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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 5/19/2005 9:08:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 1:16:36 PM EST by sgtar15]
from their own web site

www.uccny.org/aboutus/


The New York Conference United Church of Christ is one of thirty-nine conferences that comprise the United Church of Christ. The United Church of Christ is composed of six thousand plus congregations with a membership of about 1.6 million members throughout the United States. The United Church of Christ celebrates a significant partner relationship with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and now celebrates Common Communion with the Presbyterian Church USA, Reformed Church of America and Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.


and then later under their book section.,

www.uccny.org/fyi/


Sacred Work: Planned Parenthood and Its Clergy Alliances by Tom Davis, Chaplain Emeritus, Skidmore College (Hudson Mohawk Association).

"An extraordinary work. Carefully researched, clearly written, factually honest. Davis puts in proper spiritual context the supportive role of America's mainstream clergy in the struggle for women's reproductive freedom."




How these people can claim to be Christian while supporting the slaughter and murder of 21 million +babies since the 70's is beyond me.

Even Planned Parenthood talks about how great this "pastor" from the UCC church is for his wonderful views...

www.uccny.org/fyi]www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/webzine/artsculture/art-050114-davis.xml]www.uccny.org/fyi


Sacred Work: Planned Parenthood and Its Clergy Alliances by Tom Davis, Chaplain Emeritus, Skidmore College (Hudson Mohawk Association).

"An extraordinary work. Carefully researched, clearly written, factually honest. Davis puts in proper spiritual context the supportive role of America's mainstream clergy in the struggle for women's reproductive freedom."




I think this "Roman" will stick with his Catholic faith.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:10:40 AM EST
Yep me too.
Sounds nutty to me.
Abortion is a big fat sin.
Funny, I thought that church was all BAC and devout?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:16:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:19:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Funny, I thought that church was all BAC and devout?


Do not confuse the United Churches of Christ, with the Church of Christ.

Totally different group, totally different doctrines and views.

Anytime you see 'United' in any denomination's name...you must expect something different.

Eric The(ChurchOfChristMember)Hun



+1

'united' is a way of saying 'we spun off from some other group'....

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:20:58 AM EST
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ. Hating gay people or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:25:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:36:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 9:37:30 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 9:55:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ. Hating gay people or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.



The only way to accept Christ is to repent your sins.

Homosexuality and abortion are just 2 of many sins that require repentance.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:00:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ. Hating gay people or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.



Accepting Christ means more than saying that He exists. It means accepting Him as Lord and Savior. As Lord, we must accept Christ's commandments and attempt to live by them. Now, can one be a Christian and think that abortion and gay "rights" are moral and just. Yes. But I don't believe it to be an accurate reading of God's law, and I think that a lot of Christians who hold these positions are in reality importing ungodly morality from some other source.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:02:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Funny, I thought that church was all BAC and devout?


Do not confuse the United Churches of Christ, with the Church of Christ.

Totally different group, totally different doctrines and views.

Anytime you see 'United' in any denomination's name...you must expect something different.

Eric The(ChurchOfChristMember)Hun



Ah I thought it was the same....
Okee dokee.
either way abortion is a big no no
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:02:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ. Hating gay people or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.



I am still trying to figure out how anyone can reconcile supporting abortion and being a Christian. The 2 are not compatible.

I guess self-deception is the root of all evil… and not the love of money.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:07:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ.


At a bare minimum....

Hating gay people or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.

Accepting gay lifestyles and supporting or encouraging abortions are NOT possible if you 'accept Christ.'

You may continue to love the individual who has sinned. You simply don't accept him or her while they are in the midst of sinning.

Eric The(NotCalledJudgmental,JustBeingAs'WiseAsSer­pents')Hun



big +1
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:07:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 10:10:37 AM EST by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By DLoken:
The only thing required to be Christian is to accept Christ.



Part of accepting Christ is living by His moral and ethical code. Shall we sin so that grace may abound? Certainly not! Shall we call sin by anything other than its name? Certainly not!

"19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble! 20But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."

James 2



Hating gay people



Who said I hate gay people?



or being a rabid ant-abortion protestor isn't required.



Condoning murder isn't going to win you points with Jesus. As He said, if you are ashamed of His righteousness before men, He will be ashamed of you before His father.

Look up Ezekiel and what God said to him about the role of watchmen. Then come back and tell me what you learned.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:07:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 10:09:11 AM EST by sgtar15]
.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:08:21 AM EST
This BAC doesn't agree with the UCC.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:09:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 10:10:01 AM EST by arowneragain]
.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:10:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:11:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 10:19:01 AM EST by sgtar15]
ETH..where is that link of the churtch you said you went to.

I could have sworn it was a UCC church, if not then I stand corrected.


SGat1r5
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 10:54:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:00:29 AM EST
You people put too much thought into interpreting the bible. People twist it to say whatever they want which is probably the main reason why I am agnostic/athiest. The actions of the anti-gay and anti-abortion types is distinctly un-Christian.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:17:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:29:10 AM EST
United Church of Christ is an offshoot of the Lutherans. They are the church that had their TV commercails pulled because of pressure by religious zealots, who didnt like their message of accepting everyone. They apparently had an image, among others, of two men holding hands, or something along those lines. Also, supporting "women's reproductive freedom" doesnt only mean abortion, It also applies to birth control.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:36:09 AM EST
Where Exactly does it say in the bible that the procedure known as Abortion is illegal?
Christians use "conjecture" to say that Abortion is wrong, but there is no real proof that it is considered a sin. It does not specfically spell it out now does it? Show me where in the bible it says that an unformed(unborn) fetus is considered a human being? are there any examples of a person causing a pregnant woman to misscarriage then being put to death for it? And why is it that according to Torah law it is permissable to terminate a pregnancy in order to save the life of the mother?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:40:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:44:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 11:45:13 AM EST by happycynic]

Originally Posted By DLoken:
You people put too much thought into interpreting the bible. People twist it to say whatever they want which is probably the main reason why I am agnostic/athiest. The actions of the anti-gay and anti-abortion types is distinctly un-Christian.




You state that one should not put too much thought in interpreting the Bible, yet you know definitively what is or is not un-Christian?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:45:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/19/2005 11:56:45 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:49:07 AM EST
Nutty UCC folks were protesting ROTC and encouraging us to "beat our swords into plowshares".

Had to resist the temptation to take them up on their offer with their heads being the percussive instrument.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:11:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
You people put too much thought into interpreting the bible.


We wouldn't spend five minutes on 'interpreting' the Bible IF it was not so very crucial to Salvation.


Eric The(Fundamental)Hun



Gotta agree with you there 100%.

I study the Bible just so I am sure that I am getting the right message.

As a matter of fact, it is arguements just like this that DROVE me back to the Bible so I could learn more of the truth, and for that I am thankful.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:19:40 PM EST
Eric, I'm glad you chose Exodus 21 22-23 because this is exactly the passage that allows!! for abortion to be performed! to save the life of the mother. Now heres the biggest problem with which you might not agree. The King James Version of that passage is slightly incorrect and it also since it is written in Old English (elizabethian) it is frequently missunderstood by modern english speakers.
Here it is in St james version:If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life

Now here is the updates version using modern English from the original hebrew:
When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage (meaning the child dies), and yet no harm follows (the woman) the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the womans husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye............"
this comes from a revised st jamess edition printed in 1901.
Now prior to even Jesus being born (when Jewish law still applied) The Temple preists and Rabbis of the law pointed to this passage to allow the procedure in case of rape or a unforeseen medical problem. The passage in Hebrew is different than that of St.James The scholars back then did not consult Hebrew rabbis and did not speak Hebrew as their native tounge so they #1 misunderstood the word in the Torah which means "misscarriage" so they put in 'Her fruit depart', Also in st. james it says "no harm follow" which in English is ambiguous, are they talking about the mother or the fetus? But in the original Hebrew the word is in reference to the mother (female indicator) not the fetus. Actually I did'nt want to bring up this passage cause their is a whole bunch of stuff about it, but since you brought it up I guess I have no choice. I would like to post the passage in the original Hebrew but most people dont have the Hebrew Language setup on their windows XP so it would appear as jibberish. Maybe I could use a .jpg or phonetic spelling?
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:31:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Eric, I'm glad you chose Exodus 21 22-23 because this is exactly the passage that allows!! for abortion to be performed! to save the life of the mother. Now heres the biggest problem with which you might not agree. The King James Version of that passage is slightly incorrect and it also since it is written in Old English (elizabethian) it is frequently missunderstood by modern english speakers.
Here it is in St james version:If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life

Now here is the updates version using modern English from the original hebrew:
When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage (meaning the child dies), and yet no harm follows (the woman) the one who hurt her shall be fined according as the womans husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye............"
this comes from a revised st jamess edition printed in 1901.
Now prior to even Jesus being born (when Jewish law still applied) The Temple preists and Rabbis of the law pointed to this passage to allow the procedure in case of rape or a unforeseen medical problem. The passage in Hebrew is different than that of St.James The scholars back then did not consult Hebrew rabbis and did not speak Hebrew as their native tounge so they #1 misunderstood the word in the Torah which means "misscarriage" so they put in 'Her fruit depart', Also in st. james it says "no harm follow" which in English is ambiguous, are they talking about the mother or the fetus? But in the original Hebrew the word is in reference to the mother (female indicator) not the fetus. Actually I did'nt want to bring up this passage cause their is a whole bunch of stuff about it, but since you brought it up I guess I have no choice. I would like to post the passage in the original Hebrew but most people dont have the Hebrew Language setup on their windows XP so it would appear as jibberish. Maybe I could use a .jpg or phonetic spelling?



I don't think you can take that passage as support for abortion. The passage clearly provides that causing a miscarriage is a harmful and wrong. It is true that the punishment is less severe than the murder of an adult male, but I don't think the reason for this is that the fetus was not valued as a human life. It is more likely related to the fact that the Israelites didn't have a clue what was going on inside the womb. Remember that miscarriage was a relatively common event until very recent times. For instance, in early American law harm to a fetus was not treated as equivalent to murder, even though abortion was almost universally outlawed. Why? Because there really was no way to be sure that the miscarriage was the result of the physical injury, or was due to some other cause. Thus, the law did not punish those who caused miscarriage as murders because they did not want to risk convicting someone of murder when their only real crime was a minor form of assault and battery.

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:34:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:



It's amazing what lengths you go to to try and discredit the Bible.

Just remember, one day, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess.....
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:35:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By t-stox:



It's amazing what lengths you go to to try and discredit the Bible.

Just remember, one day, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess.....



He's not trying to discredit the Bioble as much as he is trying to justify his own immoral actions.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:42:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:44:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By t-stox:



It's amazing what lengths you go to to try and discredit the Bible.

Just remember, one day, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess.....



He's not trying to discredit the Bioble as much as he is trying to justify his own immoral actions.


Sgat1r5



6 of 1, half-dozen of the other.....

It's common, though.

Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:50:46 PM EST
Pride goeth before the fall.

And many, many people here will fall.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 1:00:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Funny, I thought that church was all BAC and devout?


Do not confuse the United Churches of Christ, with the Church of Christ.

Totally different group, totally different doctrines and views.

Anytime you see 'United' in any denomination's name...you must expect something different.

Eric The(ChurchOfChristMember)Hun


Exactly.

I'm a UCC'er but have never known their views on abortion.
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