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Posted: 5/25/2018 1:28:55 PM EDT
NFPA does one for fire and I am sure there are some for police. Our ambulance company wrote their own response guidelines and I need to have some information to support why they should be adjusted lower. Is there any group such as NREMT, NAEMT or another group that publishes a best practices or standards along with data. I have read some in JEMS but it varies from area to area
Link Posted: 5/25/2018 6:36:09 PM EDT
Not sure as I haven’t looked into it but we can run a query for analytics on or reporting system. It has a drop down for changing what criteria we want to look at. Two of them are NFPA 1710 BLS/AED agency and NFPA 1710 EMS ALS agency.

The criteria for compliance is:

BLS. Turn out time: 1:00, Travel time: 4:00, compliance percentage 90% and minimum EMT-B staff of 2.

ALS Turn out time 1:00, Travel time 8:00, compliance percentage 90% and minimum staffing of EMT-B staff of 2 EMT-P staff of 2.

I personally don’t do our analytics. Just throwing this out to you and hope this helps.
Link Posted: 5/25/2018 6:50:55 PM EDT
I’ve always heard 8 minute response time in 90% of calls and that’s what both agencies I have worked for have used as a benchmark but I’m not sure if/where it would be nationally published or if it’s just a recognized industry standard.
Link Posted: 5/25/2018 7:52:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2018 7:55:24 PM EDT by KR20]
Link Posted: 5/26/2018 9:41:26 AM EDT
Maybe check with:

CAAS

Or

American Ambulance Association
Link Posted: 5/26/2018 2:47:22 PM EDT
All very helpful answers!Thanks guys .
Link Posted: 5/26/2018 3:28:28 PM EDT
Are you talking response times only, or level of care (ALS/BLS) sent?
Link Posted: 5/26/2018 5:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2018 5:54:10 PM EDT by Southrnshooter]
This may not help but we use ProQa in our 911 center. After calls are queried and a response is dictated, units are dispatched per severity. We are a large county with county fire departments (part paid/volunteer) and 2 city fire departments. Plus a county ran EMS.

Alpha calls get EMS non emergency.
Bravo gets county fire emergency and EMS emergency. City does not run Bravo with the exception of vehicle accidents. Because there are more EMS units in the city
Charlie gets all fire and EMS emergency
Delta is same as Charlie just a higher level of call
Echo is an immediate life threat and gets everyone even supervisors going..

Fire can and does fill in often when EMS runs out of units. Happens every day seems like.

Link Posted: 6/1/2018 3:45:34 PM EDT
NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 5:45:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 9:34:02 PM EDT
I am familiar with pro qa. Thanks for the help guys. Looks like we will be asking IAFF to do a study soon
Link Posted: 6/15/2018 9:37:08 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By oneilljb:
NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.
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Very helpful!
Link Posted: 6/20/2018 6:31:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By oneilljb:
NFPA 1710 includes response time and staffing information for EMS as well as fire. You can read alot of the information used to justify the standard here.
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Laughable IAFF propaganda.
Link Posted: 6/20/2018 10:20:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2018 10:22:20 PM EDT by oneilljb]
Disregard
Link Posted: 6/20/2018 10:24:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Alive:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.
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Please elaborate
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 12:58:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
Please elaborate
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If you are not aware of the fallacies of IAFF and IAFC fire based EMS propaganda, then I have to ask if you're really the best person to be advising anyone on how to set up their EMS system.

Guide your response time percentile targets based on the current science surrounding time sensitive emergencies, and your system's unique geographical challenges; not what Harold Shitaburger or whoever is in charge of the IAFF now tells you to do, directly or through the network of BS they've worked their tendrills into.
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 1:13:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/25/2018 1:16:41 PM EDT by Alive]
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Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
Please elaborate
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Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
Originally Posted By Alive:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.
Please elaborate
Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 7:50:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Alive:
Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.
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Originally Posted By Alive:
Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
Originally Posted By Alive:

Laughable IAFF propaganda.
Please elaborate
Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.
You do realize that, like it or not, much of the EMS in the United States is fire-based, right?
Why don't you specifically state your opposition to the standards referenced, instead of generalized IAFF bashing?
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 8:13:14 PM EDT
No standard per se, but derivative of AHA-CPR data says, under most circumstances, 4 min or the head's dead. In Seattle, where an Engine Company's response time is around 2 min. to most of the city, when they put AED's and defibrillators on the engines their save rate went through the roof...made the Medic units blush.
Link Posted: 6/25/2018 8:57:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Alive:

Consider for a moment that you have a report written in a scholarly article format allegedly conveying the findings of EMS response experiments, with an IAFF logo plastered on the front and not a single mention of the potential for a conflict of interest having a 300,000 member fire union involved with this.
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can you provide a non biased study by someone not affiliated with fire or ems?
Link Posted: 6/26/2018 9:47:19 PM EDT
Alive is right on!
Link Posted: 6/27/2018 10:51:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZootTX:
You do realize that, like it or not, much of the EMS in the United States is fire-based, right?
Why don't you specifically state your opposition to the standards referenced, instead of generalized IAFF bashing?
View Quote
So the basis for your point of view is that everyone's doing it?

So when all your friends jump off a bridge, you're going to do it too?

Let's see..... You do realize that, like it or not, firearms ownership is prohibited for most people in the world, right? Maybe you should be disarmed under force of law for your own good since everyone else is doing it.
Link Posted: 6/27/2018 10:57:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
can you provide a non biased study by someone not affiliated with fire or ems?
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No such study exists without giant gaping flaws.
Link Posted: 6/27/2018 11:03:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lafmedic1:
I have read some in JEMS but it varies from area to area
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This is because each area has different geography, different funding, and different, unique challenges. The NFPA/IAFF/IAFC trinity godhead has a notoriously difficult time adapting to real world circumstances and does a poor job at providing all the answers.
Link Posted: 6/27/2018 11:05:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Swatrock:
Alive is right on!
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Much obliged.
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