


Seems you make my point for me in your next post:



For point of reference Fleeing and eluding has been a felony in this state for at least the last 20 years. There is a violence penalty kicker if anyone is actually injured in the persuit.



One thing is clear, "Mr golf ball defense" is I owe you an apology for taking you seriously before.
I promise it will not happen again.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:44:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DonD:


One thing is clear, "Mr golf ball defense" is I owe you an apology for taking you seriously before.
I promise it will not happen again.



Ho-hum...you say something?

Didn't think so.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:46:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:03:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 2:04:46 PM EDT by five2one]
When it comes to whether or not the police should chase someone in a car I would like to see more data on this issue. The data are probably out there ,but I have yet to see it.

First: How many vehicle stops are initiated?
Second: What percentage of vehicle stops lead to chases?
Third: How many of those chases lead to the car being stopped and how many evade the police?
Fourth: Other than the acts related to the evasion of the police and any initital traffice stop, what crimes have the evaders been accused of?
Fifth: How many chases lead to damaged property or injuries/deaths of the chasers, the chasees, and others?

I'm sure there are other good questions, but thats what I would like to know for now.

eta: People say its too dangerous to chase evaders through neighborhoods, but its also dangerous to let criminals escape.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:05:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:09:13 PM EDT
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:14:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.



And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:53:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.



Your suggestion may be a little too tough. It always makes you wonder why they ran. The problem with it is some are so stupid it may just be they did not want to stop for the inconvenience. They are not smart, but shooting them would not help their problem. Being arrested or cited into court and seeing how the court system can inconvenience them may help next time.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:59:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 3:04:40 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Yes. High speed pursutis endanger everyone on the road and sidewalk. Some states already treat them that way and the cops will use deadly force to end them.

In my state simple evading is a misdemeanor.

Evading with wanton disregard for others a a felony. That's stuff like driving the wrong way on a one way and blowing multiple red lights in heavy traffic.

The last felony evadig i had the driver ran three stop signs, drove the wrong way on a one way, blew a redlight across the busiest street in our area and crashed into a hotel. he was running becuase he was driving a car he stole.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:08:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Yes. High speed pursutis endanger everyone on the road and sidewalk. Some states already treat them that way and the cops will use deadly force to end them.

In my state simple evading is a misdemeanor.

Evading with wanton disregard for others a a felony. That's stuff like driving the wrong way on a one way and blowing multiple red lights in heavy traffic.

The last felony evadig i had the driver ran three stop signs, drove the wrong way on a one way, blew a redlight across the busiest street in our area and crashed into a hotel. he was running becuase he was driving a car he stole.



I think you should have cited him for improper parking too!
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:14:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.



And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.


Pre_crime? What about fleeing is "pre-crime"? Fleeing felons cause accidents.

Libtard BS from you of all people?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:31:34 PM EDT
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:34:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 3:36:56 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?



Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect. The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:36:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?



Misdemeanor resisting arrest.


Thanks.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:37:18 PM EDT
Yep
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:42:14 PM EDT
I think it depends on the circumstances.

I think its entirely possible to flee without being a danger to anyone, why should someone who isnt endangering others be considered a violent felon.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:43:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I'm of the firm opinion that lethal force should be authorized to stop anyone fleeing in a vehicle.

Allowing them to flee is insane.



And jaywalkers too.
Allowing them to do that is insane. They could cause an accident.

MO is that there should be a degree of crime as we have in many such tings.

Now, it is unlawful to flee. Hit someone and the consequences goes wayyyy up. I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about that.

Seems to me this is just more "precrime" bullshit. If the criteria for punishment becomes whatever bad "COULD HAVE HAPPENED" then freedom is truly dead in America. No doubt many of the popo would like that. Not all, but enough.


Pre_crime? What about fleeing is "pre-crime"? Fleeing felons cause accidents.

Libtard BS from you of all people?



Libtard?
You've got to be shitting me. Is that really the best you can come up with? Inane insults for lack of a decent argument?

Fleeing?
Nothing about it is a precrime.
Trying to escalate it to something more as something else "could happen" is.

As has been stated there are flights that fit under an aggravated circumstance(for lack of a better word). Why isn't that enough?

There are enough laws already. For me to be convinced we need another you are going to have to do a lot better in convincing me.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?



Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect. The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"



Who was your Sgt?
George C. Scott?

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:50:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
This isn't directly related to shotar's original question, but how is fleeing on foot generally treated? Felony? Misdemeanor? Other?



Misdemeanor resisting arrest. Typical punishment is getting the shit kicked out of you when you get caught, $100.00 fine and 1-yr informal probation.

True story. As a rookie after my first foot pursuit i was all excited about catching the suspect. The training Sgt looked at me with contempt and asked "Why isnt he going to the hospital?"



Who was your Sgt?



A crusty old Marine, long since retired. And i still dont beat up suspects for simply running. But it takes an incredible amount of restraint sometimes. especially after one of my friends got a compound fracture of his gun arm during a foot pursuit.
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