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Posted: 11/2/2009 9:31:05 AM EDT
This idea has bothered me for a while.



I think this is a legitimate question, not intended as a troll topic.
With Chief Executives who've admitted past drug abuse, what happens if they relapse and the SS catches wind?
Heaven forbid, BUT if a highly dedicated Secret Service Agent sees his Commander-In-Chief doing something such as snorting Cocaine, is the Secret Service Agents duty to his Country? - or his loyalty (and secrecy) to his President?



WWTSSD?
Disclaimer: This would not be an issue if persons who hold office had not admitted past illegal drug abuse.

 
 
 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:36:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Based on your example, the SS agent would have to stay quiet, IMO.  However, if there were violations of the constitution, I would hope that they and all LE and military would stand up and oppose his/her actions as president....
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:47:25 AM EDT
[#2]
As far as I know, the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags) has a simple directive: KEEP THE MAN ALIVE.

They pretty much keep quiet beyond that. There's good and bad in it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:48:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
This idea has bothered me for a while.

I think this is a legitimate question, not intended as a troll topic.

With Chief Executives who've admitted past drug abuse, what happens if they relapse and the SS catches wind?

Heaven forbid, BUT if a highly dedicated Secret Service Agent sees his Commander-In-Chief doing something such as snorting Cocaine, is the Secret Service Agents duty to his Country? - or his loyalty (and secrecy) to his President?

WWTSSD?

Disclaimer: This would not be an issue if persons who hold office had not admitted past illegal drug abuse.  
 


why in the hell would that matter.  If USSS catches POTUS doing drugs, why in god's name does it matter if he's admitted to past drug abuse?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:49:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Country.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:51:37 AM EDT
[#5]
From people in the know, I am told they do nothing but their job which is to protect whoever they are assigned to. They are not law enforcement.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:54:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags)



They don't.

It's USSS.

******************
http://www.secretservice.gov/faq.shtml#faq6

   *  What types of crimes does the Secret Service investigate?

     
The Secret Service has primary jurisdiction to investigate threats against Secret Service protectees as well as financial crimes, which include counterfeiting of U.S. currency or other U.S. Government obligations; forgery or theft of U.S. Treasury checks, bonds or other securities; credit card fraud; telecommunications fraud; computer fraud, identify fraud and certain other crimes affecting federally insured financial institutions.

   * What legal authority and powers do Secret Service agents have?

     
Under Title 18, Section 3056, of the United States Code, agents and officers of the United States Secret Service can:

         o Carry firearms
         o Execute warrants issued under the laws of the United States
         o Make arrests without warrants for any offense against the United States committed in their presence, or for any felony recognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed such felony
         o Offer and pay rewards for services and information leading to the apprehension of persons involved in the violation of the law that the Secret Service is authorized to enforce
         o Investigate fraud in connection with identification documents, fraudulent commerce, fictitious instruments and foreign securities and
         o Perform other functions and duties authorized by law

     The Secret Service works closely with the United States Attorney's Office in both protective and investigative matters.

According to the red highlighted portion, they are able to make an arrest for any witnessed felony. They are not, however, mandated to do so. Basically, it's discretionary. The agent could do so. It would probably be career suicide for the agent, though.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:55:33 AM EDT
[#8]
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:01:07 AM EDT
[#9]
The secrecy is part of the job.  They need to be trusted by the President to keep their mouths shut.

This, in turn, lets them do their job of protecting the President.

Do I think they would hesitate to step in if the President was completely unhinged?  For instance, something involving nuclear secrets?  I have no evidence of this but I would be willing to bet they would do the right thing for the country.

I don't envy their job.  Especially dealing with the "first families" they have had to deal with over the years.

I bet the worst President was bad to deal with, but the worst First Lady was 10X worse.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:04:09 AM EDT
[#10]





Quoted:



I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.
In before someone mentions join date, username, blah blah





Obviously you are a man in the know and should be trusted.
 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:05:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:05:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:

Quoted:
From people in the know, I am told they do nothing but their job which is to protect whoever they are assigned to. They are not law enforcement.

Yet they investigate counterfeiting of US currency.
 


I believe that Mateba is referring to the Protective Division.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:11:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.

In before someone mentions join date, username, blah blah

Obviously you are a man in the know and should be trusted.


FWIW I've gotten the same intel.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:13:14 AM EDT
[#14]
Duty, honor, country.

Those words have a particular order for a reason.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:13:45 AM EDT
[#15]
I would hope that their mission statement states they are loyal to the United States in that it needs a leader at all times who is capable of dealing with emergencies at any time.  A president that compromises his ability to think and decide through using drugs has compromised the ability of our country to act quickly.  I would hope they would do what was necessary.

Addiction makes you do crazy shit.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:15:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:16:05 AM EDT
[#17]
Country.

That being said, some missions are Protect the protectee.  No philosophical  issues there.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:17:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags)



They don't.

It's USSS.


Excellent point. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:19:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



True, but you have to have SOME respect for the individual if you are willing to take a bullet for him. Not even the USSS is THAT hard-core.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:21:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



I'm taking that third-hand reference with a lot of salt until I hear from a direct source.  I know USSS people and I've heard nothing of that sort.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:23:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
As far as I know, the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags) has a simple directive: KEEP THE MAN ALIVE.

They pretty much keep quiet beyond that. There's good and bad in it.


They also investigate currency counterfeiters and other forms of fraud. If they caught the totus with a printing press in his office they'd have a dilemma.

Technically speaking, after being arrested, impeached, convicted, and sent to federal prison, the guy would still be alive. So they wouldn't be negligent in their duty if they took him into custody. They could choose to do both, in true Arfcom fashion.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.
In before someone mentions join date, username, blah blah

Obviously you are a man in the know and should be trusted.

 


What are you talking about man? I'm just relaying a personal anecdote. The concern that this retired agent has is that the expanded number of vacincies will open the door for unqualified agents who are hired due to political connections and affirimitive action.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:26:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Somebody asked why past abuse matters - I say past poor decisions, coupled with present poor decisions show a pattern of - poor decisions.



If a CIC was doing drugs, he would in fact be a threat to himself, therefore I would think it would concern the Agency.  My concern is where that personal threat is weighed against secrecy - then weighed against what is best for the country.  I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.



I think I'm getting mixed opinions here, between country and secrecy.



Let us hope those men never have to face such a decision.



Drudge reporting obama as losing weight and skipping meals,  calling him "Barack 'N Bones" here might make one wonder.



That is all.




Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:27:00 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as I know, the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags) has a simple directive: KEEP THE MAN ALIVE.

They pretty much keep quiet beyond that. There's good and bad in it.


They also investigate currency counterfeiters and other forms of fraud. If they caught the totus with a printing press in his office they'd have a dilemma.


Well........ what's happening these days isn't much different.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:28:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Drudge reporting obama as losing weight and skipping meals,  calling him "Barack 'N Bones" here might make one wonder.


I'm sure the media will be along shortly to tell us that Rush lost all his weigh on the Obama Diet.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:28:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



I would have thought they would be serving to protect the Constitution and their oath of office.  Like most .GOV .MIL, and other LEOs I would assume they take an oath to defend this country from all enemies.....So for the ones who quit out of political philosophy it may be their way of defending their country.  Defending it by not being apart of its corruptness.  I can respect that.  I think that beats staying in service and watching a bunch of illegal crap go down and doing nothing about it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:34:08 AM EDT
[#27]


Not all of them are 100 percent loyal to POTUS. My "neighbor" sure wasnt to Clinton. Put SSA Fox, Lewinski, Clinton Scandal in your Google bar.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:37:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



I'm taking that third-hand reference with a lot of salt until I hear from a direct source.  I know USSS people and I've heard nothing of that sort.


This,
I still have people I talk to from my previous life at HMX who work for the USSS.  I have not heard of droves of people leaving.  The people in the USSS who I know and have dealt with are some of the most professional people I have ever met and I doubt highly that they care about anything but protecting the continuity of the executive branch.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:38:24 AM EDT
[#29]



Quoted:


I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.





Sometimes all the protest you can do in a job is quit.  I can see where a lot of people would have problems working w/ Obama.  From my point of view he's the first president in my lifetime for whom I have *ZERO* respect.  Even Clinton was likeable enough if you ignored his politics.  I heard plenty of reports of how Clinton worked a room and had even people who disagreed with him liking him as a person.  Obama doesn't even have that, and his politics and the people he's chosen to surround himself with are even worse than Clinton's were. (At least IMO.
)



 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:39:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Human nature indicates the latter.

Prediction is that the Antichrist, an unelected ruler of the world, will be captured by the underground and hung without trial as there will be no courts free from his influence.

Guess the resistance will have to get past the future version of the SS.

Wonder if they will help?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:40:47 AM EDT
[#31]





I was thinking of this one.








 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:43:10 AM EDT
[#32]



Quoted:






I'm not sure what you're saying - but I don't think it relates to the singular question at hand, in fact it detracts.



 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:44:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
As far as I know, the USSS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags) has a simple directive: KEEP THE MAN ALIVE.

They pretty much keep quiet beyond that. There's good and bad in it.


Fixed it for ya.  Feel better?

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:48:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



I'm taking that third-hand reference with a lot of salt until I hear from a direct source.  I know USSS people and I've heard nothing of that sort.


This,
I still have people I talk to from my previous life at HMX who work for the USSS.  I have not heard of droves of people leaving.  The people in the USSS who I know and have dealt with are some of the most professional people I have ever met and I doubt highly that they care about anything but protecting the continuity of the executive branch.



USMC6177:

I'd just like to note that every HMX aircraft I ever flew on was perfectly fit to have open-heart surgery on the cabin floor.  Those aircraft were absolutely, positively spotless.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#35]
What I've heard, is that the folks who are in the Air Force One or Marine One type details were opting out at the earliest convenience.  These folks have friends and family who they discuss career plans with.  Whether or not its true will be up to history to report, I guess.
ETA - Getting back to the original question, I wish we had someone who is or was in the USSS that could lend an opinion - but I would bet their super-duper secrecy oath would prevent that from happening.



 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:00:53 AM EDT
[#36]





Quoted:



Country.





That being said, some missions are Protect the protectee.  No philosophical  issues there.



So my question would be: can a protectee become his own threat by abusing dangerous drugs, and if so does the USSS act?





This obviously isn't restricted to any particular Executive/protectee - it's a philosophical question as far as I'm concerned.




ETA - DOES THE USSS PROTECT SOMEONE FROM THEMSELVES?





 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:01:58 AM EDT
[#37]
Do the USSS take an oath?? What does it say??
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:16:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.


I would suggest to him that they stay...

Otherwise their shoes will be filled by a commie who does not give a damn as you noted.

They also need to keep good notes and or video.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:27:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Somebody asked why past abuse matters - I say past poor decisions, coupled with present poor decisions show a pattern of - poor decisions.

If a CIC was doing drugs, he would in fact be a threat to himself, therefore I would think it would concern the Agency.  My concern is where that personal threat is weighed against secrecy - then weighed against what is best for the country.  I wouldn't want to be in those shoes.

I think I'm getting mixed opinions here, between country and secrecy.

Let us hope those men never have to face such a decision.

Drudge reporting obama as losing weight and skipping meals,  calling him "Barack 'N Bones" here might make one wonder.

That is all.



Wasn't it alleged that JFK was addicted to pain killers for his back problems?  Mix that in with the womanizing that went on and I'd say the USSS tends to keep their mouth shut on what they see, while the person is in office and/or is alive.  Regan was rumored to suffer from early effects of Alzheimer's while in the later part of his term.  I know a few former USSS guys and they won't talk about what they saw/heard on their assigned details.  They see and hear everything. They sign non-disclosure agreements that are in effect until they either die or they are released from the agreement.  I don't know how, if , or when a USSS Agent has the authority, obligation, or responsibility to step in and stop a Chief Executive from doing something. When does the 25th Amendment take effect? Who decides when it should be invoked? At what point and under what circumstances can a Chief Executive be removed from office or impeached?  Is the President exempt from arrest like Congress is while they are in session?

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:31:38 AM EDT
[#40]
^^ these examples are NOT illegal drugs.
Prescribed pain killers are legal and used correctly can make a non-functioning person functional.
Alzheimers is a sad condition.
Both conditions above assume medical supervision.
Neither of these examples equate to snorting coke. It is assumed that doing Cocaine is extremely dangerous to your health - therefore the question remains, does the USSS step in if the man they are protecting is harming himself (and possibly the country in the process)? - or do they just keep quiet then protect a new guy?
 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:46:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
^^ these examples are NOT illegal drugs.

Prescribed pain killers are legal and used correctly can make a non-functioning person functional.

Alzheimers is a sad condition.

Both conditions above assume medical supervision.

Neither of these examples equate to snorting coke. It is assumed that doing Cocaine is extremely dangerous to your health - therefore the question remains, does the USSS step in if the man they are protecting is harming himself?

 


But if the prescribed drugs become a problem, what then? Just because they are administered by a doctor doesn't mean they aren't being abused.  Alzheimer's robs the person of their mind.  Snorting coke inhibits the thought process and judgement.  All three examples would render the common man or citizen incapacitated by the law to some degree.  At what point would someone say "it's time to give up the keys to the ICBM"?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:51:15 AM EDT
[#42]



Quoted:

At what point would someone say "it's time to give up the keys to the ICBM"?


My question is centered on clearly illegal and dangerous activity.



 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 11:54:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm surprised to learn about an alleged increase in usss job turnover.  I assumed they were serving to protect a branch of the government - not a personality or political philosophy.



I'm taking that third-hand reference with a lot of salt until I hear from a direct source.  I know USSS people and I've heard nothing of that sort.


This,
I still have people I talk to from my previous life at HMX who work for the USSS.  I have not heard of droves of people leaving.  The people in the USSS who I know and have dealt with are some of the most professional people I have ever met and I doubt highly that they care about anything but protecting the continuity of the executive branch.



USMC6177:

I'd just like to note that very HMX aircraft I ever flew one was perfectly fit to have open-heart surgery on the cabin floor.  Those aircraft were absolutely, positively spotless.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Eyesofsilver/web%20avatars%20and%20useful%20pics/icon_salute1.gif


Thanks,

We tried hard to impress.
We like to say we bled blue (from all the windex)
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:10:11 PM EDT
[#44]



Quoted:


As far as I know, the SS (I hate that their initials are the same as that bunch of murderous nutbags) has a simple directive: KEEP THE MAN ALIVE.



They pretty much keep quiet beyond that. There's good and bad in it.


I asked a SS agent (
) whom I was shooting with if he would defend a man if the Vice President decided to shot him in the face.



The answer was, "The guy is a nobody."




 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 12:12:32 PM EDT
[#45]







Quoted:
Quoted:



From people in the know, I am told they do nothing but their job which is to protect whoever they are assigned to. They are not law enforcement.




Yet they investigate counterfeiting of US currency.






 




Different arm of the same agency.





While they do have LEO authority, the ones who are protecting the POTUS do exactly that, and nothing more...





Further, we don't arrest sitting Presidents in this country, it's not a banana republic.... Illegal conduct on the part of the President requires impeachment or the end of his term before he can be prosecuted, to avoid politically motivated prosecutions...
 
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:06:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Remember............back when William Jefferson Clinton was president?

OK........

Now, do you remember the "story" about Hillary Clinton throwing stuff at him.

Humm?

Aloha, Mark







Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:51:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.


Would  not surprise me at all if Obama and/or his staff are doing their best to encourage the old school secret service agents
to leave so they can recruit and put in place a group who are more "pliable and openminded" about Obama and his intentions.



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:10:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
This idea has bothered me for a while.

I think this is a legitimate question, not intended as a troll topic.

With Chief Executives who've admitted past drug abuse, what happens if they relapse and the SS catches wind?

Heaven forbid, BUT if a highly dedicated Secret Service Agent sees his Commander-In-Chief doing something such as snorting Cocaine, is the Secret Service Agents duty to his Country? - or his loyalty (and secrecy) to his President?

WWTSSD?

Disclaimer: This would not be an issue if persons who hold office had not admitted past illegal drug abuse.      



My understanding is that it is the USSS agent's duty to charge the President and bodycheck him away from the line of coke, then snort it before the President has time to react. Cocaine can cause heart attacks you know. Plus you never know what's in it, could have been cut with toxic chemicals.

Same principle as jumping in front of a gunman.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:12:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.


Would  not surprise me at all if Obama and/or his staff are doing their best to encourage the old school secret service agents
to leave so they can recruit and put in place a group who are more "pliable and openminded" about Obama and his intentions.



What the dickens does that mean?  USSS agents don't get involved with policy - and policy doesn't affect them professionally.  

Explain.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:51:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know a retired Secret Service Agent who has been helping me in my job search. He tells me Secret Service agents are now leaving the job in droves, and that they can't in good conscience continue to serve under the Obama administration. I respect them putting their principles over career, but it also opens to door to allow in people who's motives, loyalties and backgrounds are highly questionable.


Would  not surprise me at all if Obama and/or his staff are doing their best to encourage the old school secret service agents
to leave so they can recruit and put in place a group who are more "pliable and openminded" about Obama and his intentions.



What the dickens does that mean?  USSS agents don't get involved with policy - and policy doesn't affect them professionally.  

Explain.



Quite simple.....I doubt Obama truly trusts the agents he has around him.....not to keep him alive but to turn a blind eye to his
plans and actions.    If his actions are egregious enough it's possible that some of his protection might make something
public that he does not want out in the open.  It's even remotely possible that they might actually take action directly if
they are patriotic enough and his transgressions blatant enough.....while unlikely would you take that chance if you were
POTUS but were scheming on becoming POTUSFL.

If you have nefarious plans it's safer to surround yourself at ALL levels with persons who believe in the same credo as you.


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