dam just dam


www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8812439/


COLUMBUS, Ohio - Rosemary Palmer and her husband were making plans to attend memorial services for six Marine reservists killed earlier this week — five of them from the same battalion as her son, Lance Cpl. Edward Schroeder — when two uniformed servicemen came down her street.

It was her family’s turn.

“We knew. They didn’t even get a chance to knock,” Palmer said.

For relatives of those in the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, there has been a sudden spike in such grim visits from uniformed servicemen.

Schroeder, 23, of Cleveland, and 13 more Marines from the Ohio-based battalion were killed Wednesday along with a civilian interpreter in the deadliest roadside bombing in Iraq.

The Marines’ deaths, along with two others slain July 28, brought the battalion’s toll to 21 in a week. Eleven of those were part of the same Columbus-based unit, Lima Company, that lost four Marines in a single day in May.

Twenty pink roses and a teddy bear were propped Thursday morning up on the sign that identifies Lima Company headquarters, and the fence that surrounds it had a yellow ribbon and a balloon with the words “proud and free” written on it.

'A little bit ridiculous'
Pat Wilsox, who manages a doughnut shop by the battalion’s headquarters in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park, threw her hand over her heart when she heard of the latest deaths.

“Oh my God,” she said softly. “I’m all for protection but this is getting a little bit ridiculous.”

Lance Cpl. Timothy Michael Bell Jr., 22, of West Chester, Lance Cpl. Brett Wightman, 22, of Sabina and Lance Cpl. Michael Cifuentes, 25, of Oxford, were among the Lima Company casualties, said relatives and a spokesman for one family. Military officials said they would not release a list of the dead until they finished tracking down relatives.

Among the members of Lima Company is Lance Cpl. John David “J.D.” Coleman, son of Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman. The family had not heard anything on his status as of Wednesday, said Mike Brown, the mayor’s spokesman.

Isolde Zierk, 59, coordinator of Lima Company’s family support group, found an answering machine full of messages from worried families when she got to her Columbus home after work Wednesday evening. A neighbor stopped by to see if she’d heard anything about her own son, Sgt. Guy Zierk, 29, who serves in Lima Company. She hadn’t.

“My stomach’s in knots,” she said, choking back tears.

Mohammed Modiur Rahman, 54, of Columbus, said he last heard from his son, Cpl. Mohammed N. Rahman, about three days earlier. The Marine sounded nervous, his father said.

The father said his son told him he lost his best friend in the unit, Cpl. Andre L. Williams, who was killed last Thursday when Lima Company came under attack near Cykla in western Iraq.

A rising toll
Jeff Mers, commander of a VFW post that has raised money and sent care packages to Lima Company, said that even before this week’s attacks, he and other veterans were dazed from attending funerals of those killed in Iraq.

“I think I’ve been to nine of these just in central Ohio in the past few months,” he said outside Lima Company’s headquarters.

The front door of the Montgomery family home in Willoughby east of Cleveland is decorated with two blue stars, one for each of the sons who served with the Marines in Iraq.

Eric Montgomery, 21, will be coming home soon — but only to escort the body of his older brother, 26-year-old Lance Cpl. Brian Montgomery, among the six killed in Monday’s attack.

Palmer said she and her husband, Paul Schroeder, last spoke with their son about a week ago. He said he was tired of flushing insurgents out of the same places, just to have them reappear with better weapons.

“He said the closer they got to the time to come home, the less it was worth it,” she said.

Battalion has storied history
The 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, was first activated on May 1, 1943, and fought in several battles in World War II. It helped capture a key airfield at the Battle of Iwo Jima in the Pacific. Members, based in this blue-collar Cleveland suburb of 21,000, were activated in January and went to Iraq in March.

Lt. Col. Kevin Rush, part of the family notification detail, said the volunteers were aware of the risks.

“Everyone who joins the battalion knows what they are getting into,” he said. “It’s infantry. They are at the front line.”

Donald Morgan, 21, of Parma Heights, another Cleveland suburb, just finished a tour of duty and is planning to re-enlist. He had yet to serve in Iraq but said going was “not a problem.”

“All Marines are brothers,” he said, placing two flags amid flowers, crosses and stuffed animals at display outside battalion headquarters. “I only took a moment to reflect on it. We all have a job to do.”

wow

I still say we need to equip humvees with scanners that will activate the IED's before our convoys reach them.  Just find a way to send out random signals.

Quoted: wow I still say we need to equip humvees with scanners that will activate the IED's before our convoys reach them.  Just find a way to send out random signals.

yeah they do but the problem was from what i read forgot what site i was on that particular aav had no buisness that far forward in combat it was designed to get the marines on to the beach maybe go a little inward but not be in full combat not armored enough just like the hummers

that is why the marines have the lav-25 for combat ops no one can tell the parents of these brave marines why  the hell the aavs are in direct combat just like they can not tell the parents of army personell why the hell the hummer is in direct combat.

just a bad situation

here is a link to the to vehicles

aav
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/aav7a1.htm


lav-25
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav.htm

The front door of the Montgomery family home in Willoughby east of Cleveland is decorated with two blue stars, one for each of the sons who served with the Marines in Iraq. Eric Montgomery, 21, will be coming home soon — but only to escort the body of his older brother, 26-year-old Lance Cpl. Brian Montgomery, among the six killed in Monday’s attack.

Brothers and Marines...

Quoted: The front door of the Montgomery family home in Willoughby east of Cleveland is decorated with two blue stars, one for each of the sons who served with the Marines in Iraq. Eric Montgomery, 21, will be coming home soon — but only to escort the body of his older brother, 26-year-old Lance Cpl. Brian Montgomery, among the six killed in Monday’s attack. Brothers and Marines...

dam is that town a small town or just a real tight nit community where every one knows every one

Quoted: Quoted: The front door of the Montgomery family home in Willoughby east of Cleveland is decorated with two blue stars, one for each of the sons who served with the Marines in Iraq. Eric Montgomery, 21, will be coming home soon — but only to escort the body of his older brother, 26-year-old Lance Cpl. Brian Montgomery, among the six killed in Monday’s attack. Brothers and Marines... dam is that town a small town or just a real tight nit community where every one knows every one

Brookpark is a suburb of Cleveland,the population of BP is around 21,000

Most of the guys are not from Brookpark,they are from Cleveland and surrounding areas.The reserve center is based in Brookpark

Cleveland and areas around are manufactoring towns ie:Ford,Chevy,J+L steel (now closed) which resulted in a lot of rural families moving to the area.Rural families are on the whole more close knit and supportive of our troops.Right now this area is in a state of shock,I have been answering phone calls from people I have not heard from in 5-10 years asking about my son.

Quoted: Quoted: wow I still say we need to equip humvees with scanners that will activate the IED's before our convoys reach them.  Just find a way to send out random signals. yeah they do but the problem was from what i read forgot what site i was on that particular aav had no buisness that far forward in combat it was designed to get the marines on to the beach maybe go a little inward but not be in full combat not armored enough just like the hummers that is why the marines have the lav-25 for combat ops no one can tell the parents of these brave marines why  the hell the aavs are in direct combat just like they can not tell the parents of army personell why the hell the hummer is in direct combat. just a bad situation here is a link to the to vehicles aav www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/aav7a1.htm lav-25 www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav.htm

I seriously doubt the LAV is significantly better armored than the AAV, if at all. The AAV is designed to land Marines under fire, whereas the LAV is, at heart, a recon vehicle. The Marines have used the AAV as an infantry carrier in the past and intend their next AAV to function as an IFV.

This second-guessing is pissing me off. If the armchair quarterbacks had their way, our troops would drive nothing but M1A2's whenever they left base.

These Marines did their job bravely and paid the ultimate price. May their brethren wreak vengence for them.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wow I still say we need to equip humvees with scanners that will activate the IED's before our convoys reach them.  Just find a way to send out random signals. yeah they do but the problem was from what i read forgot what site i was on that particular aav had no buisness that far forward in combat it was designed to get the marines on to the beach maybe go a little inward but not be in full combat not armored enough just like the hummers that is why the marines have the lav-25 for combat ops no one can tell the parents of these brave marines why  the hell the aavs are in direct combat just like they can not tell the parents of army personell why the hell the hummer is in direct combat. just a bad situation here is a link to the to vehicles aav www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/aav7a1.htm lav-25 www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav.htm I seriously doubt the LAV is significantly better armored than the AAV, if at all. The AAV is designed to land Marines under fire, whereas the LAV is, at heart, a recon vehicle. The Marines have used the AAV as an infantry carrier in the past and intend their next AAV to function as an IFV. This second-guessing is pissing me off. If the armchair quarterbacks had their way, our troops would drive nothing but M1A2's whenever they left base. These Marines did their job bravely and paid the ultimate price. May their brethren wreak vengence for them.

BTT
i know that was not saying anything bad about them just saying not the best vehicles for the job at hand

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wow I still say we need to equip humvees with scanners that will activate the IED's before our convoys reach them.  Just find a way to send out random signals. yeah they do but the problem was from what i read forgot what site i was on that particular aav had no buisness that far forward in combat it was designed to get the marines on to the beach maybe go a little inward but not be in full combat not armored enough just like the hummers that is why the marines have the lav-25 for combat ops no one can tell the parents of these brave marines why  the hell the aavs are in direct combat just like they can not tell the parents of army personell why the hell the hummer is in direct combat. just a bad situation here is a link to the to vehicles aav www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/aav7a1.htm lav-25 www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav.htm I seriously doubt the LAV is significantly better armored than the AAV, if at all. The AAV is designed to land Marines under fire, whereas the LAV is, at heart, a recon vehicle. The Marines have used the AAV as an infantry carrier in the past and intend their next AAV to function as an IFV. This second-guessing is pissing me off. If the armchair quarterbacks had their way, our troops would drive nothing but M1A2's whenever they left base. These Marines did their job bravely and paid the ultimate price. May their brethren wreak vengence for them. BTT i know that was not saying anything bad about them just saying not the best vehicles for the job at hand

So what the hell is the best vehicle for the job?

LAVs, Strykers, Bradleys, 113s, AAVs, etc; all are pretty much protected against small arms and artillery fragments, a large IED detonated close to the vehicle would destroy any of them.

Quoted: BTT i know that was not saying anything bad about them just saying not the best vehicles for the job at hand

Understood. I read some artilce quoting a defense analyst talking about the armor on these; may not have been the same one you read.

www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/12298112.htm

...snip... Officials in Washington acknowledged that the Marines were riding in a vehicle designed 40 years ago for a different kind of warfare: the beach assaults the Marines made famous at Iwo Jima and elsewhere in the Pacific during World War II. The AAVP7A1 “armored assault amphibious fully-tracked landing vehicle” is essentially a modern variant of the WWII model, designed to carry troops from ship to shore and for use in land operations, according to a Marine Corps fact sheet. It travels at about 6 mph through surf and sand and can cruise at about 20 mph on land. But those kinds of missions were “combined-arms” assaults, backed by heavy amounts of air, ship and artillery support, said Daniel Goure, a military analyst at The Lexington Institute, a policy group based in Alexandria, Va. The vehicle wasn’t designed to engage in the kind of day-to-day patrolling of insurgent-controlled territory that the Marines are doing in western Iraq. During the initial assault into Iraq, many of the vehicles broke down on the long drive to Baghdad and had to be towed by other vehicles. “It is very lightly armored. It is underpowered. It is essentially a big boat on land, and that makes it vulnerable,” said Goure. “It was never intended for these kind of missions. It was never designed for the kind of beating it has been getting.” While many lawmakers have been clamoring for the Pentagon to add more armor to vehicles in Iraq to counter bombs, Goure said the issue isn’t that simple. “There are not enough main battle tanks in the world to equip the forces in Iraq,” he said. “There is no way to equip these forces to withstand a direct hit from a 1,000- to 2,000-pound IED.” Insurgents have proved adept in recent days in attacking far more heavily armored vehicles. In the past two weeks, at least 31 U.S. soldiers and Marines have died in roadside bombings. At least three of the bombings that killed soldiers involved armored Humvees, including two incidents that killed eight members of the Georgia National Guard’s 48th Combat Brigade Task Force. Five soldiers were killed in two separate incidents involving Bradley fighting vehicles, the military’s most heavily armored infantry carrier.

The point is that short of a tank, you're not going to be able to armor yourself against these latest IED's, and we need to stop thinking defensively about how much steel we can bolt onto our vehicles so we can continue to drive around getting blown around, and start taking the fight to them. I am pissed as hell at the signs of Syrian involvement in the latest wave of attacks and wish we'd do something about Asad..... like invade.

Quoted: So what the hell is the best vehicle for the job? LAVs, Strykers, Bradleys, 113s, AAVs, etc; all are pretty much protected against small arms and artillery fragments, a large IED detonated close to the vehicle would destroy any of them.

+1

What other vehicle in the USMC inventory do you suggest for moving 20-25 Marines through an urban comabt environment?

tap tap

This is tragic beyond words.

Even people without family/friends in the USMC are feeling this here in Cleveland.

I wish I could do more to help during times like these.

Many IED's are rigged from unexploded munitions that we dropped.  Would it be possible to implement a system installed in our ordnance so that should a 2000lb bomb that we dropped not detonate, a secondary system could destroy it and make it unusable for building an IED?  (I know they could probably find Iraqi/Syrian/Russian/etc  ordnance to use, but at least they would not be using our stuff to kill our soldiers)

Quoted: Many IED's are rigged from unexploded munitions that we dropped.  Would it be possible to implement a system installed in our ordnance so that should a 2000lb bomb that we dropped not detonate, a secondary system could destroy it and make it unusable for building an IED?  (I know they could probably find Iraqi/Syrian/Russian/etc  ordnance to use, but at least they would not be using our stuff to kill our soldiers)

In theory that sounds great, but the problem is that they don't need to use our munitions as there are hundreds of thousands of Iraqi shells available for them to use....You can't swing a dead cat in Iraq without hitting some type of munitions depot or cache...Many of which are still unguarded by Coalition personell.

we are supposedly the most high tech military in the world yet we still have not figured away to stay away from ieds or maybe some type of radio frequency to disable able i mean come on pakistan has figured how to do this and saved the president twice now because of it the bridge was wired to go boom but yet he got across no boom hmmmm we hate pakistan but they are beating us in this area of technology which is not even remotely funny.

i think the petagon needs to take the thumb out of their asses and figure some way to stop the ieds before they go off. alot of countries have this type of technology to stop ieds from blowing yet we are lagging behind again.

now as to the point at hand where the fuck were are praised on uavs which are supposed to help our soldiers and marines bye watching the roads and putting a stop to this senseless killing of our men and women.

i know i was not around for sorry for bringing this up but veitnam same thing we could not stop them from blowing the shit out of our people then and it hurt moral for our troops then just like it is now in iraq.

now is the time for the petagon to stop pussy footing with our guys and give them the stuff they need to prevent these bombs from going off.

a mean godamn if it is a known trouble spot cant our sattalites spot theses little bombs or not or watch over the area.

Posted about this last night. Marines 3rd is about 10 minutes from my house. Some of the Marines killed lived close by. It really hit home when when I drove by their base today, tons of flags and flowers. Too much and too close for me today.