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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:44:32 PM EDT
Took my new AR pistol out to the range for the first time yesterday; Franklin Armory 10.5" SE-SSP with Larue rear fixed BUIS and T-1 Aimpoint.:
I zero'd the irons and T-1 at 25 yards, 1" below the center of the bullseye (NRA Pistol tagert with 8" bullseye). Groups were dime-sized. Ammo was PMC 55gr. Magazines were C Products 10-rounders; pistol is equipped with a bullet button. After thus familiarizing myself with the gun, I proceeded to shoot at fresh targets in my normal fashion, rapid-fire (as fast as I can fire then re-aquire the target; about 1 round per second). 25 yards rapid-fire, standing offhand, unsupported: 
50 yards rapid-fire, standing offhand, unsupported: 
100 yards rapid fire, shooting with my elbows on the bench: 
Prepare for heretical statement Heretical statement: Since a civilian can excpect over 90% of engagements to be at or below 100 yards, an AR pistol (or SBR) is all you need. more Heresey: I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:52:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
more Heresey: I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. I'm not saying that you would definitely die, but most gunfights don't permit one to calmly fire when you feel ready from a fixed position at a stationary target that's not returning fire in broad daylight and without cover or concealment getting in the way. 10 rounds could very well be insufficient, and if so, limited capacity magazines that are intentionally difficult to change are a very severe handicap indeed. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:55:56 PM EDT
[#2]
I saw a cool bullet button that had a hex screw that can be turned out far enough to push it with your finger rather than inserting a bullet tip. Sounds like a great SHTF option as long as no one catches you with it turned out...................
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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:56:43 PM EDT
[#3]
10 round mags in engagements at/under 100m? Yeah, no thanks.
Also, your groups are going to open up a wee bit when people are shooting back at you. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:57:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Heretical statement: Since a civilian can excpect over 90% of engagements to be at or below 100 yards, an AR pistol (or SBR) is all you need. more Heresey: I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. My 10/22 is pretty accurate out to 100 yards and has 25(OMG) round magazines. That doesn't mean there isn't anything FAR FAR FAR FAR better in 95% of situations. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 6:58:21 PM EDT
[#5]
dont forget about the pucker factor.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:07:22 PM EDT
[#6]
We could go on for days about "what if" situations... In your house or being robbed it's gonna happen within 10 ft. I'm sure you won't be carrying a SBR under a trench coat just hangin out on a Sunday afternoon. I'm guessing the point of this thread is to gather opinions... Unless Libya comes to the states... I'm not grabbing my AR as my self defense weapon. It's gonna be a .45 or a .40 or a shotgun.
Hmmmmmm... What would be a realistic situation anyway other than self defense close range? Of course there are the extremes, i.e. Columbine and situations as such but if there happened to be a gunfight in our neighborhood how would we know who the good guys and bad guys are unless LE is doing some shooting? Sorry for the randomness... Lol And obviously I'm not talkin about Military situations... Whole diff. world |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:08:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Edit
 sorry
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:11:09 PM EDT
[#8]
I love these threads.
Generations of law enforcement officers have willingly entered life-or-death situations with six-shot or even (gasp) five-shot revolvers. For the last century,the standard home defense weapon in this country (and the go-to SHTF weapon for these same law enforcement officers) has been a five- or eight-shot pump-action shotgun. Oh yeah, and we outfitted our boys in World War II - from the Aleutian Islands to Sicily to Normandy to Tarawa to Iwo Jima and Berlin - with the rifle George S. Patton Jr. called "the greatest battle implement ever devised by man" - the M1 Garand - which holds eight rounds. And on these same mens hips was the most famous and widely-used combat handgun in modern U.S. history - the one still considered by many to be the finest fighting handgun ever made - the 1911, which holds a seven-round magazine. Yet, despite all this, the mere notion that someone could defend themselves with an AR-15 holding a mere ten rounds evokes nothing but derision. [ARFCOM guy] Move to a free state, loser! [/ARFCOM guy] 
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:15:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I love these threads. Generations of law enforcement officers have willingly entered life-or-death situations with six-shot or even (gasp) five-shot revolvers. For the last century,the standard home defense weapon in this country (and the go-to SHTF weapon for these same law enforcement officers) has been a five- or eight-shot pump-action shotgun. Oh yeah, and we outfitted our boys in World War II - from the Aleutian Islands to Sicily to Normandy to Tarawa to Iwo Jima and Berlin - with the rifle George S. Patton Jr. called "the greatest battle implement ever devised by man" - the M1 Garand - which holds eight rounds. And on these same mens hips was the most famous and widely-used combat handgun in modern U.S. history - the one still considered by many to be the finest fighting handgun ever made - the 1911, which holds a seven-round magazine. Yet, despite all this, the mere notion that someone could defend themselves with an AR-15 holding a mere ten rounds evokes nothing but derision. [ARFCOM guy] Move to a free state, loser! [/ARFCOM guy] I give you a 9/10 on the herp-derp scale. It's 2011, didn't get the memo? We don't wear sandals anymore and the bad guys don't use slingshots anymore. 
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:19:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I give you a 9/10 on the herp-derp scale. It's 2011, didn't get the memo? We don't wear sandals anymore and the bad guys don't use slingshots anymore. There's also a bit of a difference between 30-06 and 5.56... |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:20:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Cool, we'll use VERY outdated scenario's to prove that there's reasons to use the wrong equipment for the job.I love these threads. Generations of law enforcement officers have willingly entered life-or-death situations with six-shot or even (gasp) five-shot revolvers. For the last century,the standard home defense weapon in this country (and the go-to SHTF weapon for these same law enforcement officers) has been a five- or eight-shot pump-action shotgun. Oh yeah, and we outfitted our boys in World War II - from the Aleutian Islands to Sicily to Normandy to Tarawa to Iwo Jima and Berlin - with the rifle George S. Patton Jr. called "the greatest battle implement ever devised by man" - the M1 Garand - which holds eight rounds. And on these same mens hips was the most famous and widely-used combat handgun in modern U.S. history - the one still considered by many to be the finest fighting handgun ever made - the 1911, which holds a seven-round magazine. Yet, despite all this, the mere notion that someone could defend themselves with an AR-15 holding a mere ten rounds evokes nothing but derision. [ARFCOM guy] Move to a free state, loser! [/ARFCOM guy] |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:20:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I love these threads. Generations of law enforcement officers have willingly entered life-or-death situations with six-shot or even (gasp) five-shot revolvers. For the last century,the standard home defense weapon in this country (and the go-to SHTF weapon for these same law enforcement officers) has been a five- or eight-shot pump-action shotgun. Oh yeah, and we outfitted our boys in World War II - from the Aleutian Islands to Sicily to Normandy to Tarawa to Iwo Jima and Berlin - with the rifle George S. Patton Jr. called "the greatest battle implement ever devised by man" - the M1 Garand - which holds eight rounds. And on these same mens hips was the most famous and widely-used combat handgun in modern U.S. history - the one still considered by many to be the finest fighting handgun ever made - the 1911, which holds a seven-round magazine. Yet, despite all this, the mere notion that someone could defend themselves with an AR-15 holding a mere ten rounds evokes nothing but derision. [ARFCOM guy] Move to a free state, loser! [/ARFCOM guy] Those guys in world war two had other guys next to them with garands, BARs, and thompsons. If someone breaks into your house, assuming you have time to get to a weapon, you're going to have boxer shorts, your gun and what ever is on it, and that's it. Tell my why someone would prefer* an 11lb rifle that kicks quite a bit, holds 8 rounds, lacks optics and lighting - to defend their lives* and the lives of their family - when a lighter, easier to shoot, weapon with lesser recoil and much better capacity is available? Feel good "old days are better" statements are no substitute for good preparation. While a gun like a garand or 6 gun still works, you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think that better choices aren't available. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:20:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Your claim is not heretical.
It's just silly.  |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:26:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Observation #1 is legit.  Observation #2 is worthy of a pox. 
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:31:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Big difference between shooting perfectly still paper and people, chief.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:33:08 PM EDT
[#16]
that barrel looks like 11.5 not 10.5
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:38:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Well I just decided that I'm gonna be ordering a tank online tomorrow...
"Winning"
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:40:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
that barrel looks like 11.5 not 10.5 I agree |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:42:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Those guys in world war two had other guys next to them with garands, BARs, and thompsons. If someone breaks into your house, assuming you have time to get to a weapon, you're going to have boxer shorts, your gun and what ever is on it, and that's it. Tell my why someone would prefer* an 11lb rifle that kicks quite a bit, holds 8 rounds, lacks optics and lighting - to defend their lives* and the lives of their family - when a lighter, easier to shoot, weapon with lesser recoil and much better capacity is available? Feel good "old days are better" statements are no substitute for good preparation. While a gun like a garand or 6 gun still works, you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think that better choices aren't available. Ummmm...I think you're missing the point...big-time. I'm hardly suggesting that the OP would be better equipped with a Garand for a home-defense weapon. I amsuggesting, however, that generations of LEOs and U.S. armed forces personnel have defended themselves and this country with weapons that held fewer than ten rounds, and to suggest that an otherwise properly-outfitted AR with a ten-round magazine wouldn't be a fine home defense weapon is ludicrous. Would that same AR with a thirty-round magazine be preferable? Of course. But if that thirty-round magazine isn't available, I'm hardly going to feel underarmed with that California-legal AR in my hands. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:42:48 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: I love these threads. Generations of law enforcement officers have willingly entered life-or-death situations with six-shot or even (gasp) five-shot revolvers. And the criminals had the same amount of shots. For the last century,the standard home defense weapon in this country (and the go-to SHTF weapon for these same law enforcement officers) has been a five- or eight-shot pump-action shotgun. Oh yeah, and we outfitted our boys in World War II - from the Aleutian Islands to Sicily to Normandy to Tarawa to Iwo Jima and Berlin - with the rifle George S. Patton Jr. called "the greatest battle implement ever devised by man" - the M1 Garand Which was comparable to what the enemy had unlike now.- which holds eight rounds. And on these same mens hips was the most famous and widely-used combat handgun in modern U.S. history - the one still considered by many to be the finest fighting handgun ever made - the 1911, which holds a seven-round magazine. Yet, despite all this, the mere notion that someone could defend themselves with an AR-15 holding a mere ten round while the criminals have ak's and high capacity handguns  evokes nothing but derision. [ARFCOM guy] Move to a free state, loser! [/ARFCOM guy] |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 7:56:36 PM EDT
[#21]
OK, one last post in this thread.
If I told you guys I had a five-shot Remington 870 stoked w/ 00 buck under the bed, not a single person would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Likewise, if I told you guys I had a 1911 in the nightstand with 7+1 jacketed hollowpoints, not a single person would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Again, if I told you guys I had a .357 magnum under my pillow with six 125-grain hollowpoints in the cylinder, no one here would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Yet, while these are all on the 'approved' home defense list, somehow an AR-15 with 10+1 rounds is considered barely better for home defense around here than a kitchen knife. Why is that? |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:01:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia by saying 10 rounds will be enough. Maybe you'll convince yourself.
I really wouldn't want to live there. It's beautiful and all, but I couldn't deal with my freedom being shit on. 30 is always greater than 10. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:13:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia etc, I've got pre-bans. I've got hi-cap mags. that is all besides the point. The point being that an AR pistol (and yes the one in the OP is a 10.5") is fully capable for over 90% of all needs. Also, that a 10 round mag capacity is not catastrophically deficient. Also also that the bullet button is not a serious handicap. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:19:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
OK, one last post in this thread. If I told you guys I had a five-shot Remington 870 stoked w/ 00 buck under the bed, not a single person would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Likewise, if I told you guys I had a 1911 in the nightstand with 7+1 jacketed hollowpoints, not a single person would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Again, if I told you guys I had a .357 magnum under my pillow with six 125-grain hollowpoints in the cylinder, no one here would say I was sorely lacking in home-defense weaponry. Yet, while these are all on the 'approved' home defense list, somehow an AR-15 with 10+1 rounds is considered barely better for home defense around here than a kitchen knife. Why is that? I think lots of people would say you were severely lacking in home defense weaponry... 
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:31:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. I can understand feeling no "need" from higher capacity mags (not that I agree with it). But a bullet-button? If you have a malfunction that requires a mag change, you're pretty much fucked if you want to rectify it quickly and smoothly. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:40:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia etc, I've got pre-bans. I've got hi-cap mags. that is all besides the point. The point being that an AR pistol (and yes the one in the OP is a 10.5") is fully capable for over 90% of all needs. Also, that a 10 round mag capacity is not catastrophically deficient. Also also that the bullet button is not a serious handicap. Got a measuring tape? I have a CA pmag "rebuild kit"
that says your barrel is 11.5", not 10.5" as you just erroneously stated for the second time. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:46:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Heretical statement = AR pistols are ugly and stupid.
Your statement = Meh ETA - Wait WTF is this "bullet button" shit??!?!?
HOLY CRAP I'm so glad I don't live in California. PS, I live in Florida so you can kiss my ass with your 70 degree weather, plastic tits and imported palm trees...we gots that shit too...and hot latinas...not chulas...hot ass south american and cuban mamis...and fuck the pacific ocean...that shit is fucking cold and full of sharks!!!!
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Posted: 3/13/2011 8:53:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Thread not going as planned... Or perhaps it is.
I'm just glad I moved to The United States of America from that wretched state before my mind started trying to justify the moronic laws there. Obviously too late for you guys, sorry. Seriously. I'd loan you one of my beta c-mags so you could understand, but I'm too busy enjoying them out here .
Free America FTW>Neutered California FTL |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:03:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia etc, I've got pre-bans. I've got hi-cap mags. that is all besides the point. The point being that an AR pistol (and yes the one in the OP is a 10.5") is fully capable for over 90% of all needs. Also, that a 10 round mag capacity is not catastrophically deficient. Also also that the bullet button is not a serious handicap. Thanks Captain Magban, but that's bullshit. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:07:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Mmmm, SBRs.
Just don't forget to never put a VFG on your AR pistol.  |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:31:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. I can understand feeling no "need" from higher capacity mags (not that I agree with it). But a bullet-button? If you have a malfunction that requires a mag change, you're pretty much fucked if you want to rectify it quickly and smoothly. Have you ever done a mag change with a bullet button equipped rifle? With a little practice and the "tool" readily in hand it's really not much different then without a bullet. A lanyard around your wrist with a round attached to it works pretty well. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:37:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would not feel handicapped using 10 round mags in a bullet-button configured AR pistol in an emergency. I can understand feeling no "need" from higher capacity mags (not that I agree with it). But a bullet-button? If you have a malfunction that requires a mag change, you're pretty much fucked if you want to rectify it quickly and smoothly. Have you ever done a mag change with a bullet button equipped rifle? With a little practice and the "tool" readily in hand it's really not much different then without a bullet. A lanyard around your wrist with a round attached to it works pretty well. I'd be super gluing a tip/tool to operate the bullet button on to the middle finger of a glove on my shooting hand. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:39:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Geeze... When is the last time you saw headlines "major gunfight breaks out between intruder and homeowner. Lasts hours..." fuck me sideways, never.
Sorry to burst your bubble... to all the California bashing, I got high cap. mags where I live... Sorry that a gunfight isnt gonna last longer than it takes to do your sister... If you know anything about a gunfight two bullets of whatever to the chest, it isn't going well for you. Only an idiot is gonna hold down full auto on an intruder thinking every bullet is gonna be on target. I'm sure any gun will do... a couple .223 rounds, shotgun, .40... It's not a fucking Hollywood shootout everytime someone needs to use a gun ... If you can't hit a target with a couple of rounds, you suck and need to go to the range more. BTW I see what your sayin OP and I agree to a certain extent only cause I have a different caliber for HD. Are you gonna run around in your house or outside like a damn video game call of duty looking for the intruder? My god some of you just said yes... Element of surprise you're gonna wait for the intruder/enemy and put em down. I would like to think everyone here has a purpose for owning a gun... No disrespect to LE and milt... But some have a distorted view of this world, thinking that the rabbit is gonna hop outta the bushes with a cigar and an Uzi and rob em blind... It's a privledge to own a gun not a right in my world ... That means some of the yahoos here probably shouldn't have one in the first place... I could rant for days... Sorry Just my .02 ... lol
Edit. My point exactly why some shouldn't have guns. i.e. Churrasco's last post |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:42:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Can you put a longer buffer tube on your pistol and fire it from your shoulder and still be legal.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:43:28 PM EDT
[#35]
I have never once understood the logic of the "10 rounds is plenty" argument. Shit changes pretty drastically between shooting at a harmless piece of paper and another moving Human being trying to shoot and kill you. I have never said "Damn I have to many fucking bullets in my magazine, less would be more appropriate." I want the most ammo in the weapon that weight and maneuverability considerations will allow to allow me to put as much lead down range as fast as possible with as few reloads as possible.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:46:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Geeze... When is the last time you saw headlines "major gunfight breaks out between intruder and homeowner. Lasts hours..." fuck me sideways, never. Sorry to burst your bubble... to all the California bashing, I got high cap. mags where I live... Sorry that a gunfight isnt gonna last longer than it takes to do your sister... If you know anything about a gunfight two bullets of whatever to the chest, it isn't going well for you. Only an idiot is gonna hold down full auto on an intruder thinking every bullet is gonna be on target. I'm sure any gun will do... a couple .223 rounds, shotgun, .40... It's not a fucking Hollywood shootout everytime someone needs to use a gun ... If you can't hit a target with a couple of rounds, you suck and need to go to the range more. BTW I see what your sayin OP and I agree to a certain extent only cause I have a different caliber for HD. Are you gonna run around in your house or outside like a damn video game call of duty looking for the intruder? My god some of you just said yes... Element of surprise you're gonna wait for the intruder/enemy and put em down. I would like to think everyone here has a purpose for owning a gun... No disrespect to LE and milt... But some have a distorted view of this world, thinking that the rabbit is gonna hop outta the bushes with a cigar and an Uzi and rob em blind... It's a privledge to own a gun not a right in my world ... That means some of the yahoos here probably shouldn't have one in the first place... I could rant for days... Sorry Just my .02 ... lol
Edit. My point exactly why some shouldn't have guns. i.e. Churrasco's last post The "what the fuck" value is exceedingly great in this post. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:47:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: It's a privledge to own a gun not a right in my world ... That means some of the yahoos here probably shouldn't have one in the first place... I could rant for days... Sorry Just my .02 ... lolPlease tell me your joking? If not, you need a civics lesson. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:48:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Quoted: It's a privledge to own a gun not a right in my world ... That means some of the yahoos here probably shouldn't have one in the first place... I could rant for days... Sorry Just my .02 ... lolPlease tell me your joking? If not, you need a civics lesson. Fucking Californians, how do they work?  |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:58:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Oh so you think every dumbass, just cause they were born here deserves to have a gun? Speaking about extremes kid, figure it out
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Posted: 3/13/2011 9:59:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Oh so you think every dumbass, just cause they were born here deserves to have a gun? Speaking about extremes kid, figure it out You're going to get rapped. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:00:32 PM EDT
[#41]
I need to be able to "engage" coyotes at ranges up to 400 yards. I got a 20".
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:01:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Limited capacity is fine, I carry a 1911 with spare mags and I'm not worried about it.
But sometimes you see videos that make you rethink things. Things turned out OK in this video, but if they hadn't the home owner would have been FUCKED.  |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:04:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Oh so you think every dumbass, just cause they were born here deserves to have a gun? Speaking about extremes kid, figure it out Well, a lot of us think that everyone, regardless of where they were born, have a right to the means of adequate self protection... which usually means GUN(s). Surely a thread will pop up soon enough, and you'll get the opportunity to figure that out.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:06:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia etc, I've got pre-bans. I've got hi-cap mags. that is all besides the point. The point being that an AR pistol (and yes the one in the OP is a 10.5") is fully capable for over 90% of all needs. Also, that a 10 round mag capacity is not catastrophically deficient. Also also that the bullet button is not a serious handicap. Got a measuring tape? I have a CA pmag "rebuild kit" that says your barrel is 11.5", not 10.5" as you just erroneously stated for the second time.Not calling the OP naive or anything but I am going to have to agree that is certainly a 11.5 This is a 10.5  and this is a 11.5  Definitely a 11.5 |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:10:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Wow you missed the point... If you're not smart enough to figure it out, there's no need for me to explain it to you guy.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:12:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Oh shit, we got another big city thinker... Oh so you think every dumbass, just cause they were born here deserves to have a gun? Speaking about extremes kid, figure it out |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:13:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I would agree it's capable of 90% of all needs as long as 75% of those needs are within the 55% of needs that don't require 100% of the benefit that a stocked rifle gives.Quoted: Keep making yourself feel better that you live in Commiefornia etc, I've got pre-bans. I've got hi-cap mags. that is all besides the point. The point being that an AR pistol (and yes the one in the OP is a 10.5") is fully capable for over 90% of all needs. Also, that a 10 round mag capacity is not catastrophically deficient. Also also that the bullet button is not a serious handicap. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:13:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Wow you missed the point... If you're not smart enough to figure it out, there's no need for me to explain it to you guy. Using the "Quote" feature makes it easier for the rest of us. Then we know who you're talking to. If I missed a point, it's because you didn't make a point, at least not sufficiently. I was simply explaining that yes - people here do believe that.
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:15:05 PM EDT
[#49]
I would be happy with 10rds of 5.56 over any common pistol cartridge.. It is a bit tough to conceal for EDC though
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Posted: 3/13/2011 10:18:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Oh so you think every dumbass, just cause they were born here deserves to have a gun? Speaking about extremes kid, figure it out Just because you think I'm a dumbass doesn't mean you have the right to decide if i "deserve" to have the means to defend my life...that is a right given to me by GOD...I might "deserve" to have my rights taken away if I prove by my actions that I cannot be trusted with a deadly weapon...this is a common sense...but otherwise, you cannot arbitrarily state that someone's views with which you don't agree are a basis for stripping them of their GOD given right to life...if that were so then anyone could have their rights stripped by the majority who disagreed with them...as such gays, jews, mormons, truthers and/or any number of people with differing opinions from your own would in essence become an underprivileged class by fiat. |
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