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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/20/2006 9:53:58 AM EDT
With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world. I'm not sure what to think, but I have several questions:

1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?
2. Is capitalism to blame?
3. What will happen if Iran gets Nukes?
4. Should I start planning for the end of civilization as we know it?

I'm interested in other opinions, cause the news just never seems to get any better!




P.S.......or should I stop listening to the "mainstream" media?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:55:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:55:30 AM EDT
Do you really expect a serious discussion?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:55:56 AM EDT
0o0o0ohhh t3h n00o0oes!!1!!111
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:56:40 AM EDT
Not this shit again...
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:56:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 9:58:26 AM EDT
Start planning for the end. The SF is HERE
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:02:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheGunny:



1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?

no. it's a Christian, Islam, don't care world.


2. Is capitalism to blame?

no more than anything else


3. What will happen if Iran gets Nukes?

the US will have to take them seriously.


4. Should I start planning for the end of civilization as we know it?

civilization has been going on for about 10,000 years. it's constantly changing. "as we know it". look at civ 100 years ago and look at it now. both what is the same and differnt. no need to get "ready" for anything. just hang loose and enjoy the ride.


I'm interested in other opinions, cause the news just never seems to get any better

would you sit thru comercials to hear good news? it's all about the arctic storm or the flood or the little girl that was kidnapped and raped... (down the street. next town over or in another part of the country.) they will find one. and you will see her.

bottom line is there is a lot more good than bad. you got to get out and enjoy it!


P.S.......or should I stop listening to the "mainstream" media?

PLEASE!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:05:42 AM EDT
Half of a holy war...it is Islam against all others.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:07:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheGunny:
1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?



Yes, indeed. Well, at least it's Islam versus everybody else. The .gov would never admit we are in a holy war because it would frame the war on terror in a publicly unacceptible way. I'm convinced we ARE in a holy war. Dirka dirka jihad, and all that.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:07:55 AM EDT

The only think I am resonably sure is coming, is Tuesday.


Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:08:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheGunny:
With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world. I'm not sure what to think, but I have several questions:

1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?
2. Is capitalism to blame?
3. What will happen if Iran gets Nukes?
4. Should I start planning for the end of civilization as we know it?

I'm interested in other opinions, cause the news just never seems to get any better!




P.S.......or should I stop listening to the "mainstream" media?



Well, if we can get a good holy war going I'm all for it. We really need to commit ourselves to (removed for probable COC violation) off the face of the planet. As long as we can start with Them, whoever they are, I'll throw in on the ammo pool.

I suppose we could get started with the Muslims (code word for Arabs).

I wonder if I just posted a huge COC violation.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:08:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:11:12 AM EDT

Is a Holy War coming????????


Haven't you been paying attention?

IMHO we are at the beginning (the opening shots) of a holy war in everything but name right now. Nobody wants to see the elephant in the room, but it's there, and it's not going away.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:13:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:15:52 AM EDT
it's coming
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:17:08 AM EDT
[quote]Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Do you really expect a serious discussion?



........actually, I'm baiting most of you guys. My wife tells me I get too radical about all this shat! I figure asking these questions will bring out the best in you guys, if I'm reading my fellow posters right!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:18:42 AM EDT
ITEOTWAWKI
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:20:41 AM EDT
nostradamous says the world won't end for another 1000 years or so, so I'm gonna kick back with the hookers and blo and let you guys figure it out
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:21:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 50cal:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
The only think I am resonably sure is coming, is Tuesday.





Are you sure? Monday isn't over yet.




I'm with you - hence my use of "reasonably sure"

I'm not SURE of anything much.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:43:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Is a Holy War coming????????


Haven't you been paying attention?

IMHO we are at the beginning (the opening shots) of a holy war in everything but name right now. Nobody wants to see the elephant in the room, but it's there, and it's not going away.




+1


There is a HUGE Elephant in the room and most people don't want to see it because it's going to get really ugly before it gets better.

America and most other countries = fingers in ears..."la, la, la...la, la, la"

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:51:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheGunny:
With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world. I'm not sure what to think, but I have several questions:

1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?
2. Is capitalism to blame?
3. What will happen if Iran gets Nukes?
4. Should I start planning for the end of civilization as we know it?
quote]

1. Yes.
2. No. UBL, son a a rich capitalist, declared it against us in 1996: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
3. It won't go that far, or, they'll get hit hard.
4. Never a bad idea, but I would consider likely scenarios, e.g. you live near a symbolic or functional target someone'd want to take out, or you're concerned about H5N1 or something that might cause you to hole up in your house for a month.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:55:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By TheGunny:
With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world. I'm not sure what to think, but I have several questions:

1. Is it now a Christian vs. Islam world?
2. Is capitalism to blame?
3. What will happen if Iran gets Nukes?
4. Should I start planning for the end of civilization as we know it?

I'm interested in other opinions, cause the news just never seems to get any better!




P.S.......or should I stop listening to the "mainstream" media?



Well, if we can get a good holy war going I'm all for it. We really need to commit ourselves to (removed for probable COC violation) off the face of the planet. As long as we can start with Them, whoever they are, I'll throw in on the ammo pool.

I suppose we could get started with the Muslims (code word for Arabs
).

I wonder if I just posted a huge COC violation.



Huh?
You do realize there are plenty of Christian and non-Muslim Arabs, right?
That most Muslims are not Arabs.
That you are not talking about a Holy War (which would be based on religion) but in fact genocide?
Dude man, get your shit straight.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:55:26 AM EDT
Is it coming?

Hello! It's ALREADY HERE!

Remember?



And it's not Christianity vs. Islam. It's Islam vs. Humanity.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:56:10 AM EDT

With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world.


This is not a new development.
This stretches back to at least 1979.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 10:58:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheGunny:
With all that's happening in the world, it just seems to me that the radical Islamist are going nuts and causing trouble throughout the world. I'm not sure what to think, but I have several questions:




Are you for real?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:00:25 AM EDT
There have been holy wars going on since pre-history. Moslem vs. Christian is the current biggie for us, but don't forget the Orthodox Serbs vs. Catholics in Bosnia, Hindus vs. Moslems in Asia, Catholics vs. Protestants in Northern Ireland, or Christians vs. indigenous in Rwanda and Uganda.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:00:26 AM EDT
What is has been well on its way to being over for a while now. The wise are preparing for what will be in the future after the dust has settled from the collapse of what currently is.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:00:35 AM EDT
Its here...and has been for a while....
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:13:55 AM EDT
Yes and it's here IMHO
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:22:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Yes and it's here IMHO




Yes, but will it ever get to the point that they (radical Islams) are rioting in our street, burning our cars and killing American infidels? Car bombings daily, planes flying into more of our buildings and random violence like that? Will Americans let it get that bad? I think the Left might!
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:26:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 11:29:22 AM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By TheGunny:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Yes and it's here IMHO




Yes, but will it ever get to the point that they (radical Islams) are rioting in our street, burning our cars and killing American infidels? Car bombings daily, planes flying into more of our buildings and random violence like that? Will Americans let it get that bad? I think the Left might!



I doubt it.
The conditions don't exist.
If there are areas of the US (Lackawanna/Dearborn (Thanks Macman37) where you have a segment of segregated, uneducated, muslim immigrants, than you will see it in those areas.
But the doctors, lawyers, professors, buisness owners, etc will not be the one's rioting.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:27:01 AM EDT
The world will be determined by evolution and demographics. It will be a non-white world.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:27:02 AM EDT
FYI it's Dearborn MI
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:32:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 11:49:01 AM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By macman37:
FYI it's Dearborn MI




Michigan has, what? over 300,000 muslims right now? And most of those are of middle eastern decent.

Yeah, at some point their country of birth will override our Constitutional rule over them and they won't care what the law says, they'll go by their Sharia law. Then the game will be on full tilt.

These radicals are only biding their time here, because they know, if they start something in America they had better be fully prepared to finish it, because real Americans won't stand for that crap. Not one bit.

Some tidbits for some of you that think Sharia law (Islamic law followed by muslims) and the Constitution can co-exist...


A Muslim is not free to believe or do what he wishes. He is under Islamic law, which was derived and assimilated from the Qur´an, the example of Muhammad (sunna), the final analogy (qijas) and consensus (idjmaa).

Islam describes Muslims as worshippers and slaves of Allah (ibaad Allah). They have submitted themselves to him and are therefore his possession. The word Islam means, "surrender, devotion and submission".

Whoever falls away from faith in Islam commits -- from an Islamic perspective -- an unforgivable sin. He takes himself away from Allah, his owner -- which is theft -- and weakens the Islamic state, an action branded as revolt or insurrection. He who falls away from Islam must, according to the Sharia, be prosecuted, taken into custody by force, and called on to repent. If necessary, his return is to be "helped" along with torture. He who does not embrace Islam again has, according to the Sharia, forfeited his life and is to be put to death by the state. According to the daily paper, Al Alam, King Hassan II of Morocco, who is also the imam of his country, presented the following state of affairs before a human rights commission on May 15, 1990:

"If a Muslim says, 'I have embraced another religion instead of Islam,' he -- before he is called to repentance -- will be brought before a group of medical specialists, so that they can examine him to see if he is still in his right mind.

After he has then been called to repentance, but decides to hold fast to the testimony of another religion not coming from Allah -- that is, not Islam -- he will be judged."





Sharia (Arabic: شريعة; also Sharī'ah, Shari'a, Shariah or Syariah) is the Arabic word for Islamic law, also known as the Law of Allah. Islam classically draws no distinction between religious and secular life. Hence Sharia covers not only religious rituals, but many aspects of day-to-day life, politics, economics, banking, business or contract law, and social issues. Most of the time the term Sharia is used to exclusively refer to law based on Islamic legal theory at the level before the 19th century, to the exclusion of reformed Islamic legal theory.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:47:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By TheGunny:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Yes and it's here IMHO




Yes, but will it ever get to the point that they (radical Islams) are rioting in our street, burning our cars and killing American infidels? Car bombings daily, planes flying into more of our buildings and random violence like that? Will Americans let it get that bad? I think the Left might!



I doubt it.
The conditions don't exist.
If there are areas of the US (Lackawanna/Dearborn (Thanks Macman37) where you have a segment of segregated, uneducated, muslim immigrants, than you will see it in those areas.
But the doctors, lawyers, professors, buisness owners, etc will not be the one's rioting.



You always say this sort of thing....but I disagree. Why can't a doctor, lawyer, business owner be any less of a devout muslim who would put sharia law and islam above being an American?

I really think you miss the point that most true, devout muslims will always be muslim first, American second. Their religion will always come first.

And when their religion or religious leaders tell them, "Its time, time to rise up and make the US an islamic state" your doctor, your professors, your friends...if they are truly muslims, will come for your head....You don't think there educated people strapping bombs to themselves over there, or fighting with the terrorists?

Trust me, for a true muslim, lifestyle, their big house, etc, don't mean nothin'.

Secular muslims are a different story...but true muslims will follow their faith....
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:55:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By TheGunny:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Yes and it's here IMHO




Yes, but will it ever get to the point that they (radical Islams) are rioting in our street, burning our cars and killing American infidels? Car bombings daily, planes flying into more of our buildings and random violence like that? Will Americans let it get that bad? I think the Left might!



I doubt it.
The conditions don't exist.
If there are areas of the US (Lackawanna/Dearborn (Thanks Macman37) where you have a segment of segregated, uneducated, muslim immigrants, than you will see it in those areas.
But the doctors, lawyers, professors, buisness owners, etc will not be the one's rioting.



You always say this sort of thing....but I disagree. Why can't a doctor, lawyer, business owner be any less of a devout muslim who would put sharia law and islam above being an American?

I really think you miss the point that most true, devout muslims will always be muslim first, American second. Their religion will always come first.

And when their religion or religious leaders tell them, "Its time, time to rise up and make the US an islamic state" your doctor, your professors, your friends...if they are truly muslims, will come for your head....You don't think there educated people strapping bombs to themselves over there, or fighting with the terrorists?

Trust me, for a true muslim, lifestyle, their big house, etc, don't mean nothin'.

Secular muslims are a different story...but true muslims will follow their faith
....



Agreed.
I have always felt that "devout" muslims do not really make it far in life.

Most of the muslim doctors, lawyers, professors, etc that I know are "Muslim" in quotes.
Not a one of them has a beard, they all refer to "Allah" as God, when speaking in English, etc.
Not one of them has ever said "excuse me, this is during the prayer time" and inturrupted our meeting or meal to pray.
Several of them voted for George Bush, because they support the toppling of the dictators in the Middle East.

They are more monotheist, than Muslims, if that makes sense.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:58:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By macman37:
FYI it's Dearborn MI




Michigan has, what? over 300,000 muslims right now? And most of those are of middle eastern decent.

Yeah, at some point their country of birth will override our Constitutional rule over them and they won't care what the law says, they'll go by their Sharia law. Then the game will be on full tilt.

These radicals are only biding their time here, because they know, if they start something in America they had better be fully prepared to finish it, because real Americans won't stand for that crap. Not one bit.

Some tidbits for some of you that think Sharia law (Islamic law followed by muslims) and the Constitution can co-exist...


A Muslim is not free to believe or do what he wishes. He is under Islamic law, which was derived and assimilated from the Qur´an, the example of Muhammad (sunna), the final analogy (qijas) and consensus (idjmaa).

Islam describes Muslims as worshippers and slaves of Allah (ibaad Allah). They have submitted themselves to him and are therefore his possession. The word Islam means, "surrender, devotion and submission".

Whoever falls away from faith in Islam commits -- from an Islamic perspective -- an unforgivable sin. He takes himself away from Allah, his owner -- which is theft -- and weakens the Islamic state, an action branded as revolt or insurrection. He who falls away from Islam must, according to the Sharia, be prosecuted, taken into custody by force, and called on to repent. If necessary, his return is to be "helped" along with torture. He who does not embrace Islam again has, according to the Sharia, forfeited his life and is to be put to death by the state. According to the daily paper, Al Alam, King Hassan II of Morocco, who is also the imam of his country, presented the following state of affairs before a human rights commission on May 15, 1990:

"If a Muslim says, 'I have embraced another religion instead of Islam,' he -- before he is called to repentance -- will be brought before a group of medical specialists, so that they can examine him to see if he is still in his right mind.

After he has then been called to repentance, but decides to hold fast to the testimony of another religion not coming from Allah -- that is, not Islam -- he will be judged."





Sharia (Arabic: ?????; also Shar?'ah, Shari'a, Shariah or Syariah) is the Arabic word for Islamic law, also known as the Law of Allah. Islam classically draws no distinction between religious and secular life. Hence Sharia covers not only religious rituals, but many aspects of day-to-day life, politics, economics, banking, business or contract law, and social issues. Most of the time the term Sharia is used to exclusively refer to law based on Islamic legal theory at the level before the 19th century, to the exclusion of reformed Islamic legal theory.



+1 and I'm sure you already know this Lippo but those Arabs in Michigan are ALREADY flexing their will- there has been a bit of a legal battle over having the Muslim call to prayer blasted out of speakers in (IIRC) Hamtramck...

Also, I read something a ways back that said the way Shari'a law worked, if a Muslim establishes a Mosque on new land (like, the US), that land is Muslim land and can be "retaken" by the sword (or bomb) if necessary. I don't remember where I read that and I haven't picked up a copy of "the Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" yet to make sure
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:09:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
It's Islam vs. Humanity.



+1
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:18:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

You always say this sort of thing....but I disagree. Why can't a doctor, lawyer, business owner be any less of a devout muslim who would put sharia law and islam above being an American?

I really think you miss the point that most true, devout muslims will always be muslim first, American second. Their religion will always come first.

And when their religion or religious leaders tell them, "Its time, time to rise up and make the US an islamic state" your doctor, your professors, your friends...if they are truly muslims, will come for your head....You don't think there educated people strapping bombs to themselves over there, or fighting with the terrorists?

Trust me, for a true muslim, lifestyle, their big house, etc, don't mean nothin'.

Secular muslims are a different story...but true muslims will follow their faith
....



Agreed.
I have always felt that "devout" muslims do not really make it far in life.

Most of the muslim doctors, lawyers, professors, etc that I know are "Muslim" in quotes.
Not a one of them has a beard, they all refer to "Allah" as God, when speaking in English, etc.
Not one of them has ever said "excuse me, this is during the prayer time" and inturrupted our meeting or meal to pray.
Several of them voted for George Bush, because they support the toppling of the dictators in the Middle East.

They are more monotheist, than Muslims, if that makes sense.



I know there are lots of muslims, who are muslim in name only. There is nothing to worry about with people like these. I understand and believe that.

But I would also say there are lots of true believers who are doctors, lawyers, professors, students, nurses, whatever. Maybe not ones you know, but they come in all flavors and styles...

The ones who stop everything five times a day to face east are the ones to worry about. Again the thing that always worries me with devout muslims is the fact that being American will always come second to being muslim. That is why I find it dfficult not to have that nagging suspicion that one day the S will HTF here. Way too many devout ones, and its growing every day....
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:21:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By macman37:
FYI it's Dearborn MI




Michigan has, what? over 300,000 muslims right now? And most of those are of middle eastern decent.

Yeah, at some point their country of birth will override our Constitutional rule over them and they won't care what the law says, they'll go by their Sharia law. Then the game will be on full tilt.

These radicals are only biding their time here, because they know, if they start something in America they had better be fully prepared to finish it, because real Americans won't stand for that crap. Not one bit.

Some tidbits for some of you that think Sharia law (Islamic law followed by muslims) and the Constitution can co-exist...


A Muslim is not free to believe or do what he wishes. He is under Islamic law, which was derived and assimilated from the Qur´an, the example of Muhammad (sunna), the final analogy (qijas) and consensus (idjmaa).

Islam describes Muslims as worshippers and slaves of Allah (ibaad Allah). They have submitted themselves to him and are therefore his possession. The word Islam means, "surrender, devotion and submission".

Whoever falls away from faith in Islam commits -- from an Islamic perspective -- an unforgivable sin. He takes himself away from Allah, his owner -- which is theft -- and weakens the Islamic state, an action branded as revolt or insurrection. He who falls away from Islam must, according to the Sharia, be prosecuted, taken into custody by force, and called on to repent. If necessary, his return is to be "helped" along with torture. He who does not embrace Islam again has, according to the Sharia, forfeited his life and is to be put to death by the state. According to the daily paper, Al Alam, King Hassan II of Morocco, who is also the imam of his country, presented the following state of affairs before a human rights commission on May 15, 1990:

"If a Muslim says, 'I have embraced another religion instead of Islam,' he -- before he is called to repentance -- will be brought before a group of medical specialists, so that they can examine him to see if he is still in his right mind.

After he has then been called to repentance, but decides to hold fast to the testimony of another religion not coming from Allah -- that is, not Islam -- he will be judged."





Sharia (Arabic: ?????; also Shar?'ah, Shari'a, Shariah or Syariah) is the Arabic word for Islamic law, also known as the Law of Allah. Islam classically draws no distinction between religious and secular life. Hence Sharia covers not only religious rituals, but many aspects of day-to-day life, politics, economics, banking, business or contract law, and social issues. Most of the time the term Sharia is used to exclusively refer to law based on Islamic legal theory at the level before the 19th century, to the exclusion of reformed Islamic legal theory.



+1 and I'm sure you already know this Lippo but those Arabs in Michigan are ALREADY flexing their will- there has been a bit of a legal battle over having the Muslim call to prayer blasted out of speakers in (IIRC) Hamtramck...

Also, I read something a ways back that said the way Shari'a law worked, if a Muslim establishes a Mosque on new land (like, the US), that land is Muslim land and can be "retaken" by the sword (or bomb) if necessary. I don't remember where I read that and I haven't picked up a copy of "the Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" yet to make sure



You mean this?


Excerpt K 9:029
Set 38, Count 101

Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.





Wait until Hamtramck gets a muslim majority in their local government. You want to see changes to the rule of law in that local.

- Qu'ran in Sura 2:216 tells Muslims that war is good.
- Qu'ran says in Sura 9:5 to slay those who will not believe in Islam
- Qu'ran in Sura 5:33 to execute those who resist Islam.




Link Posted: 2/20/2006 1:25:01 PM EDT
wont matter after 2012...
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