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Posted: 4/18/2008 10:34:47 AM EDT
Sounds like a crackling good idea!


Appearing about 240 BC, incendiary pigs were an interesting weapon thought to have been utilized in ancient Roman warfare. The concept was to cover the pig in tar and a flammable substance and, when lured close enough to the advancing or defending enemy the pigs would then be lit on fire. The hope was that the pigs would run uncontrollably into the ranks of the opposing force, causing a certain level of confusion. In any event, the idea was to make use of the weapon as a psychological tool to harass or scare the enemy into submission, or break his concentration at the very least.

Eventually the pig would either die of the excruciating pain of being burned alive or be killed by the oncoming enemy. This weapon of ancient warfare was extremely time sensitive so handlers would have to work fast to make the effort worthwhile.

It is suggested that this weapon concept was found to be most useful against other livestock such as horses and the mighty war elephants, as any bit of confusion and damage from fire could set these animals off in the wrong direction in a flurry.

As inhumane as the thought of setting live animals on fire was, the art of ancient warfare in terms of ranged weapons (limited then to arrows, spears, slings and catapults), could still be thought of as in its infancy. The idea of incendiary pigs, even in concept, must not have been an overly effective or accurate form of ranged psychological warfare as its use is not mentioned often.

Though no official records exist of incendiary pigs being used in combat practice such as this, a few writings by Pliny the Elder touch on the idea. Chinese lore also includes the concept of incendiary monkeys as a battlefield weapon. Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range. Obviously, the idea of utilizing animals in place of humans in warfare was a beneficial one to any army.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=148
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:36:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Sounds like a crackling good idea!


Appearing about 240 BC, incendiary pigs were an interesting weapon thought to have been utilized in ancient Roman warfare. The concept was to cover the pig in tar and a flammable substance and, when lured close enough to the advancing or defending enemy the pigs would then be lit on fire. The hope was that the pigs would run uncontrollably into the ranks of the opposing force, causing a certain level of confusion. In any event, the idea was to make use of the weapon as a psychological tool to harass or scare the enemy into submission, or break his concentration at the very least.

Eventually the pig would either die of the excruciating pain of being burned alive or be killed by the oncoming enemy. This weapon of ancient warfare was extremely time sensitive so handlers would have to work fast to make the effort worthwhile.

It is suggested that this weapon concept was found to be most useful against other livestock such as horses and the mighty war elephants, as any bit of confusion and damage from fire could set these animals off in the wrong direction in a flurry.

As inhumane as the thought of setting live animals on fire was, the art of ancient warfare in terms of ranged weapons (limited then to arrows, spears, slings and catapults), could still be thought of as in its infancy. The idea of incendiary pigs, even in concept, must not have been an overly effective or accurate form of ranged psychological warfare as its use is not mentioned often.

Though no official records exist of incendiary pigs being used in combat practice such as this, a few writings by Pliny the Elder touch on the idea. Chinese lore also includes the concept of incendiary monkeys as a battlefield weapon. Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range. Obviously, the idea of utilizing animals in place of humans in warfare was a beneficial one to any army.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=148


RTW  FTW


(Rome Total War)
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:36:46 AM EDT
I could see the mass panic now.

God that must smell good too.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:37:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 10:37:47 AM EDT by Screechjet1]
I'm willing to bet some QinetiQ or DARPA guy just read this and is thinking "ummm, pigs."
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:42:37 AM EDT
NO MS PAINT!!!





BANHAMMER
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:44:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:46:06 AM EDT

Incendiary pigs and monkeys. Awesome!
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:48:37 AM EDT
And there's Samson's incinedrary foxes from the Bible...

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:49:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swede1986:
Incendiary pigs and monkeys. Awesome!


We tried to used bats dropped from bombers  to deliver small fire bombs to Japanese cities
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:50:30 AM EDT
Sounds a little like the Bat Bomb.


Bat bombs were tiny incendiary bombs attached to bats, that were developed by the United States during World War II with the hope of attacking mainland Japan. Four biological factors gave promise to this plan. First, bats occur in large numbers (four caves in Texas are each occupied by several million bats). Second, bats can carry more than their own weight in flight (females carry their young — sometimes twins). Third, bats hibernate, and while dormant they do not require food or complicated maintenance. Fourth, bats fly in darkness, then find secretive places (such as flammable buildings) to hide during daylight.

The plan was to release bomb-laden bats at night over Japanese industrial targets. The flying bats would disperse widely, then at dawn they would hide in buildings and shortly thereafter built-in timers would ignite the bombs, causing widespread fires and chaos. The bat bomb idea was conceived by dental surgeon Lytle S. Adams, who submitted it to the White House in January, 1942, where it was subsequently approved by President Roosevelt.[1] Adams was recruited to research and obtain a suitable supply of bats.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:52:08 AM EDT
To the Victor Go the Bacon!!!
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By swede1986:
Incendiary pigs and monkeys. Awesome!


We tried to used bats dropped from bombers  to deliver small fire bombs to Japanese cities



Yes, but didn't the little suckers fly into a USAAF hanger to roost and burn it down rather than the 'target' during a test?
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:53:44 AM EDT
I took a new sigline from that article
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:03:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By swede1986:
Incendiary pigs and monkeys. Awesome!


We tried to used bats dropped from bombers  to deliver small fire bombs to Japanese cities



Yes, but didn't the little suckers fly into a USAAF hanger to roost and burn it down rather than the 'target' during a test?



Thought so!

www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/stories/japanese-balloons-bats-3974.html

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:05:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

Originally Posted By swede1986:
Incendiary pigs and monkeys. Awesome!


We tried to used bats dropped from bombers  to deliver small fire bombs to Japanese cities



Yes, but didn't the little suckers fly into a USAAF hanger to roost and burn it down rather than the 'target' during a test?



Thought so!

www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/stories/japanese-balloons-bats-3974.html



Yep
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:18:09 AM EDT
Unit 731 had flea bombs, full of bubonic plague carrying fleas and dropped them in China.  IIRC they dropped some other nasty's on the civilian population as well.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:21:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Unit 731 had flea bombs, full of bubonic plague carrying fleas and dropped them in China.  IIRC they dropped some other nasty's on the civilian population as well.



I'll see your Biological weapons  and raise you my Chemical Weapons!




Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:29:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range.


from what i've read, the dogs were trained to run under enemy tanks.  a tall tilt mechanism would detonate the AT charge when it contacted the glacis.

the problem was that the dogs did precisely what they were trained to do, and ran under exactly the type of tank they were trained upon--soviet tanks.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:29:57 AM EDT
Lets see:

Causes panic confusion chaos for the enemy all while fumigating the AO with the sweet perfume of cooking bacon.

WIN

Sounds like we should still be using this???
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:33:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 11:33:41 AM EDT by Merrell]
The thought of incendiary mimes used in battle is almost to awful to contemplate.

Imagine them gesticulating wildly as they run ablaze into the enemy ranks...

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:41:37 AM EDT
I'm actually pretty familiar with the Roman tactic using flaming pigs to send into enemy lines.  The reason it wasn't used that much, and why there aren't a lot of notes mentioning it in writing, is that the pigs weren't really that successful.  The problem is that the pigs tended to run through the Roman lines more often than the enemy's.

Now if they would have loaded up a ballista or catapult with a flaming pig, that might have been interesting.  Of course, in my opinion, if I were an enemy soldier and had a flaming pig rocketed over to my line, I would have thanked the Romans for sending me a cooked dinner.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:04:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range.


from what i've read, the dogs were trained to run under enemy tanks.  a tall tilt mechanism would detonate the AT charge when it contacted the glacis.

the problem was that the dogs did precisely what they were trained to do, and ran under exactly the type of tank they were trained upon--soviet tanks.



Doah!!!...stupid trained dogs
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:09:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range.


from what i've read, the dogs were trained to run under enemy tanks.  a tall tilt mechanism would detonate the AT charge when it contacted the glacis.

the problem was that the dogs did precisely what they were trained to do, and ran under exactly the type of tank they were trained upon--soviet tanks.


Yup. The dogs recognized the scent of the russian diesel fuel while the germans used petrol.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:18:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Merrell:
The thought of incendiary mimes used in battle is almost to awful to contemplate.

Imagine them gesticulating wildly as they run ablaze into the enemy ranks...



Fucking Mimes.

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:30:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
sorry, but this was my first thought


The OP would have been so much better if this had been playing the first time I read it. You can picture the two armies meeting in slow-mo, some guys bringing forth a pig and slathering it in tar, then the beet drops, the pig is set aflame, and away it goes causing hell!
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:42:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:44:48 PM EDT
Member the episode of Andy Griffith where the goat eats all the blasting ordinance?



Link Posted: 4/18/2008 1:11:47 PM EDT
Might work in Afghanistan and Iraq pretty well.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 1:18:58 PM EDT
Dogs have been used in warfare since we first domesticated them. They act as early-warning systems, guards, skirmishers, and "oh shit I'm gonna get eaten" psychological weapons.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 1:38:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Anti-tank dogs were reported to have been used by the Soviet Union to combat invading German Armor at close range.


from what i've read, the dogs were trained to run under enemy tanks.  a tall tilt mechanism would detonate the AT charge when it contacted the glacis.

the problem was that the dogs did precisely what they were trained to do, and ran under exactly the type of tank they were trained upon--soviet tanks.


The sad truth about the Soviet Mine Dog program is that the very first time they were used at Kursk, the noise of the German vehicles scared the dogs so badly that they ran away...and went straight under the trucks that their handlers had released them from!

The Soviets experienced numerous weapons debacles in the course of experimentation in The Great Patriotic War.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 1:48:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LadyMacBeth:


That reminds me I need to go to the drug store and pick up some Tucks.

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 2:08:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 2:09:35 PM EDT by Tazaroo]
Here is some footage of German scientists testing a flamethrower on a live pig.  I love the part where the kraut scientists give the piggie some water to help it from completely shocking out and dying.  Rumor has it that in the extended video, they feed some of the cooked meat to the pig to see what a pig the pig is.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-hmitxlnU

Someone make the link hot please.........no pun intended.

I'm german (Prussian) so don't anyone get mad at the kraut reference please.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 2:12:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
Here is some footage of German scientists testing a flamethrower on a live pig.  I love the part where the kraut scientists give the piggie some water to help it from completely shocking out and dying.  Rumor has it that in the extended video, they feed some of the cooked meat to the pig to see what a pig the pig is.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-hmitxlnU

Someone make the link hot please.........no pun intended.

I'm german (Prussian) so don't anyone get mad at the kraut reference please.  


Nah, it's ok to call Germans krauts, huns, etc. They're white, so we can get away with it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 2:13:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
Here is some footage of German scientists testing a flamethrower on a live pig.  I love the part where the kraut scientists give the piggie some water to help it from completely shocking out and dying.  Rumor has it that in the extended video, they feed some of the cooked meat to the pig to see what a pig the pig is.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-hmitxlnU

Someone make the link hot please.........no pun intended.

I'm german (Prussian) so don't anyone get mad at the kraut reference please.  


Nah, it's ok to call Germans krauts, huns, etc. They're white, so we can get away with it.



You reckon? I've jad an warning about using the 'K word…
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 2:22:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Angelshare1:
Member the episode of Andy Griffith where the goat eats all the blasting ordinance?





Yes - hadn't thought of that in years.....
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 2:34:55 PM EDT
My MS paint foo SUCKS so bad I will not post it anywhere.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 2:33:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
Here is some footage of German scientists testing a flamethrower on a live pig.  I love the part where the kraut scientists give the piggie some water to help it from completely shocking out and dying.  Rumor has it that in the extended video, they feed some of the cooked meat to the pig to see what a pig the pig is.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-hmitxlnU

Someone make the link hot please.........no pun intended.

I'm german (Prussian) so don't anyone get mad at the kraut reference please.  



After the tests on pigs those scientist moved on to experimenting with live human subjects in a number of Concentration Camps…
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 2:46:53 AM EDT
I'd like to see an incendiary Kangaroo. A flaming big red roo, now that would be a sight!
Man, those things can move.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 2:57:50 AM EDT
Can you imagine the effect air dropping a few thousand of those things over Iran?
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 3:06:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Can you imagine the effect air dropping a few thousand of those things over Iran?




Strange but true…

The Israelis toyed with the idea in the 70's of painting up a captured Russian made transport plane in Soviet Air Force colours filling it up with pigs and flying over Mecca and dropping them on to the Holy of Holys!

Now that really would have made the shit hit the very big fan!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 3:12:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2008 3:13:12 AM EDT by TexasRifleman1985]

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Can you imagine the effect air dropping a few thousand of those things over Iran?




Strange but true…

The Israelis toyed with the idea in the 70's of painting up a captured Russian made transport plane in Soviet Air Force colours filling it up with pigs and flying over Mecca and dropping them on to the Holy of Holys!

Now that really would have made the shit hit the very big fan!!!!!


Airborne Incendiary Pigs: When a strategic nuclear warhead just won't cause enough geopolitical chaos.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 5:18:21 AM EDT
Reminds me of the British Navy sending in fire ships into an enemy harbor.  Wait 'till the wind is right, steer for the port, set it on fire and abandon ship.  Depended on a lot of factors, but if it worked correctly it could do a lot of damage.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 2:59:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
Here is some footage of German scientists testing a flamethrower on a live pig.  I love the part where the kraut scientists give the piggie some water to help it from completely shocking out and dying.  Rumor has it that in the extended video, they feed some of the cooked meat to the pig to see what a pig the pig is.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-hmitxlnU

Someone make the link hot please.........no pun intended.

I'm german (Prussian) so don't anyone get mad at the kraut reference please.  



After the tests on pigs those scientist moved on to experimenting with live human subjects in a number of Concentration Camps…


FWIW.........I believe that footage is from the 70's.
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