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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/5/2005 2:56:32 AM EDT
Just saw this on the atf website.

www.atf.gov/firearms/071105openletter.pdf

I wonder if we'll see cheap SA M193 again??
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:00:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 3:02:48 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
They did mention Denel specifically. I'm pretty sure that's who made the SA M193.

Boy, I sure hope this turns out to be the case. I do miss the SA M193.

BTW, if there was some sort of law blocking the importation of this ammo enacted in 1994, then how did so much of it get here? Was it simply because it was 80's ammo made prior to this and was somehow grandfathered through?

When the SA started to dry up, I just assumed that it was the end of that batch of surplus. Oh well, learn something new each day I suppose. Hopefully, if this is what it sounds like, maybe Denel will make and sell new production M193 to us.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:07:31 AM EDT
I didn't have such great results with South African surplus. It was accurate and HOT, but I had extraction issues with it. The rims would rip and fail to extract reliably. LC, WCC, Winchester brass don't have this issue. Wolf has the same problem. It's chrome lined 5.56 chamber so I don't get it. If it works great for you then more power to you, but I will pass on it. It is good news since most people love it. MJD
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:14:26 AM EDT
Highwayman, I';m surprised to hear you had bad results with SA surplus. It works great for me. I've used it in AR15s, M16s, the Steyr Aug and a M249 SAW.

Is it possible you have a .223 chamber and not a 5.56 chamber causing overpressure? What kind of rifle are you using?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:22:30 AM EDT
I never had an issue with the SA M193 in any rifles that had chrome chamber/bores. My DPMS and Oly had issues but they're now long gone. I've fired it in my Cav uppers as well as my Colt with no issues.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:26:31 AM EDT
If the SA M193 is coming back, and the price is decent, I'm buying a sh*t load!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:33:10 AM EDT
Well, it only took the feds 11 years to inform us that SA was importable again. . .
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:38:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Well, it only took the feds 11 years to inform us that SA was importable again. . .



Yeah and I thought my NFA transfers were taking too long
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:39:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:11:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:13:04 AM EDT by highwayman]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Highwayman, I';m surprised to hear you had bad results with SA surplus. It works great for me. I've used it in AR15s, M16s, the Steyr Aug and a M249 SAW.

Is it possible you have a .223 chamber and not a 5.56 chamber causing overpressure? What kind of rifle are you using?



Definitely not a .223 chamber. It's a 16" CMMG Mod4 barrel marked "C MP CMMG 5.56NATO 1/7" I may have gotten the order wrong but you get the idea. Wolf and SA do the same thing, rim gets sheered off about once every 30 rounds or so. The chamber is clean. I was thinking about dropping an H2 buffer in there instead of my H buffer to see if that would cure the problem by slowing down the bolt speed. Don't know what's causing it but it runs XM193, Q3131A (loves this stuff), and Winchester just fine. MJD

ETA: Sorry about the slight thread hijack.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:19:10 AM EDT
Love that stuff, just bought 10 packs couple of weeks ago.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:27:06 AM EDT
Man, I hope this is true......great ammo whenever I shot it....
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:29:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Love that stuff, just bought 10 packs couple of weeks ago.



Where? Please tell.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:31:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Love that stuff, just bought 10 packs couple of weeks ago.



Where? Please tell.



On the EE
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:32:35 AM EDT
Anyone in the industry out there know if it'll be in the pipeline any time soon?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:32:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Highwayman, I';m surprised to hear you had bad results with SA surplus. It works great for me. I've used it in AR15s, M16s, the Steyr Aug and a M249 SAW.

Is it possible you have a .223 chamber and not a 5.56 chamber causing overpressure? What kind of rifle are you using?



me to, the SA stuff is also most accurate in all my AR's. I love the stuff .... still have a few thousand rounds, I need more!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:37:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
If the SA M193 is coming back, and the price is decent, I'm buying a sh*t load!!



That just about sums it up for me.
+1
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 6:10:43 AM EDT
Did anybody read the letter? It really makes you question how government manages to work at all...

Basically, it appears the ATF cut off import of South African ammo because there were sanctions against buuying defense-related items from South Africa. Of course, those sanction had ended in 1994; but State didn't get around to notifying ATF until March 2005.

As a result, after only five months of deliberation on whether it was now OK to ignore sanctions that had been dead for over a decade, the ATF made the bold decision to move forward and allow the import of South African ammo.

Bravo to the ATF! I am sure the urge to appoint a 30-member inter-governmental agency commission to examine the issue and report back no later than March 2014 was overwhelming. At least they did the right thing and in bureaucratic time, did it rather quickly even.
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