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Posted: 9/26/2017 8:46:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 9:27:13 AM EDT by Ridgerunner9876]
Got the kit for the boy.

Wife discussed Invisalign with the dentist during their last visit. Dentist recommended them. Explained how they work, and what the orthodontist did and was responsible for.

Upon examining the online suppliers, they do the same thing for about 1/5 the cost that an in person ortho charges.

The only thing we do that's technical is make the castings. I'm pretty comfortable with that because I had it done, and I do things very similar in the course of my job as a toolmaker/model maker. The reviews said it was easy and straightforward and they had good results.

I figured I'd ask on here to see if anyone has any experience with them.

edited for spelling.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 9:17:41 AM EDT
We have a member who discussed using them just last week. I can't remember the thread it was off topic.
He was unhappy with results and didn't delve into why.

Good luck with the kiddo
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 9:24:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:
Got the kit for the boy.

Wife discussed Invisiline with the dentist during their last visit. Dentist recommended them. Explained how they work, and what the orthodontist did and was responsible for.

Upon examining the online suppliers, they do the same thing for about 1/5 the cost that an in person ortho charges.

The only thing we do that's technical is make the castings. I'm pretty comfortable with that because I had it done, and I do things very similar in the course of my job as a toolmaker/model maker. The reviews said it was easy and straightforward and they had good results.

I figured I'd ask on here to see if anyone has any experience with them.
View Quote


Why not just knock his teeth out and build him some new ones?
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 9:30:19 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RePp:



Why not just knock his teeth out and build him some new ones?
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Out of SS? Like the dude in 007 movie?

It would cost more than the braces.

Only reason we're taking a chance on the online invisalign is the dentist said that he was a good candidate for this style, combined with the good online reviews from offsite, independent reviewers (not shills, hopefully) and my personal confidence in being able to effectively do what is required at home.

Hell, if I had the stuff, I'm pretty sure I could put on regular braces. It's not rocket surgery.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 9:47:54 AM EDT
Yeah, do it yourself dentistry sounds like a fantastic idea. Hopefully your kid doesn't need vaccines for school,  you can get them down at tractor supply.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 9:49:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 9:52:56 AM EDT by Lug1]
Doing it right now.  

**eta----   I'm very pleased so far.  My teeth have straightened a bunch so far.  I went to the ortho and they scanned my teeth and my trays were done like that.  I'm in about tray 12 or so??  Would have to look. 

I think it is a good thing so far.  
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:00:26 AM EDT


Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:01:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Doing it right now.  

**eta----   I'm very pleased so far.  My teeth have straightened a bunch so far.  I went to the ortho and they scanned my teeth and my trays were done like that.  I'm in about tray 12 or so??  Would have to look. 

I think it is a good thing so far.  
View Quote

What will the cost be when done?  
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:03:09 AM EDT
Buy once cry once
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:03:16 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By vengarr:
Yeah, do it yourself dentistry sounds like a fantastic idea. Hopefully your kid doesn't need vaccines for school,  you can get them down at tractor supply.
View Quote
Millions of people already give themselves injections everyday so the only real problem with home vaccines would probably be the lack of oversight that it actually got done.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:05:35 AM EDT
Dust off your tools, OP.  You're going to need this...

Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:10:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:12:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:
Got the kit for the boy.

Wife discussed Invisalign with the dentist during their last visit. Dentist recommended them. Explained how they work, and what the orthodontist did and was responsible for.

Upon examining the online suppliers, they do the same thing for about 1/5 the cost that an in person ortho charges.

The only thing we do that's technical is make the castings. I'm pretty comfortable with that because I had it done, and I do things very similar in the course of my job as a toolmaker/model maker. The reviews said it was easy and straightforward and they had good results.

I figured I'd ask on here to see if anyone has any experience with them.

edited for spelling.
View Quote


Not sure what casting material you'll be using. Some alginates, if mixed quickly, will produce significant heat causing discomfort and possibly burn oral tissues.  Maybe a test mix with small amount.  Mixing directions should be very specific and followed closely.

Home orthodontics. Whooda thought such a thing would happen.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:13:27 AM EDT
My Wife used them, they greatly helped with her smile, its not perfect, but substantially better. Hardest part for her is remembering her mouth guard each night after completion of the invisaline process.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:13:56 AM EDT
I would like to know this info as well.

I never had braces, and my teeth are surprisingly straight, but I do have some crooked spots I'd like straightened out.

Cost when it's all said and done?  Effectiveness?
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:15:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By vengarr:
Yeah, do it yourself dentistry sounds like a fantastic idea. Hopefully your kid doesn't need vaccines for school,  you can get them down at tractor supply.
View Quote
So, how much research did you put into your opinion?
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:18:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 10:22:06 AM EDT by Ridgerunner9876]
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I already fixed a filling in my own mouth and one in the wife's.

Minor grinding of sharp points.

Really, the mechanics of what a dentist or orthodontist does is pretty crude compared to the work I do. (no offense meant to resident toof docs)

Attachment Attached File



The difference is knowing what it should be doing wrt the jaw, root, etc, when you go moving stuff around or drilling holes. I'll leave that to the pros.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:23:24 AM EDT
I got regular braces at 34 (still have them on) and when I sat down with the ortho they ran through the pros and cons of each but I had one tooth that was too far out for invisiline for work well for me.  It still would have been about 75% of the cost of wire but only yielded 50% of the results.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:23:52 AM EDT
At smile direct club if you use coupon code RMN50 it takes 50% off of your initial kit.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:24:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NotanATFagent:
I would like to know this info as well.

I never had braces, and my teeth are surprisingly straight, but I do have some crooked spots I'd like straightened out.

Cost when it's all said and done?  Effectiveness?
View Quote
IIRC, the cost is under 1k.

I wouldn't consider this route if it weren't for the dentist saying he was a candidate (they don't work for all issues) and seeing what was involved on our end, compared with the price of going to an ortho and what they actually do in person.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:35:56 AM EDT
Wow! That's a pretty substantial savings!

My son is doing invisalign with a distalizer through an orthodontist. It's a 24-month treatment plan. The price was $5400. OUCH.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:39:51 AM EDT
Don't cheap out on the teeth.

Also......better results will ALWAYS be obtained with conventional braces vs. Invisalign.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:42:46 AM EDT
With Invisalign you will generally have bumps glued to certain teeth to facilitate movement, and you may have to have the space between teeth opened up with a drill in order for the teeth to move correctly. The company you're looking at may have found a way around the first one and your son might not require any extra space between his teeth.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:44:38 AM EDT
I’m no orthodontist, but I do know there are limitations to what a mold and computer program can do. The ful price of an orthodontist included adpdivce and adjustments that no computer can replicate, and an entire treatment regimen might include several mod-treatment minor adjustments to the aligners as well as procedures like interproximal reduction (IPR).
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:49:00 AM EDT
I just started Invisalign.  They do glue "bumps" to your teeth, so I don't know how the online service would work.  Maybe your kid barely needs any movement?  Mine is supposed to be a year long process and $4K for upper and lower.  Upper barely needs movement, bottom is worse for me.  PM me if you have any specific questions, I'll answer you best I can.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:51:12 AM EDT
Phew. I'm glad I'm retired.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:54:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By vengarr:
Yeah, do it yourself dentistry sounds like a fantastic idea. Hopefully your kid doesn't need vaccines for school,  you can get them down at tractor supply.
View Quote
So you are commenting on something you know nothing about.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:04:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 11:21:02 AM EDT by Ridgerunner9876]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
I’m no orthodontist, but I do know there are limitations to what a mold and computer program can do. The ful price of an orthodontist included adpdivce and adjustments that no computer can replicate, and an entire treatment regimen might include several mod-treatment minor adjustments to the aligners as well as procedures like interproximal reduction (IPR).
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There is a potential for a second casting, at some mid point.

At the orthodontist, they do exactly the same thing. The cast is made and sent to the company that generate the set of progressive trays. There is no further adjustment unless and until an additional casting is made, same as that which is done at home.

From what the orthodontist said, dentist said, and the info I've seen on the online supplier, there is no magic an ortho does unless there are extenuating circumstances such as needing the cemented fixtures which interface with the trays, or the device that pulls the jaw forward, etc.

That's why we went with the online place, after the dentist said this method would be applicable to the kid's teeth. It honestly surprised me how little the orthodontist does with this process. I had braces as a kid and there was the occasional visit to tighten them. This process, the tightening is just swapping out for the next tray.

If it doesn't work out, it will have been a gamble that I'd consider worth it. Risk/reward of 1:5 monetarily with no real physical hazard potential? Sign me up.

Was mostly wanting to hear any horror stories.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:17:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 11:28:03 AM EDT by First-World-Problems]
My wife is hard core wanting braces for my son. Only because she never got to have them.

Both if their teeth look great to never have braces. She wants to do the smile direct.


The only thing with men though, I don't think a man would wear a retainer daily. And we have already heard many stories about teeth shifting back and people getting braces  twice.

If you get his teeth straight, I'd look into a permanent retainer so they won't have to wear a retainer
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:18:12 AM EDT
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View Quote
Dolly had braces too!

Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:23:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By First-World-Problems:
My wife is hard core wanting braces for my son. Only because she never got to have them.

Both if their teeth look great to never have braces. She wants to do the smile direct.


The only think with men though, I don't think a man would wear a retainer daily. And we have already heard many stories about teeth shifting back and people getting braces  twice.

If you get his teeth straight, I'd look into a permanent retainer so they won't have to wear a retainer
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My teeth went back, too.

Plus, they pulled four of my fucking teeth because "I didn't have enough room in my mouth". Well, now I have gaps where those teeth should be.

Orthodontistry is a fucking racket, for the most part, imho and experience.

Sliding my teenaged head between those tig ole bitties of the hot assistants was nice. So it's got that going for it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:34:30 AM EDT
I am currently wearing my Smile Direct retainer.  The whole process went mostly well, I will say that the customer service is extremely good.  I finished my original plan and my teeth were not what was shown in the plan.  They sent me another mold kit and they made me another 5 trays to achieve what was set for me in the original plan.  

On occasion I would have to clean up an edge that was uncomfortable.
I think how "comfortable" your experience is, is directly correlated to the doctor that does your plan.  Right about the time my teeth would stop being sore, I'd be putting in a new tray and the discomfort would start all over again.

I am currently wearing my "retainer" which you'll have to buy when you're approaching the end of your plan.  The retainer is just another tray that you'll wear for another 6 months, after which you'll wear it only at night for the rest of it's life.

Hit me up if you have any other specific questions.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 11:45:26 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Gimpy_AK:
I am currently wearing my Smile Direct retainer.  The whole process went mostly well, I will say that the customer service is extremely good.  I finished my original plan and my teeth were not what was shown in the plan.  They sent me another mold kit and they made me another 5 trays to achieve what was set for me in the original plan.  

On occasion I would have to clean up an edge that was uncomfortable.
I think how "comfortable" your experience is, is directly correlated to the doctor that does your plan.  Right about the time my teeth would stop being sore, I'd be putting in a new tray and the discomfort would start all over again.

I am currently wearing my "retainer" which you'll have to buy when you're approaching the end of your plan.  The retainer is just another tray that you'll wear for another 6 months, after which you'll wear it only at night for the rest of it's life.

Hit me up if you have any other specific questions.
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Thanks very much @Gimpy_AK

Discomfort I would expect.

Discomfort would be putting it extremely mildly when describing what conventional braces do every time they torque them up, or change the rubber bands.

I hated them. Told my parents I didn't want them before they even put them on. It still pisses me off I had to go through it. It was only cosmetic.

The boy wants them and I'll do anything I can to make that happen.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 12:36:38 PM EDT
I'm a dentist. My biggest concern is would you find a doc willing to jump into a shit storm with you if things go south.

No offense if I was an ortho I don't know if I'd accept the liability. Not saying its gonna happen but there are things happening under the gums that cant be visualized.

Sounds like your mind is made up I'd like to see some updates along the way.

For fun google DENTIDRILL and watch the commercial.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 12:49:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gauchoand:
I'm a dentist. My biggest concern is would you find a doc willing to jump into a shit storm with you if things go south.

No offense if I was an ortho I don't know if I'd accept the liability. Not saying its gonna happen but there are things happening under the gums that cant be visualized.

Sounds like your mind is made up I'd like to see some updates along the way.

For fun google DENTIDRILL and watch the commercial.
View Quote
Thanks.

He does go to the dentist every six months. I'll make sure to pay for xrays each time for the duration of the invisalign as a precaution.

I would doubt that an ortho would be taking xrays at any closer interval. I know mine didn't.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 1:11:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 1:15:31 PM EDT by extractr]
The local orthodontist I refer to says almost 1/3 of his business is to "fix" invisalign cases that other dentists have done.   The people coming to him are not happy with the results and ended up in traditional braces to get the results they had hoped for initially.  They essentially paid more then double what they would have if they had just gotten braces the first time.

Without some of the "bumps" that are usually put on the teeth for invisalign cases,  I would be skeptical on how the results of DIY will turn out.   You may save $5 now to pay $15 later to fix it.

I have had a few patients that are doing the DIY method,  and I ask them how it is going when I see them at cleaning appointments.   So far, I have not heard anyone say "great".  It is usually ,"they are not moving like I had hoped", or "it is taking much longer then they told me it would".

If you are looking to just get "better" then where he is now,  they will probably do that.  If you are looking to get his teeth to the "ideal", then I doubt the DIY will get you there.  

Many  people are fine and happy with "better" though.  If that describes you, then I say go for it.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 1:34:21 PM EDT
If it were easy everyone could do it.  You aren't paying a professional for everything to go right, you're paying them to keep it all from going to hell if something goes wrong.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 1:37:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Don't cheap out on the teeth.

Also......better results will ALWAYS be obtained with conventional braces vs. Invisalign.
View Quote
How are they different (or the same)?
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 1:53:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
How are they different (or the same)?
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You're not going to get near the force with thin plastic as you can with steel wire and rubber bands.

When they adjust braces (about every 3mo, iirc) your fucking mouth fucking hurts for 3 or 4 fucking days and it fucking sucks.  

If the teeth are really out of position, I can see no way to reasonably correct them with plastic tray progression.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:16:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:


So, how much research did you put into your opinion?
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I wore braces for four years and had a number of bands crack and slip off as well as other issues. I had adjustments weekly at times.
There are these professionals called dentists that go to school for almost a decade to learn how to properly apply and adjust braces as well as deal with complications that arise.
   You are considering using a fucking at home dental kit for your kid. When his teeth come out all fucked up make sure he knows you wanted to save some money.
  Better yet, get him those plastic teeth you heat up to fit you can buy off tv.
Link Posted: 9/26/2017 10:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2017 11:14:15 PM EDT by Procyon]
I never had braces and did Invisalign about 10 years ago. I recommend.

Also, a buddy and former co-worker just finished up his Invisalign and he is very satisfied. Like me, he never had braces as a kid.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 6:53:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By vengarr:

I wore braces for four years and had a number of bands crack and slip off as well as other issues. I had adjustments weekly at times.
There are these professionals called dentists that go to school for almost a decade to learn how to properly apply and adjust braces as well as deal with complications that arise.
   You are considering using a fucking at home dental kit for your kid. When his teeth come out all fucked up make sure he knows you wanted to save some money.
  Better yet, get him those plastic teeth you heat up to fit you can buy off tv.
View Quote
Thanks for confirming you were talking out of your ass and have no idea what invisalign is, how it works, or how the "pros" use and interface with it.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 7:06:02 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gauchoand:
I'm a dentist. My biggest concern is would you find a doc willing to jump into a shit storm with you if things go south.

No offense if I was an ortho I don't know if I'd accept the liability. Not saying its gonna happen but there are things happening under the gums that cant be visualized.

Sounds like your mind is made up I'd like to see some updates along the way.

For fun google DENTIDRILL and watch the commercial.
View Quote
That's the difference between a trained professional who has experience in a specific industry with a specific set of knowledge, skills, and abilities and person who doesn't (no matter how intelligent and skilled in other areas that person may be):  the professional knows what he doesn't know.

I imagine you learn as much "doing" and seeing a little bit of everything as you did in your formal education.   Those little quirks get lost in DIY manuals and YouTube videos.

I can't recall how many fucked up tax returns I have seen that have been self-prepared.   It really is astonishing, with the volume of instructions IRS puts out, the quantity of articles you can find, and the software packages you can buy that all but hold your hand, how people can find new, creative, and exciting ways to jack up a tax form.

Do what you will OP.  I am the sort who will DIY when I can save for a few issues:  teeth being one of them.    Good luck to you.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 9:15:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2017 9:15:32 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Well, just got done with my daughter's appointment. Hers will cost 6400, of which insurance pays a thousand. Yay for me.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 9:20:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:
Well, just got done with my daughter's appointment. Hers will cost 6400, of which insurance pays a thousand. Yay for me.
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Which is in cash, up front and no guarantees.

But, that's not a racket at all.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 9:24:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2017 9:25:39 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
1200 up front, monthly payments for 24 months.  Treatment is 18 to 36 months, until desired results are achieved, within reason.

That said, the cost is fucking absurd. I understand the cost of being a medical professional, the school, the business, the insurance, the expensive equipment. It sucks. 
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 12:40:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wildearp:
What will the cost be when done?  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By wildearp:
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Doing it right now.  

**eta----   I'm very pleased so far.  My teeth have straightened a bunch so far.  I went to the ortho and they scanned my teeth and my trays were done like that.  I'm in about tray 12 or so??  Would have to look. 

I think it is a good thing so far.  
What will the cost be when done?  
@wildearp $4-5K   I am not 100% sure.  Insurance etc.  I am paying monthly.  My total comes to $3k.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 12:46:07 PM EDT
We paid $6,200 a piece for our twins a year or so ago.  Probably closer to two years ago for #2 because he just got his off this week.  It was a bundle of cash and we only got a couple grand covered by insurance.  So much for the theory of keeping the job to pay for braces, but I digress.

Good teeth are one of the many investments you make in a kids' future.  A snaggle toothed smile leaves an impression.  Whether you admit it or not you judge people based on their appearance. Those teeth are an investment in them as long as they don't fool around and get them knocked out.  We planned for it for a few years prior to seeing the orthodontist.  And so far it's been worth every dime.   

Invisalign is more like a series of retainers.  I suppose for mild corrections they'd be OK but I don't know that I'd go that route for a kid with any kind of serious issues.  I know lots of adults who use them and have had decent success, again for a mild correction.  
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 3:51:45 PM EDT
Spouse had invisiline to correct some crooked teeth, but she had metal braces as a teenager so the adjustments were pretty small (wisdom teeth messed up the original alignment).  She wore them probably 95% of the day.  I think people dissatisfied with how long the process takes probably aren't wearing them as much as possible.  They also probably haven't had real metal braces before if they're complaining about the discomfort.  Her biggest complaint is that the retainer they give you at the end is flimsy and she cracked it pretty quickly by grinding in her sleep.  So they gave her a thing for people who grind their teeth but it isn't as effective as a retainer at holding teeth in position so she has some small drifting.  That's probably the part I'd worry about the most - the invisiline itself works, but keeping it afterwards is tough.  

Would I pay for it again?  She would.  

I had traditional braces as a teenager, only wore the retainer for a year or two afterwards, at this point there has been some drifting but I think it is unnoticeable.  I didn't want them but I had a shark tooth coming in over the old tooth so I can't say it didn't help.
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 7:55:12 PM EDT
Just did the impressions and photos.

Turned out very well. Very clear and full.

I need to get some of that putty. Good stuff. Would be great for fixturing delicate parts to machine.
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