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Posted: 7/27/2002 5:02:04 AM EST
Naw, Never happen with Bush and team!! Foundations are in place for martial law in the US By Ritt Goldstein July 27 2002 Recent pronouncements from the Bush Administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States. When president Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua he issued a series of executive orders that provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with broad powers in the event of a "crisis" such as "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a US military invasion abroad". They were never used. But with the looming possibility of a US invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President George Bush's domestic security chief, Tom Ridge, and an official with the US Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment could occur. On July 20 the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled "Arabs in US could be held, official warns". The story referred to a member of the US Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans. FEMA has practised for such an occasion. FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling US domestic unrest. From 1982-84 Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defence preparations. Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal. They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA. A Miami Herald article on July 5, 1987, reported that the former FEMA director Louis Guiffrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff, handled the martial law portion of the planning. The plan was said to be similar to one Mr Giuffrida had developed earlier to combat "a national uprising by black militants". It provided for the detention "of at least 21million American Negroes"' in "assembly centres or relocation camps". (continued)
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 5:02:51 AM EST
Today Mr Brinkerhoff is with the highly influential Anser Institute for Homeland Security. Following a request by the Pentagon in January that the US military be allowed the option of deploying troops on American streets, the institute in February published a paper by Mr Brinkerhoff arguing the legality of this. He alleged that the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has long been accepted as prohibiting such deployments, had simply been misunderstood and misapplied. The preface to the article also provided the revelation that the national plan he had worked on, under Mr Giuffrida, was "approved by Reagan, and actions were taken to implement it". By April, the US military had created a Northern Command to aid Homeland defence. Reuters reported that the command is "mainly expected to play a supporting role to local authorities". However, Mr Ridge, the Director of Homeland Security, has just advocated a review of US law regarding the use of the military for law enforcement duties. Disturbingly, the full facts and final contents of Mr Reagan's national plan remain uncertain. This is in part because President Bush took the unusual step of sealing the Reagan presidential papers last November. However, many of the key figures of the Reagan era are part of the present administration, including John Poindexter, to whom Oliver North later reported. At the time of the Reagan initiatives, the then attorney-general, William French Smith, wrote to the national security adviser, Robert McFarlane: "I believe that the role assigned to the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the revised Executive Order exceeds its proper function as a co-ordinating agency for emergency preparedness ... this department and others have repeatedly raised serious policy and legal objections to an 'emergency czar' role for FEMA." Criticism of the Bush Administration's response to September11 echoes Mr Smith's warning. On June 7 the former presidential counsel John Dean spoke of America's sliding into a "constitutional dictatorship" and martial law. Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He revealed exclusively in the Herald last week the Bush Administration's plans for a domestic spying system more pervasive than the Stasi network in East Germany. This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 5:06:12 AM EST
You guys are just paranoid. The gov't. would [i]never[/i] do that.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 5:30:36 AM EST
Naw, never.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 5:49:17 AM EST
What a crock of shit
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:03:48 AM EST
You guys willing to bet YOUR LIFE these idiots wouldn't try it? Me either.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:05:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 6:07:16 AM EST by Vulcan94]
Isn't it amazing how much foresight our Founding Fathers were capable of. If that isn't the exact reason why the 2nd Amendment was put in the Bill of Right, I don't know what is! Vulcan94 (Good topic for my 300th post! [:D] )
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:06:53 AM EST
Why does it seem that some of you are wishing for this to be so? Are your lives that boring?[:)]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:17:40 AM EST
We need to do away with executive orders decreed by the President and laws passed by Congress. We have the Constitution, what more do we need? They're all a bunch of petty wanna-be dictators. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:29:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Why does it seem that some of you are wishing for this to be so?
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Because in 80 years, I'll have trouble dragging my oxygen bottle around, whereas now I'm having no problems lifting a couple of thousand rounds of ammo stacked in cans.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:41:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kar98:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Why does it seem that some of you are wishing for this to be so?
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Because in 80 years, I'll have trouble dragging my oxygen bottle around, whereas now I'm having no problems lifting a couple of thousand rounds of ammo stacked in cans.
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My sentiments exactly. I don't [i]want[/i] it to happen, but if [i]going[/i] to happen, let it be when I am young enough to do something about it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:06:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 7:07:11 AM EST by dbrowne1]
"They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA." God, where does the govt come up with this shit?!?! "Oh yes, Mr. President. That pesky Constitution might pose a problem. But don't worry, we'll just draft an executive order to suspend it." I must have missed class the day they taught "law" at law school. I mean, I'm sure they told everyone that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, unless rescinded by a semi-secret executive order issued by a single person, right?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:36:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 7:39:38 AM EST
No man can suspend the constitution, but we men can defend it. Bullet box or the ballot box, their choice.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:04:20 AM EST
[b]"He alleged that the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has long been accepted as prohibiting such deployments, had simply been misunderstood and misapplied".[/b] [?] Kinda like the 2nd amendment (among others) I suppose.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:23:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By Vulcan94: Isn't it amazing how much foresight our Founding Fathers were capable of.
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Not really. Human nature has not changed in 200 years. [b]Why does it seem that some of you are wishing for this to be so? Are your lives that boring?[/b] I feel like this sometimes, then I read or hear a recording (like the tapes that discuss suspension of the constitution) and I realize some of these guys and gals are out there digging for info which helps bring the issues to the forefront. Yeah, some seem like real whackos - but then you read or hear something from another source and proves a piece of what they are saying - guess they ain't totally full of shit. [b]Because in 80 years, I'll have trouble dragging my oxygen bottle around, whereas now I'm having no problems lifting a couple of thousand rounds of ammo stacked in cans.[/b] Doubt it will ever happen. More importantly if it does - it will likely mean that the party will be over for all of us; and none of us want that. While information gathering and what some consider to be "preparation" are important - of greater import is constructive use of the media (think Watergate / Iran Contra) and the political process. Like what was originally said - our forefathers had tremendous insight. Most of that related to "one man, one vote" not consolidation of power by a few. Six Out.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:28:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: Ritt Goldstein is an investigative journalist and a former leader in the movement for US law enforcement accountability. He revealed exclusively in the Herald last week the Bush Administration's plans for a domestic spying system more pervasive than the Stasi network in East Germany.
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Good old Ritt Goldstein. Freedom fighter. American patriot. One of our national heroes. Sadly he was forced to become an asylum seeker in Sweden, where all the left wing political parties (heck, that's all the parties there, isn't it?) have recognized his just claim and reasonable fear for his life. If he ever returns to his beloved country the vast-right-wing conspiracy will do away with him quicker than two shakes of a lambs tail. [img]http://www.rapidforum.at/smilies/m1.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:30:57 AM EST
Foundations are in place for martial law in the US By Ritt Goldstein July 27 2002 [USA]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 1:42:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 1:43:12 PM EST by mattja]
Mr. Goldstein's credibility is at issue. Here's a guy who forms an organization to enforce police accountability, and then flees to Sweden for fear of persecution at the hands of the local police. He applies for asylum, but the Swedes refuse to give it to him because he lacks proof of his persecution. So he goes underground. He claims the cops were after him for a few years before he left yet he can provide no proof. No video, audio tapes, nothing. And he's a smart guy. Now he's the toast of Europe, making a small fortune writing articles about the big, bad USA. Ah... Let's see if we can find a more credible source next time, okay?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 1:54:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja: Mr. Goldstein's credibility is at issue. Here's a guy who forms an organization to enforce police accountability, and then flees to Sweden for fear of persecution at the hands of the local police. He applies for asylum, but the Swedes refuse to give it to him because he lacks proof of his persecution. So he goes underground. He claims the cops were after him for a few years before he left yet he can provide no proof. No video, audio tapes, nothing. And he's a smart guy. Now he's the toast of Europe, making a small fortune writing articles about the big, bad USA. Ah... Let's see if we can find a more credible source next time, okay?
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The facts of the story are a matter of record. The Excutive orders DO exist, and can be found if you do a search. For years, "whackos" have been posting photos on the web of reservations, (usually old military bases), with the barbed wire on the top of the fence pointing INWARD. Think this stuff can't happen here? 10 years ago, you were calling us "wackos" for other things. They have since come to pass in the "Patriot Act", and other measures directed at American citizens since 9/11. Yesterday, Congress passed the "Homeland Security Act", The largest re-organization since FDR. Wakie,wakie.....
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:14:59 PM EST
please dont get me started, i was trying so hard to be a good sheeple, now youve ruined it....
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:31:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By the_survivalist: please dont get me started, i was trying so hard to be a good sheeple, now youve ruined it....
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Nyuk,nyuk,nyuk,nyuk.....
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 2:42:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By mattja: Mr. Goldstein's credibility is at issue. Here's a guy who forms an organization to enforce police accountability, and then flees to Sweden for fear of persecution at the hands of the local police. He applies for asylum, but the Swedes refuse to give it to him because he lacks proof of his persecution. So he goes underground. He claims the cops were after him for a few years before he left yet he can provide no proof. No video, audio tapes, nothing. And he's a smart guy. Now he's the toast of Europe, making a small fortune writing articles about the big, bad USA. Ah... Let's see if we can find a more credible source next time, okay?
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The facts of the story are a matter of record. The Excutive orders DO exist, and can be found if you do a search. For years, "whackos" have been posting photos on the web of reservations, (usually old military bases), with the barbed wire on the top of the fence pointing INWARD. Think this stuff can't happen here? 10 years ago, you were calling us "wackos" for other things. They have since come to pass in the "Patriot Act", and other measures directed at American citizens since 9/11. Yesterday, Congress passed the "Homeland Security Act", The largest re-organization since FDR. Wakie,wakie.....
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Ten years ago I was calling you a whacko? What are you, paranoid? I'm probably more cynical than you! This kind of crap has been in play since before WWII. When they start doing things, that's when I'll worry. The fact they have a plan is to be expected.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 5:42:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By mattja: Mr. Goldstein's credibility is at issue. Here's a guy who forms an organization to enforce police accountability, and then flees to Sweden for fear of persecution at the hands of the local police. He applies for asylum, but the Swedes refuse to give it to him because he lacks proof of his persecution. So he goes underground. He claims the cops were after him for a few years before he left yet he can provide no proof. No video, audio tapes, nothing. And he's a smart guy. Now he's the toast of Europe, making a small fortune writing articles about the big, bad USA. Ah... Let's see if we can find a more credible source next time, okay?
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The facts of the story are a matter of record. The Excutive orders DO exist, and can be found if you do a search. For years, "whackos" have been posting photos on the web of reservations, (usually old military bases), with the barbed wire on the top of the fence pointing INWARD. Think this stuff can't happen here? 10 years ago, you were calling us "wackos" for other things. They have since come to pass in the "Patriot Act", and other measures directed at American citizens since 9/11. Yesterday, Congress passed the "Homeland Security Act", The largest re-organization since FDR. Wakie,wakie.....
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Ten years ago I was calling you a whacko? What are you, paranoid? I'm probably more cynical than you! This kind of crap has been in play since before WWII. When they start doing things, that's when I'll worry. The fact they have a plan is to be expected.
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I'm not cynical, I see facts, AND actions. The time to worry has passed, they're already "doing things". When I say "you", I mean those who come up with the "creditable source" arguments, and others like it so you don't have to do anything. What do you want, Dan Rather and Peter Jennings?? What I'm saying, is it's not "just a plan to be expected". It's a plan that's been implemented over the last 100 years, and is in it's final stages now.......
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:04:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/27/2002 6:16:36 PM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:12:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: I'm not cynical, I see facts, AND actions. The time to worry has passed, they're already "doing things". When I say "you", I mean those who come up with the "creditable source" arguments, and others like it so you don't have to do anything. What do you want, Dan Rather and Peter Jennings?? What I'm saying, is it's not "just a plan to be expected". It's a plan that's been implemented over the last 100 years, and is in it's final stages now.......
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I want to hear it from straight from Hillary, then I'll believe it. Seriously, you have to believe there are hundreds of scenarios and plans for anything from natural disasters to terrorism to full scale war on US soil. I have no problem with these plans because the govt. does need to be prepared. This doesn't mean the plans will ever be put into action. There is nothing to gain that I can see. They already have our money through taxes, so I really don't believe a 1984 situation is in the making. However, I do believe the govt. is feeling the waters. Someone in govt. mentions nations ID cards, the people have a fit, then someone else in govt. states they have no plans to do it. In fact, it will never happen. A couple of weeks later another official floats another idea, people have a fit, and they again say it was never in the plans. It is my feeling they are floating these ideas to get an idea of how much liberty we are willing to give up during this war against terrorism without actually coming out and asking us directly. This is my feeling. So, as long as we have a fit and say, "HELL NO! YOU WILL NOT SUSPEND POSSE CIMITATUS!", I think we have nothing to worry about (for now). There is nothing to be gained by pissing off millions of gun owners. In fact, long before we are the target one would think they would first start collecting all our guns.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:15:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: The facts of the story are a matter of record. The Excutive orders DO exist, and can be found if you do a search.
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Which orders? I want to see the one where: "They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA." Also: "Disturbingly, the full facts and final contents of Mr Reagan's national plan remain uncertain. This is in part because President Bush took the unusual step of sealing the Reagan presidential papers last November. However, many of the key figures of the Reagan era are part of the present administration, including John Poindexter, to whom Oliver North later reported." So, these papers existed which somehow "provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) with broad powers in the event of a "crisis" such as "violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a US military invasion abroad". They were public, then Bush somehow sealed them? Where are the copies this guy saw?
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:33:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: What I'm saying, is it's not "just a plan to be expected". It's a plan that's been implemented over the last 100 years, and is in it's final stages now.......
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By whom was this plan implemented? For what purpose? Why has it taken 100 years for this plan to become apparent? Who has been involved with implementing the plan during the last 100 years? Would you please please cite sources (original, if possible)?
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Not again....NO!!! do your own research you lazy raf you....
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 6:42:17 PM EST
I heard about all this stuff almost ten years ago. Republican, Democrat, it doesn't surprise me that this sh!t may be going on. Those in power want to stay in power. Period. Some are willing to go to great lengths, others are not. The human condition is no different for American "leaders," that's why the founding fathers wanted checks and balances.
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 8:45:22 PM EST
I posted this article last night, and I'm glad somebody else did too. It would be so much easier to just bury my head in the sand. My suspicion is one of the only reason's that they have gotten this far is because the internet hasn't been around that long. No wonder Hillary wanted the government to be the and I quote"Gatekeeper of the internet" I'll just say it. I do believe these rotten fucks intend to do it someday, and our tax dollars are fucking financing it for them. I remember that 15 years ago I had a buddy who was ex "State Dept." tell me about the AWB, and many other things that would come to pass, and I laughed in his face and told him he was full of SHIT. I called him recently and ate crow. Oh gotta go, time for my medication...
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 9:35:09 PM EST
After having a badly needed cigarette, I would like to take the opportunity to rephrase some of what I said. I believe that someday SOME of those sorry fucks will try to do it. It will just depend on WHICH group of sorry fucks happens to be in office. Hopefully our current group will not be as hell bent as the last group we have had to endure. Here's the caveat... It's like people talking about Homeland security. I am all for closing the borders, and taking some serious precautionary measures to protect the people who pay the politicians. My question is what happens if we get another Socialist in office like Clinton, and another AG like Reno? These are the same clowns who stole FBI files and so forth to terrorize their opponents. These are the same people who viewed most thinking Americans as a threat. Can we really expect these people to treasure civil liberties, given the new laws put in place? Food for thought. "Welcome To Idaho The Standoff State"
Link Posted: 7/27/2002 10:11:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By dbrowne1: "They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA." God, where does the govt come up with this shit?!?! "Oh yes, Mr. President. That pesky Constitution might pose a problem. But don't worry, we'll just draft an executive order to suspend it." I must have missed class the day they taught "law" at law school. I mean, I'm sure they told everyone that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, unless rescinded by a semi-secret executive order issued by a single person, right?
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The problem is that (I would guess) about 99% of the population doesn't have a clue as to what the Constitution is. Most assholes only know about their Constitutional rights because of police brutality cases. Also, preparing for martial law to combat a race war doesnt surprise me in the least. Our government is anxiouusly waiting for a LARGE race or religion-based domestic "war" to happen. I'll tell you all, mark my words, the name of the game is DIVIDE and CONQUER.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 4:07:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 4:10:41 AM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 4:39:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: What I'm saying, is it's not "just a plan to be expected". It's a plan that's been implemented over the last 100 years, and is in it's final stages now.......
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By whom was this plan implemented? For what purpose? Why has it taken 100 years for this plan to become apparent? Who has been involved with implementing the plan during the last 100 years? Would you please please cite sources (original, if possible)?
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Not again....NO!!! do your own research you lazy raf you....
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Yes, again. First off, don't make the automatic assumption that I entirely disagree with your statements on this subject. you owe it to yourself, the believability of you arguments, and to us, as a group, to give us the evidence so crucial to the believability of your arguments and predictions. Surely, in defense of our Liberties and the Constitution, you will be willing to make that effort.
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I owe nothing to anyone. The amount of information is overwhelming. If anyone is not curious enough to check for themselves, why should I drop it in their lap? Not my job. Those interested can do a google search on "New World Order", read everything that comes up. Search "Environment groups", same thing. Earth charter", "Illuminati", "Council on foreign relations", "Tri-lateral comission", "John Birch Society". Get the picture raf?? There's too much info to say "go here" for answers. (If you know a site, gimmee a link, I'll use it) I've been learning about this stuff since the '70s. Any idea how much I've read from various sources? I only got on the internet 4 years ago. Wish it was available to me all along. So easy to get info, AND check sources. I have no doubts about it. The international treaty texts, and US law and regulations implementing "the plan" are on-line for anyone willing to go to a little effort to view.
Surely, in defense of our Liberties and the Constitution, you will be willing to make that effort.
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There are already a multitude of sites on-line to get info. I don't have time or inclination to do an internet crusade, (although I have run a sucessful boycott of a city here in Oregon on-line), I am too busy fighting it's implementation at the local level on the ground, (politically), and trying to have a life too.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 4:46:48 AM EST
Btw raf, this site may interest you; [url]http://www.crossroad.to/[/url]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 4:47:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 4:51:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: There are already a multitude of sites on-line to get info. I don't have time or inclination to do an internet crusade, (although I have run a sucessful boycott of a city here in Oregon on-line), I am too busy fighting it's implementation at the local level on the ground, (politically), and trying to have a life too.
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Would you please list your reccomendations for "best sites" on this topic? Thanks.
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Here's your site raf [moon]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:01:21 AM EST
Wow, so it's really true after all. All of the best delusions [b]are[/b] paranoid ones.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:03:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:13:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: There are already a multitude of sites on-line to get info. I don't have time or inclination to do an internet crusade, (although I have run a sucessful boycott of a city here in Oregon on-line), I am too busy fighting it's implementation at the local level on the ground, (politically), and trying to have a life too.
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Would you please list your reccomendations for "best sites" on this topic? Thanks.
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Here's your site raf [moon]
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Well, if that's how you treat people asking, politely, for information, I doubt you will have much success at your projects. Pity, but sometimes the message is judged by the messenger.
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No raf, it's how I treat those who deliberatly attempt to goad and harass me. People like you! You aren't genuinely looking for info and we both know it. So do others who notice your posts on my threads. The last time even generated a comment by someone to you about it. How did you get to be a Moderator? By playing games like you do with me?? I ain't a player raf, take yer toys some place else... Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:23:09 AM EST
Here's a site, raf. It explains it ALL: [url]http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/[/url]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:33:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: Here's a site, raf. It explains it ALL: [url]http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/[/url]
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Ah goody, a kommie kalifornian! Did you know your states gun laws are bringing you into compliance with the United Nations convention on small arms? No?? Maybe you should try some other sites besides the kiddie sites...
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:33:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 6:33:54 AM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:37:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: No raf, it's how I treat those who deliberatly attempt to goad and harass me. People like you!
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Seems to me that the only goading and harassment on our conversations has been your insults towards me, like the above.
You aren't genuinely looking for info and we both know it.
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You are ASSuming too much. I am quite sincere in my request.
So do others who notice your posts on my threads. The last time even generated a comment by someone to you about it. How did you get to be a Moderator? By playing games like you do with me?? I ain't a player raf, take yer toys some place else...
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So, asking someone for evidence to support their allegations is "goading", "harassment", and/or "games"? It's a pity that you can't defend your allegations. But don't blame your ianbilities on me. I politely asked you on many occasions, for documantation on your allegations. Never once got more than an insult. Too bad.
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You read the link I gave above in record time. No comments? Did you even go there? Thanks for proving my point....
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:48:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 5:49:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 6:05:10 AM EST by raf]
Here are some sites: [url]www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/[/url] [url]www.sjgames.com/inwo/[/url] [url]www.foe.org.au/mr/mr_12_9_01.htm[/url] [url]www.enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/01/01022002/ap_israel_46007.asp[/url] [url]www.rag.org.au/buc/group.htm[/url] [url]www.climateark.org/articles/2001/4th/ensayssu.htm[/url] [url]www.earthhopenetwork.net/hands-on_local.htm/[/url] [url]www.ccfr.org//[/url][url] clinton4.nara.gov/WH/EOP/NSC/html/speeches/srb060697.html[/url] [url]www.dgap.org/english/indexe.htm[/url] raf, there are plenty more. Added by RAF: I fixed your links. Thank you for the links.
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 6:14:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Here's your site raf [moon]
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You mean [i]this[/i] one? LOL, didn't take any time at all. As for the crossroads link, I haven't had time to fairly evaluate it yet. Surely you wouldn't want me to rush to judgment on such an important topic, would you? I think we've both had our say for now.
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Not quite, you posted the below quote after I gave you a link to ponder. Seems to me, you ARE trying to goad me. Are you a good example of a moderator, or a troll? Here is another link out of a quick search of 2,295,768 results. Why don't you go read them all?? [url]http://www.pushhamburger.com/[/url] You play games, and don't expect to be called on it? Too bad...
So, asking someone for evidence to support their allegations is "goading", "harassment", and/or "games"? It's a pity that you can't defend your allegations. But don't blame your ianbilities on me. I politely asked you on many occasions, for documantation on your allegations. Never once got more than an insult. Too bad.
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Link Posted: 7/28/2002 6:24:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2002 6:29:12 AM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 6:28:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By DScott: Here's a site, raf. It explains it ALL: [url]http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/[/url]
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Of course, you meant [b]this[/b] site: II Timothy 3:1-5, NIV. "But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God--having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 6:39:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By liberty86: Here's your site raf [moon]
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You mean [i]this[/i] one? LOL, didn't take any time at all. As for the crossroads link, I haven't had time to fairly evaluate it yet. Surely you wouldn't want me to rush to judgment on such an important topic, would you? I think we've both had our say for now.
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Not quite, you posted the below quote after I gave you a link to ponder. Seems to me, you ARE trying to goad me. Are you a good example of a moderator, or a troll? Here is another link out of a quick search of 2,295,768 results. Why don't you go read them all?? [url]http://www.pushhamburger.com/[/url] You play games, and don't expect to be called on it? Too bad...
So, asking someone for evidence to support their allegations is "goading", "harassment", and/or "games"? It's a pity that you can't defend your allegations. But don't blame your ianbilities on me. I politely asked you on many occasions, for documantation on your allegations. Never once got more than an insult. Too bad.
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I stand corrected. After numerous requests on a number of threads, you finally provided a [i]single[/i] link to substantiate your allegations. Thank you. Now I see that you've provided another. Thank you again. That wasn't too hard, was it? Just think, if you had done that some time ago, things might be different. Perhaps I might support your allegations, instead of asking for evidence. At any rate, I'll look them over, and give them my full attention.
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Don't forget the other 2,295,768 results. Is it so difficult to do a search yourself? Do you need help wiping your ass too? (call mommy). Ya, you asked on several ocassions, and I gave the same answer. Do a search. Sift the credible from the incredible. The two links I provided are random. I haven't read them either. I don't need to. You sound like you have already done research, and come to conclusions. If so, why harass me? Perhaps raf, you need to take a look at your behavior. Seems rather childish to me.....
Link Posted: 7/28/2002 6:44:00 AM EST
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