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Posted: 12/31/2011 3:45:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 3:59:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Pretty good read on why fuel is still high. Demand is down in the US, so instead of a glut driving down the price, refined product is sold elsewhere. The glut in natural gas will eventually go away also as soon as plants to liquify it for shipping are built and more is burned to generate electricity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/APf917509ee61344a38638e2c08bc47090.html


Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:01:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Pretty good read on why fuel is still high. Demand is down in the US, so instead of a glut driving down the price, refined product is sold elsewhere. The glut in natural gas will eventually go away also as soon as plants to liquify it for shipping are built and more is burned to generate electricity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/APf917509ee61344a38638e2c08bc47090.html


Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


+1. It is a free market.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:08:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:09:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.



Refinery capacity still matters. If more refineries were producing, it would increase worldwide supply, thus assisting in the lowering of the worldwide price.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:21:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 5:21:42 AM EDT
So much for "pollution be damned we need to cut down on oil from foreign sources".
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:01:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 6:14:26 AM EDT by WildApple]
Our natural supplier had a note to inform us that our gas prices were going to drop effective next month.

A person who has a natural bill of $95 will see it drop to about $75.

Got this tidbit of info a week after I bought our new electric appliances
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 6:17:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.


No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.


Link Posted: 12/31/2011 7:31:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.


No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



This is why the "drill baby drill" hysteria was such bullshit. Oil is an international commodity we are never going to get it all domestically nor should we. It is so funny to see the same people that say that manufacturing things in china is the only way to go to keep prices down American workers be damned say that we need to drill for oil in the US regardless of the consequenses to limit getting it from our enemies.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 9:59:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 10:02:07 AM EDT by Houstons_Problem]

Originally Posted By JIP:

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.


No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



This is why the "drill baby drill" hysteria was such bullshit. Oil is an international commodity we are never going to get it all domestically nor should we. It is so funny to see the same people that say that manufacturing things in china is the only way to go to keep prices down American workers be damned say that we need to drill for oil in the US regardless of the consequenses to limit getting it from our enemies.

No you just make flash observations and don't understand the difference between drilling for crude and a temporary excess capacity to refine crude.

Oil was skyrocketing and our imports were higher than ever in 2008. With the current economy, demand is down. Drill baby drill did happen, on land and in North Dakota. So production is up. Imports are down to the 40% range were they were in the 60% range. The drilling and refining means high paying jobs, but you really don't care about that.

We continue to import crude. The difference is we now have the excess capacity to refine it and export it whereas a few years ago we had to important finished products. We can refine heavy crudes and many of the oil producers can't refine enough for their own consumption. So we buy crude from Mexico, refine it and send it back.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/05/news/economy/gasoline_export/index.htm
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 11:05:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By JIP:

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.


No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



This is why the "drill baby drill" hysteria was such bullshit. Oil is an international commodity we are never going to get it all domestically nor should we. It is so funny to see the same people that say that manufacturing things in china is the only way to go to keep prices down American workers be damned say that we need to drill for oil in the US regardless of the consequenses to limit getting it from our enemies.

No you just make flash observations and don't understand the difference between drilling for crude and a temporary excess capacity to refine crude.

Oil was skyrocketing and our imports were higher than ever in 2008. With the current economy, demand is down. Drill baby drill did happen, on land and in North Dakota. So production is up. Imports are down to the 40% range were they were in the 60% range. The drilling and refining means high paying jobs, but you really don't care about that.

We continue to import crude. The difference is we now have the excess capacity to refine it and export it whereas a few years ago we had to important finished products. We can refine heavy crudes and many of the oil producers can't refine enough for their own consumption. So we buy crude from Mexico, refine it and send it back.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/05/news/economy/gasoline_export/index.htm

My point was it is too simplistic to say we need to stop getting oil from foreign sources. Oil is just like anything flexible and no matter how we want it to be we have to get it from here there and everywhere.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:40:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:19:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:
No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



That was then, this is now. We're back to burning fuel at 2000 levels. There's excess refining capacity. Conocophillips and Sunoco are thinking about shutting down three refineries on the east coast. Profit margins in refining is on the slim side.

What's gas gotta cost for them to turn a profit?

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 4:51:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/1/2012 4:27:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JIP:

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By JIP:

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:

Fuels trade on a worldwide market. Demand may be down in the US, but other places are increasing demand. In before someone calls the refiners evil...ahem...anti-American for selling it to the highest bidder.


Yeah, and it does dispel some of the things that get posted here about refinery capacity being a partial cause of high prices here. And Cushing (destination of Nymex crude) has been overflowing with crude for a few years now.


No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



This is why the "drill baby drill" hysteria was such bullshit. Oil is an international commodity we are never going to get it all domestically nor should we. It is so funny to see the same people that say that manufacturing things in china is the only way to go to keep prices down American workers be damned say that we need to drill for oil in the US regardless of the consequenses to limit getting it from our enemies.

No you just make flash observations and don't understand the difference between drilling for crude and a temporary excess capacity to refine crude.

Oil was skyrocketing and our imports were higher than ever in 2008. With the current economy, demand is down. Drill baby drill did happen, on land and in North Dakota. So production is up. Imports are down to the 40% range were they were in the 60% range. The drilling and refining means high paying jobs, but you really don't care about that.

We continue to import crude. The difference is we now have the excess capacity to refine it and export it whereas a few years ago we had to important finished products. We can refine heavy crudes and many of the oil producers can't refine enough for their own consumption. So we buy crude from Mexico, refine it and send it back.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/05/news/economy/gasoline_export/index.htm

My point was it is too simplistic to say we need to stop getting oil from foreign sources. Oil is just like anything flexible and no matter how we want it to be we have to get it from here there and everywhere.
Which proves you never understood the need to drill. Just like when algore said it would be 10 years before ANWR oil make it to market. No shit. That's why you have to drill now.

If we import over 60% of our oil, we are very vulnerable. If we get it to less than 40%, we have more options and the price is more easily controlled.

Link Posted: 1/1/2012 4:31:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:
No it doesn't. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we couldn't refine enough gasoline from crude, so we imported gasoline that was refined elsewhere.



That was then, this is now. We're back to burning fuel at 2000 levels. There's excess refining capacity. Conocophillips and Sunoco are thinking about shutting down three refineries on the east coast. Profit margins in refining is on the slim side.
That's what I just said. Demand is so far down that we can export finished fuels like gasoline. In 2008, we had to import gasoline because we didn't have the capacity to refine enough crude to meet finished product consumption levels.

Therefore we had to pay more, thus your argument about refining capacity being not a problem was wrong.

Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:11:39 AM EDT
Surprised to read this, but it makes sense.
Link Posted: 1/5/2012 8:18:04 AM EDT
we pray to OPEC but export fuel?

the hole we stand in...


we deserve it
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