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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/16/2003 3:37:30 PM EDT
On 60 Minutes tonight they had a Lt.Col. from the Army, a two-time winner of the Bronze Star & one Purple Heart in Viet Nam. Apparently he was kicked out for being a fag.

Nothing new there but the kicker was/is that he had served 19 years & 357 days. Yep, eight days short of having his 20 years in.

Now, I'm certainly all in favor in kicking fags out of the military, no doubt on that. But a guy who's had two Bronze Stars deserves to get his last eight days in, IMO.

Any of you vets have any thoughts on this particular case?
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:41:45 PM EDT
Now that just sucks!
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:44:14 PM EDT
He was reamed, metaphorically speaking. Especially after 20 years and I assume a completely clean record of honorable service.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:44:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 3:45:07 PM EDT by cyanide]
yeah, he deserved to punch out with a retirement.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:45:27 PM EDT
A guy with 2 bronze stars and a purple heart can puff all the peters he wants to. They need to give him his 8 days and his retirement. He has more then earned it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:04:09 PM EDT
I've got less sympathy. He CHOSE to stay in an organization with the full knowledge of their rules.

Just because he got away with breaking the rules for almost 20 years - doesn't change the fact that he was willfully breaking the rules.

Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:15:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By einnor1040:
A guy with 2 bronze stars and a purple heart can puff all the peters he wants to.


i'll second that
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:24:36 PM EDT
a rip-off.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:30:08 PM EDT
That just sucks cock.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:24:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 6:25:55 PM EDT by raven]
He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization. That's not allowed (although I dont know if they can axe your pension over it).
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:39:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 6:45:27 PM EDT by dpmmn]

Originally Posted By raven:
He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization. That's not allowed (although I dont know if they can axe your pension over it).



I would have to agree with Raven on this one.
He might deserve a court marshal, not his pension. Rules are Rules and fraternization is never tolerated.


Edited to add:

Remember the case a few years back about Lt. Kelly Flynn (I think that was her name)
The only female B-52 pilot, who was having sex with an enlisted man. She was court marshaled for fraternization, and this was hetero but still fraternization.
So think about it I think he got off easy.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:48:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization. That's not allowed (although I dont know if they can axe your pension over it).



I think the Army handled this case correctly. The man in question had just been selected for O-6. His leadership and judgement should be beyond reproach. Instead, he preyed upon a PFC and took compromising photographs of him. A leader does not take advantage of young, impressionable servicemembers.

Sorry - he's not being picked on because he's gay. He is being held accountable for his actions.

Remember Kelly Flynn? What happened to her?
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization. That's not allowed (although I dont know if they can axe your pension over it).


Bingo.

Just because he wasn't caught for those 19 years and 357 days doesn't make it right. It doesn't matter if he was one minute from retirement, he broke the rules he agreed to uphold...and he did it for presumably two decades.

Kick his ass out and let door hit him there too. Regardless of sexual orientation, a person with a higher rank cannot and should not be intimately involved with someone with a lesser rank. The lesser ranked person may feel pressured by the difference in rank. Now, add in the homosexuality to the equation and even more rules are disregarded.

This man deserved what he got, plain and simple. I saw the segment and this was my observation.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:02:42 PM EDT
Sorry Bob,

I gotta agree with the speeding beagle on this one.


Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Sorry - he's not being picked on because he's gay. He is being held accountable for his actions.



The pole smoker knew the rules but chose to break them.

Is it possible the only reason he was able to remain "undetected" for almost 20 years was through his abuse of power and rank??
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:22:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 7:25:03 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization.


Not only that but he took pictures and video himself and the 19 year old Private. The Private embarrassed and afraid the pictures would get out set fire to the Colonel house to destroy the pictures.

Apparently the Colonel had quite a library of his performances.

I think this viewed in its best light has issues of fraternization, judgment, and abuse of rank.

He knew the risk he was putting this 19 year Private at, did not give a damn, and took pictures. If this Private in question had been a 19 year old female he would have been in just as much trouble. The degenerate bastard got what he deserved.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:24:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

He had sex with an enlisted man not under his chain of command. Even without issues of abuse of power and homosexuality, there are issues of fraternization.

Not only that but he took pictures and video himself and the 19 year old Private. The Private embarrassed and afraid the pictures would get out set fire to the Colonel house to destroy the pictures.

Apparently the Colonel had quite a library of his performances.

I think this viewed in its best light has issues of fraternization, judgment, and abuse of rank.

He knew the risk he was putting this 19 year Private at, did not give a damn, and took pictures, the degenerate bastard got what he deserved.


Amen.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:18:11 AM EDT
I am glad they kicked that sick fuck out I am joining the army soon and i don't want some fag putting the moves on me. I watched the story and until I got to the part where they said he took pics and hooked it with a private I thought he should get his retirement but when I heard that I changed my mind.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:27:31 AM EDT
"Peter Puffin' Privates" There's some aliteration for ya!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:30:33 AM EDT
Two Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart buy him retirement in my opinion. The regulations he broke should have bought him a court martial.

The court martial results should have reduced him by one rank and forced him into retirement.

Regulations would have been enforced and he would have gotten a Major's retirement which, IMHO, he richly deserves.

5sub
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:18:48 AM EDT
I've got to agree with DK Prof on this one. He knew the rules and he broke them, further, he violated the trust of a junior enlisted man in the process. He's lucky he didn't get Court Martialed out. His Bronze Stars probably saved him from that indignity.

I personally don't give a damn if a soldier is gay or not so long as he does his or her job and I never have to know that he or she is gay. They can "come out" when they get out of service.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 11:26:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Two Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart buy him retirement in my opinion. The regulations he broke should have bought him a court martial.

The court martial results should have reduced him by one rank and forced him into retirement.

Regulations would have been enforced and he would have gotten a Major's retirement which, IMHO, he richly deserves.

5sub



Where is it written that earning a bronze star and a PH gives you a free pass? A sexual predator is a sexual predator.

Not to disparage veterans, as I am sorta one myself (Navy), but the guy was doing his duty when he earned them. I was fully aware I might be called into the line of fire when I enlisted, but as it happens I was not.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 2:14:13 PM EDT


further, he violated the trust of a junior enlisted man in the process.



thats how I feel, obviously the private wasn't so willing if he went as far as to burn down the guys house.

But then again he was a adult so I have to guess he was gay or else he wouldn't of let the officer do that to him??
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 2:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pogo:

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Two Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart buy him retirement in my opinion. The regulations he broke should have bought him a court martial.

The court martial results should have reduced him by one rank and forced him into retirement.

Regulations would have been enforced and he would have gotten a Major's retirement which, IMHO, he richly deserves.

5sub



Where is it written that earning a bronze star and a PH gives you a free pass? A sexual predator is a sexual predator.

Not to disparage veterans, as I am sorta one myself (Navy), but the guy was doing his duty when he earned them. I was fully aware I might be called into the line of fire when I enlisted, but as it happens I was not.



When he received the Bronze Star he was operating at a level above simply "doing his duty".
No free pass - I would reduced him in rank and demanded that he retire (see above).

5sub
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 2:37:16 PM EDT
Oh, well I change my answer if Fraternization was involved.

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 6:13:28 PM EDT
Piss on him.

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