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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/10/2005 4:45:49 AM EDT
Does anyone invest in Gold? I ordered the free information kit from Swiss America and it arrived yesterday, but I haven't read through it yet.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:47:49 AM EDT
Sounds interesting. But I know nothing about it.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:55:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Does anyone invest in Gold? I ordered the free information kit from Swiss America and it arrived yesterday, but I haven't read through it yet.



Steve,

One of the private investors in our radio station is an expert on gold, and that's how he made his fortune. His name is Richard Reiley. Try reaching him at (713)621-9141, or go to www.themoneyman.com and you'll see a link down the right hand side for his newsletter.

HH
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 4:56:47 AM EDT
Ripoff , buy from the US Mint. Gold is high right now yet I stll buy a 1/10 ounce coin when possible I have about 40 now. Gold will only be used with a total collapse of all world banking if that happens food and ammo will be worth more than gold. If you want some exposure to the gold market try stock symbol GLD this is a actual bullion based ETF.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:01:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Ripoff , buy from the US Mint. Gold is high right now yet I stll buy a 1/10 ounce coin when possible I have about 40 now. Gold will only be used with a total collapse of all world banking if that happens food and ammo will be worth more than gold.



Yeah, but from my understanding it has continued to appreciate even through the rough stock market we've had recently. That makes it a more reliable investment than stocks in my opinion.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:27:50 AM EDT
It was in a bull market there for a few years but now it's just hovering between $420 and $440 or so.

Swiss America's just a coin dealer. The transactions costs with coins are usually 7% each time, which is pretty damn steep.

A cheaper way is to open an account with www.goldmoney.com, where you buy gold stored in a vault. The transaction costs are much lower, about 1%-2% each way and you can buy it by the gram. Much more convenient.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:29:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Ripoff , buy from the US Mint. Gold is high right now yet I stll buy a 1/10 ounce coin when possible I have about 40 now. Gold will only be used with a total collapse of all world banking if that happens food and ammo will be worth more than gold.



Yeah, but from my understanding it has continued to appreciate even through the rough stock market we've had recently. That makes it a more reliable investment than stocks in my opinion.



It has a lot more to do with the value of the dollar vs. other currencies than the stock market. Gold hasn't moved very significantly over the last few years in most foreign countries like it has against the US dollar.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:43:30 AM EDT





Gold... gotta love it !!!
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:49:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 5:50:18 AM EDT by TheCynic]
Buy high, sell low.

(cause that is what you are doing)
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:51:06 AM EDT
Sorry if this is a hyjack but what about silver investments? coins or bulluin? Can I put in my IRA? and is there a GLD for silver?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:52:51 AM EDT
What have you been investing in? You allmost have to try to not make money in the market this year. Not meant as a slam but you should perhaps reavaluate your assets. If you need to rebalance remember August is a historic bad month to sell.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 5:56:39 AM EDT
There are two ways to "invest" in gold.

1) Buy and hold the actual metal. You can buy coins, bars, wafers, whatever. This provides a nice touchy sort of investment, since you can touch and hold these. There is a feeling of security. However, these are NOT the best way to cash in on gold. If gold is selling at $400 an ounce, you will never be able to buy a 1 ounce gold bar for $400. You are going to pay a premium. Depending on where and what you buy, you'll pay $420 and more...Start buying 1/2 anmd 1/4 ounces and the price starts climbing dramatically. In addition, its hard enough to get rid of. Where are you going to cash it it? You are not going to go to the grocery store and slap it on the counter... Gold, although it has great value, is a real pain in the ass.

2) Buy gold "paper". Invest in companies that produce and hold gold. As gold prices go up, their stock value goes up. These are paper investments, and do not have the touchy feely benefit. However, if you want to buy more, you log onto to brokerage account and place the trade. If you want to sell its the same deal. Nice quick and easy.

Here is two I own:

GoldCorp. Gold mining company. It has some of the lowest per-ounce production costs of any mines in the world. When gold is selling at $400+ and you are "making" if for close to $200, and you hold a ton of it in reserves, its a nice place to be.

Toqueville Gold. Mutual Fund that invests in gold and gold producing stocks.

While the gold paper(stocks and mutuals) do not have teh hard intrinsic value of a bar of gold, these can be bought and sold with ease.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:09:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Buy high, sell low.

(cause that is what you are doing)



+1 buy gold when it is below $300 an oz.

Gold is not really a good investment. In the 1800's one oz of gold would buy a nice suit. Today one oz of gold will buy a nice suit.

However, I belive everyone should have a few ozs in case of emergency.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:10:23 AM EDT
Read the book, "The Total Money Makeover" by Dave Ramsey.

From page #54:

"The average rates of return for gold investment as far back as Napolean are around 2% gain per year. In recent history, gold has a fifty year track record of around 4.4%, about the same as inflation and just above savings accounts. During that same time frame, you would have made around 12% in a good growth-stock mutual fund."

Gold is a poor investment compared to mutual funds.

Forget gold, invest in mutual funds.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:16:45 AM EDT
Gold you hold is a horrible investment historically but a hard times hedge.

If you want to really invest in gold, invest in pre-public offering gold mining stock. You have to wait a few years for the mine to reach production, but the dividends make the total returns amazing. The problem is sifting through the loads of stock promoter crap and the surveyors/engineers/metalurgy reports to figure out which ones are the real deal and which ones are vaporware. Most of the new activity is in South America and Russia but a new mine finally got licensed in Canada (may be the biggest single lode in the world according to the hype) and the returns for the initial investors are going to really pay off now (nothing like gold bar dividends -literal specie - to supplement the cash dividends).
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:18:29 AM EDT
Have bought small amounts of silver and gold (as gifts) from apmex. They had the best net prices I could see.

Swiss America is a big advertiser on GCN I think - or with Alex. If you like the cause they advertise with - then do business with them. Tried to purchase some from Republic Trading group last time, but my gifts were to small of sales for them to want to deal with and he told me I could probably get a better price on such small quantites elsewhere (just wanted a $20 gold eagle that day).

I don't think gold is a great investment, but it is relitevly stable - and probably has a place as a hedge in a portfolio. That said I am risk adverse, so don't mind "spending" money to buy shinny things that might have some value in the future. Gold coins, black rifles, etc... Either are a better place to put excess fundage than a new suv.

Timing is everything though. Know someone who did good with silver, sold at $10 or $12 an oz years ago when the Bass brothers tried to corner the market.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:45:01 AM EDT
When investing you wanna buy low and sell high. The time to buy gold low was in 1999.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:54:01 AM EDT
In general, the more heavily gold investing is being pushed, the worse of an investment it really is.

The gold pushers prey on peoples' fears of economic collapse. Gold will always have a minimum value that reflects the actual cost of digging it up and refining it. Anything above that is pure speculation. You won't ever go completely broke investing in gold (or any other durable commodity), but you aren't likely to become rich on it especially when millions of other people have the same idea.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 7:41:27 AM EDT
I keep wondering about all the commercials.
If gold is such a great investment, and its going to be worth so much more "tomorrow". How come these people are in such a big push to sell it to me "today"?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:44:15 AM EDT
GOLD IS NOT AN INVESTMENT!!! ITS JUST A WAY TO STORE FUNDS. A MEANS TO SAVE! NOTHING MORE.

I really wish people would stop comparing it to investments in mutual funds and such. Apples to oranges.
CH
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:47:26 AM EDT
better off purchasing rare coins
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:09:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:11:54 AM EDT by N_Viejo]

Originally Posted By raven:
It was in a bull market there for a few years but now it's just hovering between $420 and $440 or so.

Swiss America's just a coin dealer. The transactions costs with coins are usually 7% each time, which is pretty damn steep.

A cheaper way is to open an account with www.goldmoney.com, where you buy gold stored in a vault. The transaction costs are much lower, about 1%-2% each way and you can buy it by the gram. Much more convenient.



Goldmoney is good. Raven's info is somewhat flawed:

1. The amount of premium you pay over spot price depends on the size of your purchase. The premiums are listed on their homepage.

2. They have a Gold Acumulation Program (GAP) whereby you purchase a fixed amount of gold on the 15th of every month (minimum $50/month). With this program, you pay ONLY 2% over spot.

3. To "cash in" your gold, you get paid straight spot price.

4. They charge 1/10th of a GRAM per month to store your gold, no matter how much you have.

5. You do not have to buy it by the gram. I think their accounting takes the measurements out to a milligram.

Goldmoney.com is the ideal solution if you want to purchase small amounts of gold regularly. If you were to try that with GLD or the other gold tracking stock, much of your capital would be swallowed up in brokerage commissions, both when you purchase and when you sell. At goldmoney you don't pay anything when you sell.

You can also use gold money to pay for services like a gold-backed paypal. This is not too practical, however since there are not enough people with accounts there.

Edit:

1 troy ounce = 31.1034768 gram
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chaingun:
better off purchasing rare coins



There is some truth to that. I like rare coins but if the economy heads south fast, so does the value of your rare coin. The bottom of course being its value based on weight.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:18:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By jcncc:
Ripoff , buy from the US Mint. Gold is high right now yet I stll buy a 1/10 ounce coin when possible I have about 40 now. Gold will only be used with a total collapse of all world banking if that happens food and ammo will be worth more than gold.



Yeah, but from my understanding it has continued to appreciate even through the rough stock market we've had recently. That makes it a more reliable investment than stocks in my opinion.



Part of the reason it has gone up is the recession and market correction. People put their money inot more tangible assets like gold. It will almost always go up under the conditions we have had for the past 5-6 years.

Now it is high and not a very good buy, IMHO. I think the market is set for a small correction coming up but is going to go up as the economy is improving. There is also improvement in rates for more conservative investments.

One way to buy though is through a brokerage firm. They actually hold the bullion for you and you can buy or sell as you want, almost immediately. Try to sell your gold coins after you buy them...
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:18:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:19:27 AM EDT by H46Driver]

Originally Posted By raven:

It has a lot more to do with the value of the dollar vs. other currencies than the stock market. Gold hasn't moved very significantly over the last few years in most foreign countries like it has against the US dollar.



As I know that you know Raven, that has more to do with the devaluation (probably deliberate) of the American dollar by the Bush administration via deficit spending and the US trade deficit. IMO gold has a (small) place in a diversified portfolio because of its tendency to be counter-cyclical and counter-inflationary. In real terms though, gold has not significantly appreciated in value since the middle ages.

You can get into gold by either buying gold mining company stocks and mutuals or buying the actual commodity. The problem with owning gold proper is that it does not pay interest and in fact, you have to pay to store it (if you have more than you are comfortable keeping in your house). I think 5%-10% of a diversified portfolio invested in gold is a reasonable position. My share is much smaller than that and held in stocks of mining companies.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:47:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By raven:

It has a lot more to do with the value of the dollar vs. other currencies than the stock market. Gold hasn't moved very significantly over the last few years in most foreign countries like it has against the US dollar.



As I know that you know Raven, that has more to do with the devaluation (probably deliberate) of the American dollar by the Bush administration via deficit spending and the US trade deficit. IMO gold has a (small) place in a diversified portfolio because of its tendency to be counter-cyclical and counter-inflationary. In real terms though, gold has not significantly appreciated in value since the middle ages.



Isn't the dollar now about where it was in 1998 versus the Euro (which wasn't circulating in 1998 but they can estimate it's value then based on the European currencies).

We have in the past had larger budget defecits (as a percent of GDP) and I suspect larger trade defecits as a percentage of GDP and we had a strong dollar. This happened in 1984 for example.

GunLvr
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