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Posted: 1/31/2011 3:13:07 AM EDT
http://boingboing.net/2011/01/28/ayn-rand-took-govern.html

Leaving it cold.



And an interesting rebuttal:

http://boingboing.net/2011/01/28/ayn-rand-took-govern.html
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:19:30 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 3:58:11 AM EDT
Has anyone considered why the left is now going out of their way to discredit an author who's been dead for nearly 30 years? I thought she was just a fringe radical with no real ideas who is roughly obscure and unknown to most people.

Yeah, they know in their hearts that she was right.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:05:31 AM EDT
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:17:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:22:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336


I'll get that documentary coming. Does it go into her promiscuous sex life and her fascination with serial killers? Those are two of the "bizarre" examples I've read about. The promiscuity I can understand, as she was a true libertarian. Hell, I guess that even explains the serial killer thing, kinda.

Libertarians are a little different. I consider myself one, but some of those people are "different".
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 4:24:01 AM EDT
She had a valid political philosophy that could have been written down in 1/10 of the pages, without such an air of self-importance.

Beyond that, she was a sad, egotistic, cold-hearted, unempathetic, mean-spirited human being.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:47:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 5:48:58 AM EDT by TurboniumOxide]
She actually contributed to society and actually deserved the cash she got from the government.
After all, the government took so much of her money, unearned.

Genius is often misunderstood. Also it doesn't matter what she was like in real life. Attack the messenger
and all that. These actions of the petty and childish are always ultimately unsuccessful.

It's hard living among the stupid children that wear adult bodies, and a lifetime of it can make you bitter
and hateful of the slugs. I get it.

Still doesn't invalidate her philosophy.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:48:34 AM EDT
tag for later.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:52:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336


I'll get that documentary coming. Does it go into her promiscuous sex life and her fascination with serial killers? Those are two of the "bizarre" examples I've read about. The promiscuity I can understand, as she was a true libertarian. Hell, I guess that even explains the serial killer thing, kinda.

Libertarians are a little different. I consider myself one, but some of those people are "different".
She was not promiscuous, she had one affair, but had a happy and long lasting marriage. She also was not fascinated with serial killers, frankly, I don't understand why people repeat that crap.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:54:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
She had a valid political philosophy that could have been written down in 1/10 of the pages, without such an air of self-importance.

Beyond that, she was a sad, egotistic, cold-hearted, unempathetic, mean-spirited human being.

And this is based on what? I find that most people who repeat those very same talking points, almost verbatim, know absolutely nothing about Rand other than what leftists and butt-hurt Christians repeat without having to address any of Rand principles. Sorta like just dismissing every Tea Partier as being racist.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:55:42 AM EDT
Keep in mind that once you break free from the herd the ranchers will marginalize you. Isn't it interesting how we all (myself included) beleive what we have always heard or read without actually checking on the facts?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:56:51 AM EDT
She never said people shouldn't accept government funds that were available. She said that the government has unjustly taken so much, that you should do anything you can to get it back.

See her “The Question of Scholarships" essay for more.

What is unjust and immoral to advocate for these programs to continue, or to vote for politicians who will continue and expand them.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 5:59:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:00:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336


I'll get that documentary coming. Does it go into her promiscuous sex life and her fascination with serial killers? Those are two of the "bizarre" examples I've read about. The promiscuity I can understand, as she was a true libertarian. Hell, I guess that even explains the serial killer thing, kinda.

Libertarians are a little different. I consider myself one, but some of those people are "different".

I had a fascination with serial killers for awhile. There was about a two year window where I read every book I found on them. I really only started after a friend lent me a book on Gacy.

I never got the promiscuity thing... I mean I get it as part of the "philosophy" but it always rang as more of an excuse than anything else.

I imagine they are still after her today the same way we go after things like "The New Deal". It's just the other side of the coin.... too bad for them that our side is the right side


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:01:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 6:08:19 AM EDT by MP0117]
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Has anyone considered why the left is now going out of their way to discredit an author who's been dead for nearly 30 years? I thought she was just a fringe radical with no real ideas who is roughly obscure and unknown to most people.

Yeah, they know in their hearts that she was right.


I'll go with this.

She's dangerous to the left's program.

ETA - Unfortuneatly, I've been on food stamps before, but I paid in to the system for literally DECADES.

IT'S MY MONEY.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:10:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shakes525:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336


I'll get that documentary coming. Does it go into her promiscuous sex life and her fascination with serial killers? Those are two of the "bizarre" examples I've read about. The promiscuity I can understand, as she was a true libertarian. Hell, I guess that even explains the serial killer thing, kinda.

Libertarians are a little different. I consider myself one, but some of those people are "different".

I had a fascination with serial killers for awhile. There was about a two year window where I read every book I found on them. I really only started after a friend lent me a book on Gacy.

I never got the promiscuity thing... I mean I get it as part of the "philosophy" but it always rang as more of an excuse than anything else.

I imagine they are still after her today the same way we go after things like "The New Deal". It's just the other side of the coin.... too bad for them that our side is the right side


Having an affair does not make one promiscuous. Additionally, if the spouse has no problem with it, then why should it be of anyone else's business? I wonder who would be left if we were to discredit everyone who has had sex with more than 1 person.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:20:19 AM EDT
Here some quotes from the evil, sadistic woman, Ayn Rand


The secular meaning of the Christmas holiday is wider than the tenets of any particular religion: it is good will toward men—a frame of mind which is not the exclusive property (though it is supposed to be part, but is a largely unobserved part) of the Christian religion.
The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in a cheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says: "Merry Christmas”—not "Weep and Repent.” And the good will is expressed in a material, earthly form—by giving presents to one’s friends, or by sending them cards in token of remembrance . . . .

(do you just feel the evil within her?)

Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.

(OMG she saying that you need to look to yourself and work to gain happiness! What a quack!)


"Love is our response to our highest values - and can be nothing else."
(What a bitch!)



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:29:23 AM EDT
Go watch the Mike Wallace interviews with Ayn Rand on Youtube.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:32:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Atlas Shrugged was a great book, but Ayn Rand was kind of a wierdo from what I understand. That book didn't really even sell until ten years ago.

So she took social security, who cares? Her book may have relevance, but she's dead. And the book was actually fiction.

You would be wrong.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Ayn-Rand-A-Sense-of-Life/1181568?strackid=597549c742eae617_0_srl&strkid=611001451_0_0&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&trkid=222336


I'll get that documentary coming. Does it go into her promiscuous sex life and her fascination with serial killers? Those are two of the "bizarre" examples I've read about. The promiscuity I can understand, as she was a true libertarian. Hell, I guess that even explains the serial killer thing, kinda.

Libertarians are a little different. I consider myself one, but some of those people are "different".


Charlie's Angels was her favorite television show.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 6:50:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:50:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 7:50:39 AM EDT by gearjammer351]
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
I find that most people who repeat those very same talking points, almost verbatim, know absolutely nothing about Rand other than what leftists and butt-hurt Christians repeat without having to address any of Rand principles.


Same here. Nearly everyone I've talked to that hates her cannot tell me one single word she wrote. They read someone else's criticism of her life, relationships, and flaws (and occasionally someone notes that she was one of them there Joooooos), and blather on about that. The few who can use something she writes will use only a single sentence or phrase.

I ask what about her philosophy they disagree with and they can't even say, much less refute it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:09:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:09:46 AM EDT by Eukatae]
The accusations of hypocrisy and philosophical dissonance in the comments are, well, stupid. Reason, it seems, is hard.

If I were Rand the first thing I would do in her situation is go after social security or medicare money. I still regard 70% the money the government has taken from me as mine. Including, of course, everything taken as social security. I suspect Rand felt similarly. Thus I would attempt to spend monies that belonged to me but over which I had very little control first.

Despite my disapproval of social security it exists, my disapproval doesn't make it not exist. In light of its existence it would be wrong of me to refuse it, both because it is essentially my money, and because refusing it would constitute harm to myself and those interests I hold dear: Spending my "free" money for health care when there is an alternative that is due me unnecessarily damages my own future or the future of my beneficiaries.

It is impossible to base ones behavior on a condition that does not exist. To act like social security does not exist when it does is stupid and impossible.

Therefore it is ethical, logical, and philosophically consistent that she should seek social security.



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:14:00 AM EDT
Not sure what the big deal is. If I think the speed limit should be 100 then I drive 65 until I get congress to change the law.

Also objectivists love being exclusive. If during your 75 year lifetime you ever took any government help such as driving on a public street, they decry you as a liberal/conservative/libertarian but certainly not objectivist.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:29:52 AM EDT
Honestly, I think it would be a flaw. But yet no one has any proof that she did take Social Security.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:30:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:32:02 AM EDT by stutzcattle]
Originally Posted By TimJ:
OMG, that whore!

useful idiots parrot the party line, just like they do regarding Sarah Palin (who I know is no Ayn Rand)


Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Here some quotes from the evil, sadistic woman, Ayn Rand


The secular meaning of the Christmas holiday is wider thanthe tenets of any particular religion: it is good will toward men—a frame ofmind which is not the exclusive property (though it is supposed to be part, butis a largely unobserved part) of the Christian religion.
The charming aspect of Christmas is the fact that it expresses good will in acheerful, happy, benevolent, non-sacrificial way. One says: "MerryChristmas”—not "Weep and Repent.” And the good will is expressed in amaterial, earthly form—by giving presents to one’s friends, or by sendingthem cards in token of remembrance . . . .

(do you just feel the evil within her?)

Learn to value yourself, which means: to fight for your happiness.

(OMG she saying that you need to look to yourself and work to gain happiness! What a quack!)


"Love is our response to our highest values - and can be nothing else."
(What a bitch!)







I read Atlas Shrugged. Thought it was a great book, though a little long.

I did not know Ayn Rand personally. I've never met her or spent any time with anyone that has. Therefore, I make my judgements of her through my interpretation of other peoples comments. I don't give a flying fuck is she slept with everyone she could. I don't care if she was/wasn't jewish. I don't care if she took/didn't take money from the gov't.

She was a talented author who had a political philosophy that I agree with for the most part.

ETA: I'm gonna have to go back and she how she defined a "looter".
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:35:52 AM EDT
She wasn't Jewish, she was an devout and outspoken atheist.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:42:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
She wasn't Jewish, she was an devout and outspoken atheist.


I know that; I've actually read her books. I mean that she's Jewish in the ethnic sense (the Jewish as ethnicity vs. religion is a whole different argument that I'll not go into) .

Some people revel in pointing that out -as though it matters. That was kinda my point: most detractors point at all sorts of things about her that are irrelevant and never address the tenets of her philosophy.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:43:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gearjammer351:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
She wasn't Jewish, she was an devout and outspoken atheist.


I know that; I've actually read her books. I mean that she's Jewish in the ethnic sense (the Jewish as ethnicity vs. religion is a whole different argument that I'll not go into) .

Some people revel in pointing that out -as though it matters. That was kinda my point: most detractors point at all sorts of things about her that are irrelevant and never address the tenets of her philosophy.
Gotcha.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:50:44 AM EDT
Terry Goodkind writes fantasy novels from a similar philosophical perspective, and he's suffered much the same fate. There are people out there who're determined to slander and belittle the work and person of anyone who dares make them think.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:11:09 PM EDT
I ended up writing a whole article about this.

Rational Public Radio
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:24:49 PM EDT
Don't know about you all, but the architecture and culture levels portrayed in Fallout 3 feels like the cities and setting for Atlas Shrugged.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 7:47:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ronnoc:
Don't know about you all, but the architecture and culture levels portrayed in Fallout 3 feels like the cities and setting for Atlas Shrugged.


I'd say that Bioshock was a little closer.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 6:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TurboniumOxide:
She actually contributed to society and actually deserved the cash she got from the government.
After all, the government took so much of her money, unearned.

Genius is often misunderstood. Also it doesn't matter what she was like in real life. Attack the messenger
and all that. These actions of the petty and childish are always ultimately unsuccessful.

It's hard living among the stupid children that wear adult bodies, and a lifetime of it can make you bitter
and hateful of the slugs. I get it.

Still doesn't invalidate her philosophy.



+1
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