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Posted: 8/16/2017 10:09:41 AM EST
This happened at mass yesterday, the Feast of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary (a holy day of obligation for Catholics).

A respected elder member of the parish held some compassion for a female acquaintance (supposed Catholic, but not a member of this parish) of his for some time. Long story short, some muscle from the parish was recruited to help move her out of her apartment and we (the parish) somehow ended up with much her and her recently late father's personal belongings. Only a few had actually met this woman, until last night.

First flag: This lady, looking rather unkempt, squirming during mass, talking out loud, can't sit still, with a florescent yellow ball cap for a head cover. Needless to say, she stood out like a sore thumb. I blew all that off, because that's what we do as Christians.

Second flag: She spent an inordinate amount of time in the confessional, causing the mass to start late. This happens on other days for the normal folk as well, so it was not a huge deal, except that this was a 7pm mass start time. So starting late at that hour is generally frowned upon.

Third flag: She gets up to leave the pew at some point before the homily. She obviously went to the vestibule, because I didn't see her again until communion. Again, not uncommon, not a big deal.

She moseyed her way up to the communion rail, last in line. She kneels inline with the others, as expected. All is well so far.

The incident: When the priest came to her, before receiving, she signed herself and said something inaudible to me. When the priest brought the Blessed Sacrament close to her mouth, her tongue twisted up and she physically retracted her body (in an involuntary way) making it difficult for the priest to place the host on her tongue. Twice. The priest, now suspicious of her state, retracted the Blessed Sacrament and the lady stood up. There was a brief and inaudible exchange of words, to which was followed by the priest, "Go!" Three times. She sheepishly returned to the vestibule in full sight of the entire congregation, arms extended palms out (in an obviously meager attempt to say "I have just been persecuted"). The place was as silent as during the consecration.

It was later related that she said the words, "So mote it be." The priest immediately recognized the origin of these words and justly denied her communion. These words are used during Free Mason ceremonies and is an Old English form of saying, "So that it may be" or Amen, and are known to be used in witchcraft spells by neopagans today. It communicates a specific intent of personal will to submit to outside divine forces, but not necessarily God.

It seems it is true, that the TLM is a magnet for the demonic. In one sense, that is refreshing. In another, it is always shocking.

God Bless
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:16:45 AM EST
I believe that witchcraft is real. Demons are real. What will you do now? Serious question. Will the Priest try to exorcise the demon? I am only familiar with that from books and movies which I do not rely on for the truth.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 10:26:40 AM EST
OST.
Link Posted: 8/16/2017 3:02:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KD5TXX:
I believe that witchcraft is real. Demons are real. What will you do now? Serious question. Will the Priest try to exorcise the demon? I am only familiar with that from books and movies which I do not rely on for the truth.
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I am not sure what will happen. Because she has friends in the parish, and the parish is in possession of her personal items, I imagine she will be back.

She basically bequeathed all of her junk to us because she didn't want to deal with it. Some compassion was misplaced (imho) and we ended up with it.

A regular priest can only do minor exorcisms, I think. Anything major and you have to bring in a designated exorcist. I'm not yet convinced, however, that we have reached that point. Then again, I am not a priest either.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 3:03:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2017 3:04:12 PM EST by skid2041]
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Originally Posted By SaloSV:
I am not sure what will happen. Because she has friends in the parish, and the parish is in possession of her personal items, I imagine she will be back.

She basically bequeathed all of her junk to us because she didn't want to deal with it. Some compassion was misplaced (imho) and we ended up with it.

A regular priest can only do minor exorcisms, I think. Anything major and you have to bring in a designated exorcist. I'm not yet convinced, however, that we have reached that point. Then again, I am not a priest either.
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Originally Posted By SaloSV:
Originally Posted By KD5TXX:
I believe that witchcraft is real. Demons are real. What will you do now? Serious question. Will the Priest try to exorcise the demon? I am only familiar with that from books and movies which I do not rely on for the truth.
I am not sure what will happen. Because she has friends in the parish, and the parish is in possession of her personal items, I imagine she will be back.

She basically bequeathed all of her junk to us because she didn't want to deal with it. Some compassion was misplaced (imho) and we ended up with it.

A regular priest can only do minor exorcisms, I think. Anything major and you have to bring in a designated exorcist. I'm not yet convinced, however, that we have reached that point. Then again, I am not a priest either.
I am pretty sure all priests can perform Exorcisms. But usually the Dioceses has a designated one. But, Fr Gabriel Amorth had pushed with the help of St. Pope JPII and Pope Benedict to build up the forces.

I purchased and read the book on the Exorcism Rite. I can not recall the title, but it was removed from sales and the priest sequestered. While I read it many spiritual warfare incidents occurred with my family and I.

An Article from Fr Amorth

(some types of possession)

1. External physical pain caused by Satan. We know of this from many lives of the saints. We know that Saint Paul of the Cross, the Curé of Ars, Padre Pio, and many others were beaten, flogged, and pummeled by demons. This external form of persecution does riot affect the soul; therefore with this type there has never been the need for an exorcism, only for prayers. Here I will dwell only on the other types of actions that directly affect exorcists.

2. Demonic possession. This occurs when Satan takes full possession of the body (not the soul); he speaks and acts without the knowledge or consent of the victim, who therefore is morally blameless. It is the gravest and most spectacular form of demonic afflictions, and it attracts the attention of producers of movies such as The Exorcist. According to the Ritual for exorcisms, some of the signs of possession include: speaking in tongues, extraordinary strength, and revealing the unknown. The man of Gerasa is a clear Gospel example of possession. To fix a set "model" for demonic possession would be a serious mistake; the affliction runs the gamut of symptoms and severity. For instance, I have exercised two totally possessed persons who remained perfectly still and silent during the exorcism. I could cite many other examples and as many different symptoms.

3. Diabolical oppression. Symptoms vary from a very serious to a mild illness. There is no possession, loss of consciousness, or involuntary action and word. The Bible gives us many examples of oppression; one of them is job, He was not possessed, but he lost his children, his goods, and his health. The bent woman and the deaf and dumb man who were cured by Jesus were not subject to total possession, but there was a demonic presence that caused physical discomfort. Saint Paul was most certainly not possessed by a demon, but he had a demonic oppression that caused an evil affliction: "And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me" (2 Cor 12:7). There is no doubting the evil origin of the affliction.

While possessions are still relatively rare today, we exorcists run into a great number of people who have been struck by the devil in their health, jobs, or relationships. We must make it clear that to diagnose and heal an oppression-related illness is not any easier than to diagnose and cure a person afflicted by full possession. The degree of gravity may be different, but the difficulty of the diagnosis and the amount of time involved in healing are the same.

4. Diabolic obsession. Symptoms include sudden attacks, at times ongoing, of obsessive thoughts, sometimes even rationally absurd, but of such nature that the victim is unable to free himself Therefore the obsessed person lives in a perpetual state of prostration, desperation, and attempts at suicide. Almost always obsession influences dreams. Some people will say that this is evidence of mental illness, requiring the services of a psychiatrist or a psychologist. The same could be said of all other forms of demonic phenomena. Some symptoms, however, are so inconsistent with known illnesses that they point with certainty to their evil origins. Only an expert and well-trained eye can identify the crucial differences.

5. Diabolic infestation. Infestations affect houses, things, or animals. This book will only mention the topic. I merely want to state that I will never use this term when I refer to persons. I will always talk about possession, oppression, and obsession.

6. Diabolical subjugation, or dependence. People fall into this form of evil when they voluntarily submit to Satan. The two most common forms of dependence are the blood pact with the devil and the consecration to Satan.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 5:30:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/18/2017 5:33:15 PM EST by SaloSV]
Well, they may be capable of it, but they won't if they aren't trained on it. Yes, by law every diocese must have a designated exorcist.

I attended a conference on spiritual warfare by a particular priest out of Tulsa (I won't say his name here), and believe me, I don't want to have anything to do with any of it. I even stopped a particular prayer devotion, and like you state, others have too because they ended up being attacked in one way or another. That kind of thing doesn't generally happen to me, and it was taking up too much of my time, so I just stopped. I don't need that kind of attention.

In my opinion, it is not very healthy for lay people, or clerics for that matter, to dwell on the subject of possession.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 6:17:08 PM EST
I agree, don't dwell on it. But, you need to be prepared. This is spiritual war going on. My father always said, " if I am not being attacked. I might not be doing something right." The evil one doesn't care for the ones he already has control over.

Fr. Amorth makes many points that demons can not stand even the Name of Jesus, tge Virgin Mary or St Michael. You, as a Christian, can bind also. Here is a prayer I say daily:

PRAYERS FROM THE BOOK
"FREEDOM THROUGH DELIVERANCE" by Fr. Carl Schmidt, C.SS. R.



PRAYER TO TAKE AUTHORITY.....
In the Name of Jesus, I take authority and I bind all powers and forces in the air, in the ground, in the water, in the underground, in the netherworld, in nature and in fire.  You are the Lord over the entire universe and I give you the Glory for your creation.  In your Name I bind all demonic forces that have come agains us and our families and I seal all of us in the protection of your Precious Blood that was shed for us on the Cross.

Mary, our Mother, we seek your protection and intercession with the Sacred Heart of Jesus for us and our families and surround us with your mantle of love to discourage the enemy.

St. Michael and our guardian Angels come defend us and our families in battle against all the evil ones that roam the earth.

In the Name of Jesus  I bind and command all the powers and forces of evil to depart right now away from us, our homes and our lands.  And we thank you Lord Jesus for you are a faithful and compassionate God. Amen (pray the Hail Mary)

(It is recommended that this prayer be said in the morning and if deemed necessary, once in the evening--especially for those who experience restless nights.  When setting out on a trip, or when staying overnight in a motel or hotel.  This prayer is a good prayer for homes, a room, property, people...by teachers, before board meetings, in the office, hospital & court rooms. Prayed in a car before entering a house or before entering into discussions or ministries)
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 6:42:18 PM EST
Proof of witchcraft? A person acts like a drugged junkie. Is in your words "supposedly catholic", can't sit still, doesn't dress appropriately for church, etc. The supposed catholic doesn't know what to say at communion, and is treated like satan himself. The woman needs compassion and rehab, not burnt at the stake or drowned. People that are addicted and going through withdrawl aren't possessed, witches, devil worshippers. They do need help. Get to know her. Try to help her. If she is an addict, it might not even be her fault. I have seen numerous people who have had medical problems that got prescribed pain medication and became addicted before anyone even knew. They only realized as the doctor started weaning them off a month or so after surgery.
Link Posted: 8/18/2017 7:35:07 PM EST
Demons are very real.

Have you ever heard of Mirin Dajo?
Link Posted: 8/19/2017 11:38:27 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SaloSV:

I attended a conference on spiritual warfare by a particular priest out of Tulsa (I won't say his name here)...
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Pretty sure I know who you're talking about. Why won't you say his name? People might enjoy his videos.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:13:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By abnk:


Pretty sure I know who you're talking about. Why won't you say his name? People might enjoy his videos.
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There are some extenuating circumstances in his environment which directly impacted his group that he has specifically requested folks not talk about. Of course, I realize that is different that posting a video, but the less attention brought to him the better for now.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:24:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Coble9:
Proof of witchcraft? A person acts like a drugged junkie. Is in your words "supposedly catholic", can't sit still, doesn't dress appropriately for church, etc. The supposed catholic doesn't know what to say at communion, and is treated like satan himself. The woman needs compassion and rehab, not burnt at the stake or drowned. People that are addicted and going through withdrawl aren't possessed, witches, devil worshippers. They do need help. Get to know her. Try to help her. If she is an addict, it might not even be her fault. I have seen numerous people who have had medical problems that got prescribed pain medication and became addicted before anyone even knew. They only realized as the doctor started weaning them off a month or so after surgery.
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Wouldn't have given it another thought without the words that came out of her mouth, at the moment of holy communion.

Um, didn't know? She told all of her "friends" she was Catholic. Clearly a case of a misinterpreted impression of "universal church." I have some old friends who are now Anglican who do the same thing. People love to claim an attachment to Catholicism, but don't want to do what one has to do to live the faith. Sort of the "gangster sh*t" adage.

I have no doubt, however, that a drug addiction problem is at play in this case. In fact, I know it to be true. That is only part of the problem though.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 7:34:18 AM EST
Curious.

1) What type of Catholic church is this that it still has a communion rail?
2) Did the Church confirm that she really is a Catholic? Did they get a copy of her Baptism, Communion, Confirmation records?
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 9:06:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Balista:
Curious.

1) What type of Catholic church is this that it still has a communion rail?
2) Did the Church confirm that she really is a Catholic? Did they get a copy of her Baptism, Communion, Confirmation records?
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i have only been requested for my children's records. I have never been asked for mine. They probably took her word for it. I have still seen communion rails at old missions. So, they are still around.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 1:20:23 PM EST
The RCC doesn't use communion rails? Anglicans use them, and the RCC where I attended a funeral a few years ago in Jackson MS still had them. How do the priest distribute the elements? To the people in the pews?
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 6:51:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KD5TXX:
The RCC doesn't use communion rails? Anglicans use them, and the RCC where I attended a funeral a few years ago in Jackson MS still had them. How do the priest distribute the elements? To the people in the pews?
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Here is how it works at my parish: Priests and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are positioned in different locations around the church. People line up to receive from the minister nearest their pew.
Link Posted: 8/20/2017 10:25:23 PM EST
The parish is diocesan established under the pastoral care of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter. We have been using portable communion rails for a number of years, but we just recently moved into our own place, so we will be installing permanent ones. The removal of communion rails was the result of abuse regarding language in Vatican II documents, and I think had to do with the specific issue of easier facilitation of children's access to the sanctuary.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 4:03:27 PM EST
Speaking of the TLM attracting the demonic, I was recently looking at my TLM parish' twitter feed and its followers. One follower was following hundreds of feeds, about 5% were related to traditional Catholicism, and the rest were hardcore gay porn feeds. Pray for that tormented soul.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:13:37 AM EST
An Ave and Memorarae for that individual.

Not to derail the thread, but this may very well be the reason why I go through with pulling our parish's social media presence. I imagine that if you spoke to that parish pastor privately, and advised him of the obviously public situation with that individual, he would take a recommendation of advising that person to take down his as well. I personally would be very inclined to attempt such an intervention, depending on how well I knew the pastor applied fortitude in the face of such evil.

My .02
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:25:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1026:
Here is how it works at my parish: Priests and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are positioned in different locations around the church. People line up to receive from the minister nearest their pew.
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Originally Posted By 1026:
Originally Posted By KD5TXX:
The RCC doesn't use communion rails? Anglicans use them, and the RCC where I attended a funeral a few years ago in Jackson MS still had them. How do the priest distribute the elements? To the people in the pews?
Here is how it works at my parish: Priests and Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion are positioned in different locations around the church. People line up to receive from the minister nearest their pew.
EF Mass. You go up and kneel in a line, priest walks down the line. Then you get up and the next set kneels down.

Also, some new churches that are being built or renovated (to not look like '70s garbage) are getting rails.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 7:16:49 AM EST
"Resurrecting" this thread:

I just read it. Interesting.
As to the druggie post , it's possible she has drug dependency issues as part of her possession/oppression.
Pharmacopoeia or sorcery is the prevalent pathway for this sort of thing. Actual ceremonial subjugation is more rare but still occurs.
I personally believe not all drug use or dependency involves witchcraft or the occult but if an individual is leaning that way or dabbling in it it's an open pathway.
The spiritual dimension is real and it stands to reason if the scriptures discussed the dangers of the occult, it is there. We become desensitized to it but it's real.
Interesting topic.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 11:09:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Coble9:
Proof of witchcraft? A person acts like a drugged junkie. Is in your words "supposedly catholic", can't sit still, doesn't dress appropriately for church, etc. The supposed catholic doesn't know what to say at communion, and is treated like satan himself. The woman needs compassion and rehab, not burnt at the stake or drowned. People that are addicted and going through withdrawl aren't possessed, witches, devil worshippers. They do need help. Get to know her. Try to help her. If she is an addict, it might not even be her fault. I have seen numerous people who have had medical problems that got prescribed pain medication and became addicted before anyone even knew. They only realized as the doctor started weaning them off a month or so after surgery.
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Exactly correct. Ignorant superstition and idol worship are birds of the same feather.
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 1:17:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2017 1:18:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2017 1:19:40 PM EST by BushBoar]
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