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Posted: 6/13/2009 12:19:34 PM EST

Thousands of angry protesters have clashed with police after President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared the winner of Iran's presidential poll.

Secret police have been attacked, while riot police used batons and tear gas against backers of Mir Hossein Mousavi, who called the results a "charade".

Correspondents say the violence is the worst seen in Tehran in a decade.

In a televised address to the nation, Mr Ahmadinejad thanked voters for giving him a "great victory".

He said the election had been "completely free".

Meanwhile, Mr Mousavi urged his supporters to avoid violence, reports the AFP news agency.

More here:

What do you make of this?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:07:19 PM EST
Stench of massive election fraud...check.


Iran may be about to have another revolution.


I hope they do. Most Iranians are a far better breed of person than the insane mullahs that run the country.


CJ
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:46:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Stench of massive election fraud...check.

Iran may be about to have another revolution.

I hope they do. Most Iranians are a far better breed of person than the insane mullahs that run the country.

CJ


Just looking at the margin, the election is a huge fraud. There have been quite a few reports of ballots being burned and intercepted on the way to being burned. There are a lot of Iranians who are very pro west but don't take my word for it. As well Haaretz reports Mousavi has been arrested. Someone on Fark has an analysis similar to mine but said far better then I can right now (slight headache) so I am just going to post what he said below. At the end of the post there are links to vids, pics, and a few articles. There are a lot of ways this can go but this event is extremely important. I'd say watch for arms trafficking in the future because if they do have a successful revolution in the future, those who supplied the weapons to the victor will share the spoils. Here's to hoping our friends in Iran can live without fear of government persecution in our lifetime.

"It's hard to say where or by who this fraud was commenced. Iranian politics are unbelievably complex and dynamic. The fraud itself might not be the work of the mullahs and Khamenei. But he has immediately endorsed the results, so in the end it doesn't matter. This is unbelievably foolish. The Iranian people have to tolerate quite a lot, and it seemed over the last decade that the regime was able to carefully manage their tolerance. This doesn't step over the line, it hurdles it.

I'm sure the ayatollah plans on dealing with this like past uprisings, but this is way different. They've spat in the face of every Iranian in the most participated election they've ever had. Their legitimacy within Iran has deteriorated in ways they can't imagine. I cannot believe they are acting so foolish, but they'll suffer the consequences one way or another. The people there will not forget this. And by people, I also include those within the government and leaders like Rafsanjani and Khatami. The govt has farked with these folks in a serious way. They have influence, and they have friends, including some of the mullahs. As sad as I am this has happened, I hope that bastard Khamenei lives to dread this event more than anything he's ever done. His govt's legitimacy is in shambles."


Videos of the riots (not too graphic)
Al Jazeera's take on the riots
An account by a Mousavi spokesman
Pics (not too graphic)
A twitter account of some of the events
A second twitter account of some of the events
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:19:23 PM EST
I've met a fair number of Iranians, mostly foreign students come to study at Florida Institute of Technology, in Melbourne, FL.

What I've picked up from them is that the "average" Iranian doesn't have anything against the "average" American. Heck, they
come here to get an education. Like most of us, they'll respond well to kind treatment and poorly to bad treatment. They are
not the insane, fundamentalist radicals that their mullahs and leaders seem to be. Iranians often practice a MODERATE form
of Islam, with substantially greater women's rights than in any other "Islamic" country. In Iran, women can be, and often ARE,
professionals, including doctors among many other highly skilled professions, and prior to the Iranian revolution in 1979, the dress
code for Iranian women was pretty much "Chic Western fashion, if you can afford it".

Individually, I LIKE the Iranians. It's their GOVERNMENT that concerns me.

Although the Shah certainly didn't have the full support of ALL of the Iranian people, I can't help but note that US-Iranian relations
were once warm enough that we were their major military supplier, at least as far as their Air Force is concerned. They're the
only foreign country to have purchased the F-14 Tomcat, which we didn't offer to less than REALLY GOOD allies. The Iranians have
done a commendable job of keeping their Tomcat fleet serviceable, to this day, even though all spares have been embargoed since
1979. It's strangely ironic that THEY still have Tomcats on active duty (but flown sparingly, in an AWACS-type role due to the
capabilities of the radar system) after our own Navy has retired them all.

And...the Iranians have at least one aerial refueling tanker, based on a 747. WE don't even operate one of those!


Ethnically speaking, Iranians also aren't Arabic. They're Aryan.


I truly hope that the Iranians decide that NOW is the time to reverse the revolution and restore a lot of individual freedoms that
were lost with the 1979 revolution. Iran could once again prove to be a strong and valuable ally, in a part of the world where
such allies are hard to come by and also desperately needed.

CJ
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 4:29:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I've met a fair number of Iranians, mostly foreign students come to study at Florida Institute of Technology, in Melbourne, FL.

What I've picked up from them is that the "average" Iranian doesn't have anything against the "average" American. Heck, they
come here to get an education. Like most of us, they'll respond well to kind treatment and poorly to bad treatment. They are
not the insane, fundamentalist radicals that their mullahs and leaders seem to be. Iranians often practice a MODERATE form
of Islam, with substantially greater women's rights than in any other "Islamic" country. In Iran, women can be, and often ARE,
professionals, including doctors among many other highly skilled professions, and prior to the Iranian revolution in 1979, the dress
code for Iranian women was pretty much "Chic Western fashion, if you can afford it".

Individually, I LIKE the Iranians. It's their GOVERNMENT that concerns me.

Although the Shah certainly didn't have the full support of ALL of the Iranian people, I can't help but note that US-Iranian relations
were once warm enough that we were their major military supplier, at least as far as their Air Force is concerned. They're the
only foreign country to have purchased the F-14 Tomcat, which we didn't offer to less than REALLY GOOD allies. The Iranians have
done a commendable job of keeping their Tomcat fleet serviceable, to this day, even though all spares have been embargoed since
1979. It's strangely ironic that THEY still have Tomcats on active duty (but flown sparingly, in an AWACS-type role due to the
capabilities of the radar system) after our own Navy has retired them all.

And...the Iranians have at least one aerial refueling tanker, based on a 747. WE don't even operate one of those!


Ethnically speaking, Iranians also aren't Arabic. They're Aryan.


I truly hope that the Iranians decide that NOW is the time to reverse the revolution and restore a lot of individual freedoms that
were lost with the 1979 revolution. Iran could once again prove to be a strong and valuable ally, in a part of the world where
such allies are hard to come by and also desperately needed.

CJ


Thank you for that post.

One of the most considered and sensible responses I've read in a long time.

I get tired of seeing the "Nuke Iran from orbit" type posts......... people forget that there are families, young children and regular people the world over who just want to live and let live.

If the elections were fixed then it's time for Armouredinnerjacket to go...... The Iranians have got previous form for revolutions, maybe this is the start of another one.
Link Posted: 6/14/2009 2:52:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 2:57:15 PM EST by imortal]
Huh. And here I thought that we did not sell the Tomcat radar to Iran, and that the Grumman crew that was there maintaining them when the shit hit the fan managed to sabotage the avionics packages of the Iranian F-14s.

EDIT

Okay, after a bit of searching, I found the basis of that one. We sold Iran downgraded Pheonix missiles, and the Tomcats were sabotaged to prevent firing those Pheonix missiles.

This embargo was to have a especially severe long-term effect on the Tomcat fleet, since the embargo prevented the delivery of any spares. In addition, by August of 1979, all 79 of the F-14A Tomcats had supposedly been sabotaged so that they could no longer fire their Phoenix missiles. According to various accounts, this was done either by departing Grumman technicians, by Iranian Air Force personnel friendly to the US shortly after the fall of the Shah, or even by Iranian revolutionaries in an attempt to prevent operations by an Air Force perceived to be too pro-Western.


Today, the IRIAF still has some 50-55 F-14s, but only about 30 of them are probably active at any one time. The United States still seems to regard Iran's F-14 fleet as a potent threat in case hostilities ever break out, and has taken special pains to ensure that the Iranian government cannot obtain access to spare parts for their Tomcats. As US Navy Tomcats are retired from service, the boneyards at Davis Monthan AFB are deliberately destroying them as they arrive at the facility, just to ensure that no Tomcat spare parts end up on the black market.


Good read. source
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:12:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Agent_Funky:
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I've met a fair number of Iranians, mostly foreign students come to study at Florida Institute of Technology, in Melbourne, FL.

What I've picked up from them is that the "average" Iranian doesn't have anything against the "average" American. Heck, they
come here to get an education. Like most of us, they'll respond well to kind treatment and poorly to bad treatment. They are
not the insane, fundamentalist radicals that their mullahs and leaders seem to be. Iranians often practice a MODERATE form
of Islam, with substantially greater women's rights than in any other "Islamic" country. In Iran, women can be, and often ARE,
professionals, including doctors among many other highly skilled professions, and prior to the Iranian revolution in 1979, the dress
code for Iranian women was pretty much "Chic Western fashion, if you can afford it".

Individually, I LIKE the Iranians. It's their GOVERNMENT that concerns me.

Although the Shah certainly didn't have the full support of ALL of the Iranian people, I can't help but note that US-Iranian relations
were once warm enough that we were their major military supplier, at least as far as their Air Force is concerned. They're the
only foreign country to have purchased the F-14 Tomcat, which we didn't offer to less than REALLY GOOD allies. The Iranians have
done a commendable job of keeping their Tomcat fleet serviceable, to this day, even though all spares have been embargoed since
1979. It's strangely ironic that THEY still have Tomcats on active duty (but flown sparingly, in an AWACS-type role due to the
capabilities of the radar system) after our own Navy has retired them all.

And...the Iranians have at least one aerial refueling tanker, based on a 747. WE don't even operate one of those!


Ethnically speaking, Iranians also aren't Arabic. They're Aryan.


I truly hope that the Iranians decide that NOW is the time to reverse the revolution and restore a lot of individual freedoms that
were lost with the 1979 revolution. Iran could once again prove to be a strong and valuable ally, in a part of the world where
such allies are hard to come by and also desperately needed.

CJ


Thank you for that post.

One of the most considered and sensible responses I've read in a long time.

I get tired of seeing the "Nuke Iran from orbit" type posts......... people forget that there are families, young children and regular people the world over who just want to live and let live.

If the elections were fixed then it's time for Armouredinnerjacket to go...... The Iranians have got previous form for revolutions, maybe this is the start of another one.

Yep, GD's got plenty of the retarded "NUKE 'EM ALL!" posts. It's truly disappointing that even after this massive show of disapproval for their crap government, some fail to see certain truths about Iran.

By the way, I fixed the last part for you.
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