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Posted: 4/1/2012 6:57:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:00:59 AM EDT by Shane333]
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/opinion/editorial/satan-at-work-in-highland/article_eb6f41da-c10e-5b9b-a390-27621e577cc1.html

Satan at work in Highland

"Satan is one tricky devil. He makes things that are evil seem good and things that are good seem evil. So when the planning commission votes 5-2 to continue the city's blue law against Sunday commerce, the devil counts it as a victory because coercion in the name of faith has defeated freedom.

On second thought, maybe Satan counted the 5-2 vote as a defeat because everybody knows that God is not for stores being open on Sundays. That puts God on the side of those five votes for coercion. But that would cut against the grain of Mormon scripture that says God is for free agency.

It's all so confusing..."

(Much more at link)
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

It's a very interesting "in our opinion" article put together by someone on the news staff. I'm curious to know what your views are. I've had numerous conversations with co-workers, friends, and neighbors on this issue. Local people can be all over the spectrum on this one.. For example, I know one man who is generally libertarian, yet when he was on the local city council he felt it his personal obligation to vote against allowing businesses to open on Sunday. I've known neighbors who argue that blue laws are an infringement on other people's liberties, and other people who claim that the "liberties" argument is somehow a cowardly evasion of one's personal responsibility to uphold God's laws.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:00:45 AM EDT
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:03:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:03:58 AM EDT by colklink]
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.


The state run alcohol stores are open sundays in PA? Did not know that.

Unless you are talking about being able to walk into a bar and buy alcohol on sundays.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:04:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schlange:
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.

This, or even 24 hours.


NV is the state the whole country should be emulating as far as booze laws go.


Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:04:57 AM EDT
No alcohol before noon on Sunday here and I think it's bullshit. If a store owner chooses to not open or sell booze on Sunday that's fine but a law against it is just stupid beyong belief.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:06:00 AM EDT by Shane333]
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.


One of the theological contradictions that gets pointed out in the article is that on the one hand the doctrine is that God doesn't want businesses open on Sundays (part of keeping the Sabath day holy) while at the same time there is the doctrine that people have their personal agency.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:06:28 AM EDT
Most people are all about freedom until it comes to allowing others to have the freedom to do something they don't like.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:08:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:10:00 AM EDT
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:12:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.


Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:13:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together


The article is more than just about beer. It's about a town restricting pretty much any commerce on Sunday as a matter of upholding God's laws, except for the Country Club which is allowed to sell products and services on Sunday.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:14:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.




Being that I don't drink I am honestly unfamiliar with such laws. Is it really against the law to distill one's own liquor?
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:20:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:23:39 AM EDT by callgood]
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.


One of the theological contradictions that gets pointed out in the article is that on the one hand the doctrine is that God doesn't want businesses open on Sundays (part of keeping the Sabath day holy) while at the same time there is the doctrine that people have their personal agency.


Some Gods might not want them open on Friday.

Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant You may not distill your own liquor.




Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:27:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.




Being that I don't drink I am honestly unfamiliar with such laws. Is it really against the law to distill one's own liquor?


Doing so would result in lots of legal problems. The government wants its taxes.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:28:05 AM EDT
I think they are dumb. More evidence that people have way too much trouble minding their own business.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:30:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.




Being that I don't drink I am honestly unfamiliar with such laws. Is it really against the law to distill one's own liquor?


It is a federal law, yes.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:30:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.


One of the theological contradictions that gets pointed out in the article is that on the one hand the doctrine is that God doesn't want businesses open on Sundays (part of keeping the Sabath day holy) while at the same time there is the doctrine that people have their personal agency.


Some Gods might not want them open on Friday.

<snip>


My wife and I discussed that one. We talked about what it would be like if we lived in a Jewish community and they forced businesses to close on Saturday (which is when we do a lot of our weekly shopping done).
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:31:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bakelite47:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.




Being that I don't drink I am honestly unfamiliar with such laws. Is it really against the law to distill one's own liquor?


It is a federal law, yes.


But didn't George Washington want every citizen to have the ability to distill their own liquor?
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:42:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:42:37 AM EDT by macro]
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together


The article is more than just about beer. It's about a town restricting pretty much any commerce on Sunday as a matter of upholding God's laws, except for the Country Club which is allowed to sell products and services on Sunday.


My response was more tongue in cheek than social commentary.

Regarding the local laws....I must assume they are driven by the local government, which was voted into office by the majority of the residents. Unfortunately, while I don't agree with laws that restrict commerce, I recognize that local ordinance (at least in theory) represents the collective view of the local citizens. At a state level and certainly at a Federal level, these types of regulations are wildly inappropriate. While I don't personally support such laws at a local level, I will concede to the popular vote in my community. If after time I find that I differ in position on a substantial number of opinions, it's probably time for me to find a community where I will fit in better.

The debate reminds me of the old folks that have lived somewhere for a long time and watch the culture evolve around them (into something they cannot embrace). I saw it happen in the town I grew up in. Over the span of a few generations, local culture changes. As it does, we need to adapt, accept it, or move on. (or do nothing and be miserable and bitter about it)

I'd like to think that the rate of change is proportional to the population density, but it doesn't seem to hold true depending on the issue.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:45:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/1/2012 7:48:23 AM EDT by colklink]
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Bakelite47:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant distill your own liquor.




Being that I don't drink I am honestly unfamiliar with such laws. Is it really against the law to distill one's own liquor?


It is a federal law, yes.


But didn't George Washington want every citizen to have the ability to distill their own liquor?


I think when he was POTUS he led the US Army against a group of citizens that wanted to distill their own liquor without paying taxes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:47:22 AM EDT
Mixed feeling on blue laws- we have them still in parts of SC and they vary from area to area. On the one hand, as a libertarian I think it should be up to the business to decide when they want to do business. On the other hand I think back to when I was a kid and most stores were closed and the ones that could open didn't do so until one in the afternoon and closed again at six. Families actually had time off to be together, go to church if they wanted, etc. Some of my favorite memories are of going to one of the local shopping centers (before we had malls) and watching my uncle race in the local SCCA races. We also get together with other family for dinner, etc. I'm not a religious man, but given the state of the modern American family, it might be a good idea to give them some time together.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:51:19 AM EDT
They should hold reading comprehension classes on Sunday for the people who dream this stuff up.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 7:59:22 AM EDT
Why do bible thumpers hate freedom? What's wrong with me buying liquor on Sunday?
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 8:46:23 AM EDT
I don't like Blue Laws. Having said that...

If the citizens of a town/ city decide they want a nice quiet Sunday (Friday or whatever), or a morning for people to engage in religious activities, time with their kids at the park, etc... without everything being noisy busy weekday normal - I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with it if those people were to push for that from the State or Federal level.

I grew up in a town and county with Blue Laws. Stores could open, but items were restricted (you could buy the razor handle but not the blades type of stuff). So some stores chose to close, and others placed all of the items restricted by the Blue Laws in one section of the store so they could be easily blocked off on Sunday. The town was dry as well - had to go into the next county to buy alcohol. Over time the demographics of the area has changed. Those with the very strict religious views who were the majority of the town slowly became a smaller percentage of the voting population, and the laws have pretty much disappeared. Church attendance is still high. Those who choose to make Sunday a religious/ family day do so, and those who need to be able to shop due to work schedules and the like are able to do that as well.

This is a great example of why I am such a big proponent of issues being handled at the lowest levels of government. We have a much greater impact on laws at the local level, and it's the least amount of infringement upon individual liberty as a nation.
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 9:52:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gilly:
No alcohol before noon on Sunday here and I think it's bullshit. If a store owner chooses to not open or sell booze on Sunday that's fine but a law against it is just stupid beyong belief.


The worst part of this is working at a golf course. As a bartender / waiter / beer-cart-chick you are royally f*cked. Sunday is the 2nd biggest day of the week and you can't sell beers to all the guys until the day is half over, which is where most of your tips / profit come from. I lost out on a lot of $$$ in high school and college due to a stupid government rule.

Local governments can still opt out and go back to the old law if they want. Which is stupid.

Link Posted: 4/1/2012 10:05:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By Shane333:
Originally Posted By Schlange:
I can buy beer and hard liquor on Sunday, what bothers me is that the gun shop I usually go to is closed on Sundays.
Seriously though, I think Blue Laws are silly. Now if a business owner wants to be closed on Sunday, then that is entirely up to them.


One of the theological contradictions that gets pointed out in the article is that on the one hand the doctrine is that God doesn't want businesses open on Sundays (part of keeping the Sabath day holy) while at the same time there is the doctrine that people have their personal agency.


Some Gods might not want them open on Friday.

Originally Posted By Star_Scream:

Originally Posted By macro:
Brew your own beer and withdraw from the debate all together

Cant You may not distill your own liquor.


http://coppermoonshinestills.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/DSCF1052.JPG



Do tax stamps take as long as they do with firearms for your sweet looking still?
Link Posted: 4/1/2012 10:08:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Shane333:
I've known neighbors who argue that blue laws are an infringement on other people's liberties, and other people who claim that the "liberties" argument is somehow a cowardly evasion of one's personal responsibility to uphold God's laws.


Those neighbors are idiots. No one is stopping them from upholding God's laws. Don't wanna open your business on Sunday? Don't do it.
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