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Posted: 9/7/2005 1:03:11 PM EDT
The test group abandoned their secure area (the mall) to attempt to seek refuge on an island they hoped would not be inhabited by the reanimated dead. As we know from the footage that plan did not go very well.

However, there is no guarantee that the mall would have continued to provide a safe sanctuary.

Even if the mall had not been breached after returning from Andy's Gun Shop their supplies may not have lasted the duration of their natural lives (or until rescued) and the security of their position was not guaranteed either. As demonstrated, a single breach would render the mall all but untentable.

So should they have stayed?

What would you have done differently if you were a member of the test group?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:04:31 PM EDT
I would have stayed at the mall.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:06:11 PM EDT
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:06:31 PM EDT
I would taken one of their "armored" vehicle and loaded up as much ammo and weapons as they could take.

Then head for the island. After getting to the island. Just hang out off the dock and shoot zombies as they come out. Could not be very many on that island. After the island was secured. I would send out groups to local marinas for supplies.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:06:55 PM EDT
Mall for me as well.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:07:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:09:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I would have stayed at the mall.



+1

Without the harebrained scheme to send Chips over with the food and walkie-talkie, the poorly planned rescue attempt would not have been necessary and the breach would not have occurred.

They needed to go to case hardware, get the parts and build a potato gun, get some uniform canisters, load them with weight and test fire for range then launch sandwiches to Andy to tide him over until a thorough, effective plan for getting him, the guns and the ammo to the mall was established.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:09:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:19:15 PM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
The test group abandoned their secure area (the mall) to attempt to seek refuge on an island they hoped would not be inhabited by the reanimated dead. As we know from the footage that plan did not go very well.

However, there is no guarantee that the mall would have continued to provide a safe sanctuary.

Even if the mall had not been breached after returning from Andy's Gun Shop their supplies may not have lasted the duration of their natural lives (or until rescued) and the security of their position was not guaranteed either. As demonstrated, a single breach would render the mall all but untentable.

So should they have stayed?

What would you have done differently if you were a member of the test group?



I thought the debate was still up as if it was an actual documentary or a mockumentary.

Can Zombies run? I always suspected that a fresh one shouldbe able to until decay got to the point of hinderance.

Maybe in the original the zombies shown were past their prime and were starting to get a little ripe and thats why they were slow? Was Romero trying to calm fears by showing only the slow Zombies?

Anyway a Mall obviously was a stupid idea, though they didnt find out until later that the dead hung around their usual habitations.

I would have hightailed it to the country. I would grabbed an airboat and headed for a semi secluded area. The zombies would have a hell of a time wading through the Everglades and the gators would have taken care of them. Well that is if it happened down here.

If I were part of the test group? I would use the weaker follks like the rich guy and the father to be as bait. I would use them as a distraction for the getaway. Maybe lower them just above the crowd of zombies with a rope. Andy could brain the zombies while they were busy and see if it provides a needed break.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:10:53 PM EDT
I would have figured a way to stay in the Mall. Too much seat of the pants stuff like leaving that a-hole in charge of watching the door. There would have to be a way to get Andy back to the mall. I though about holing up at his shop, but logistics dictates that the stuff you need in his shop, ie weaps and ammo, is MUCH easier to move than everyting that keeps me at the mall.

They should have tried a diversion to get a clear path to the shop and back.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:11:40 PM EDT
I think I would've done the same thing they did, except drive slower, so that the bus doesn't tip over. But instead of getting off at the island, I would've stayed in the boat, offshore for a day or two, observing to see if there was any zombies. I would do this until I found a safe island. If I never found a safe island, pretty far fetched, then I would've just stayed on the boat and eaten fish for the remainder of my miserable life.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:11:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital



Good point. DOTD2004 is a Zack Snyder training film in the same vein as Romero training films.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:13:37 PM EDT
Knowing that I was going to the gun shop, I would have loaded supplies and taken them from the mall, to the gunshop. Then, try to figure out a plan afterwards. Tough call.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:14:59 PM EDT
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:20:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.



I don't think, realistically, that therre would be enough ammo to thin that herd sufficiently. It was at least implied that they were the last warm people in Milwaukee, or wherever they were.

Decent sized city= 700,000 people, even i fonly half are wnadering around, that 's a lot of ammo.

Plus you've got the disease to contend with, a rotting pile of 150K ex people would have to be moved or you'd get sick. The vermin/ flies would be unbelievable.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:20:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.



How effective is a .22lr for head shots over 100meters? Is it enough to hit the Medula? will it take enough head apart?

I am thinking an old Grendel .22wmr 30 shot pistol would be the ideal Zombie sidarm defence system. .22mag should pop through the head enough.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:21:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.



I don't think, realistically, that therre would be enough ammo to thin that herd sufficiently. It was at least implied that they were the last warm people in Milwaukee, or wherever they were.

Decent sized city= 700,000 people, even i fonly half are wnadering around, that 's a lot of ammo.

Plus you've got the disease to contend with, a rotting pile of 150K ex people would have to be moved or you'd get sick. The vermin/ flies would be unbelievable.



Everett WI (no such place).
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:22:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.



How effective is a .22lr for head shots over 100meters? Is it enough to hit the Medula? will it take enough head apart?

I am thinking an old Grendel .22wmr 30 shot pistol would be the ideal Zombie sidarm defence system. .22mag should pop through the head enough.



How much of each of those in the average gun store?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:26:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I would have went to the gunstore and used the .22 and surplus ammo up. When their were no more zombies left in the area I would have started collecting supplies.



How effective is a .22lr for head shots over 100meters? Is it enough to hit the Medula? will it take enough head apart?

I am thinking an old Grendel .22wmr 30 shot pistol would be the ideal Zombie sidarm defence system. .22mag should pop through the head enough.



How much of each of those in the average gun store?



ZERO

But if I could muster one up, I would probably make it my sidearm.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:26:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital



Good point. DOTD2004 is a Zack Snyder training film in the same vein as Romero training films.



Romero was listed in the credits.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:29:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital



Good point. DOTD2004 is a Zack Snyder training film in the same vein as Romero training films.



Romero was listed in the credits.



Well thats a relief. So running zombies are a real danger?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:29:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital



Good point. DOTD2004 is a Zack Snyder training film in the same vein as Romero training films.



Romero was listed in the credits.



I realize that (I've seen it enough I remember names in the credits I don't recognize as anyone from anywhere else). Snyder is alright though and he deserves credit. Shit, he's even a shooter and Romero isn't super-keen on gun ownership.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:34:15 PM EDT
I would think their is a good 15-20k rds of .22 at every walmart that carrys ammo. Its sold in 550rd bricks. Since its a bad idea to waist ammo you would simply shoot the zombies who are close to the shop using headshots. If they are past 50-100 yards just make some noise and attract a new bunch of zombies back in. Theyre stupid, we as intelligent individuals must make use of that. When enough of the zombies are eradicated from the area then you could start makeing excursions to local grocery stores or even homes in search of canned goods. Just use good leather suits (cobbled from the clothing stores in the mall) to protect against close in incidents. If one of the members of the party becomes infected then drop him. If you suspect a member of being infected, then quarantine him.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:36:28 PM EDT
I would have headed for The Winchester.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:38:35 PM EDT
First off they shoulda tried yelling or shooting before they actually docked on the island to see if any zombie's came running outa the woods. They shoulda also thought ahead to bring more gas for the friggin boat. Oh yeah & they shoulda never let the old ghey guy use a chainsaw, 3 friggin hot chicks left on the planet & the fruit-loop cuts one of em in half. Man I woulda been pissed of if I was there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:39:52 PM EDT
In the recovered tapes from Andy's Guns, shown on the deluxe edition of the DOTD2004 training video, it shows that Andy DID try to thin the herd of zombies in the area. He reported that he did not have adequate munitions in reserve to effectively thin the seemingly never-ending supply of MZB's.

What has surprised me is that the test group, with access to a hardware store and fresh gasoline tanks, didn't attempt to create an incindiary device and eliminate zombies in that fashion. (Yes, Andy tries a molotv cocktail, but he was doing so with simple grain alcohol - not diesel). It seems to me that, like any other decaying matter, the zombies would eventually begin to put off flammable fumes and be perfect for flame-based destruction.

Of course, with that you have the great possibility of setting the city on fire...

I believe that I would have tried to consolidate the equipment in the mall and the equipment in Andy's Gun Store by using the armored cars to clear a path from the mall to the Gun Store, then reinforce it using materials from inside the mall... we know there was a hardware store with timber, ect., in the mall.

Alternatively, the sewers appeared to be zombie-free. Had the test group used a less impromptu solution, they may have retained control over the sewers and accessed the rest of the city using the sewers. At the very least, this would have allowed them to perform limited resupplying.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:41:27 PM EDT
When they did the rescue at the gun-store i would have gotten an AR and filled up a ruck with ammo. Then when they got to the island they would have actually had a fucking rifle. They could have baited the motherfuckers out and shot them. Might not get every last one that way but enough that you could allow yourself the opportunity to clean up whats left. I am sure all that noise would have attracted most of them on the island depending on its size. They fucked up by getting right off the boat and onto the island without doing any reconaissance. I guess thats the type of stupid stuff people do when they are tired hungry and thirsty. It takes a great deal of discipline to operate under that kind of stress.

Their problem was they rushed right onto the island, and they didn't ever make an effort to acquire any weapons capable of hitting anything reliably passed 30-40 yards.



Other mistakes: the stupid dog rescue, the dude closing the lid on the manhole so freakin loud, probably just a fuck up, and definitely letting that dipshit andy be in charge of the door. I would have taken his boat keys at gunpoint after that stunt.

Oh, the old faggot who doesn't know how to take his fucking finger off of the throttle on the chainsaw too. That was fucked up. I used to do Construction and a guy almost tripped over a pipe and fell onto my diamond bladed-chopsaw once when I was cutting pipe. I immmediately reacted and let go of the throttle, otherwise it might have fucked up his leg pretty good. That old fuck was a fucking idiot.

I don't know why they were driving so fast at that point to begin with either, but thats just me.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:42:45 PM EDT
Look its Jay Leno!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:45:27 PM EDT
How far do gunshots travel? Not THAT far. In my area, population density is around 3,000 people per square mile. I'd say you aren't going to attract zombies much further out than 2 miles (with gunshots), so your looking at a prospective population of 12,000 to deal with in the short term. Assuming you had a fortified position and the average AR-15 ammo stock and assuming that the zombies run towards gunshots like moths to a flame, clearing an area would be more an exercise in patience than anything else.

Once you cleared an area, go to the neighborhood municipal maintenance site, get a Catepillar dozer and weld on some 1/4 steel plate over the vulnerable spots, and you are all set to go foraging.



Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:46:02 PM EDT
Why not just set the bastards on fire. Seemed like they had fuel in the garage. Could have just dumped it on them and cooked them. Probably a lot better than wasting ammo. They were all clothed so they would probably burn.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:49:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EternalVigilance:
When they did the rescue at the gun-store i would have gotten an AR and filled up a ruck with ammo. Then when they got to the island they would have actually had a fucking rifle. They could have baited the motherfuckers out and shot them. Might not get every last one that way but enough that you could allow yourself the opportunity to clean up whats left. I am sure all that noise would have attracted most of them on the island depending on its size. They fucked up by getting right off the boat and onto the island without doing any reconaissance. I guess thats the type of stupid stuff people do when they are tired hungry and thirsty. It takes a great deal of discipline to operate under that kind of stress.

Their problem was they rushed right onto the island, and they didn't ever make an effort to acquire any weapons capable of hitting anything reliably passed 30-40 yards.



Other mistakes: the stupid dog rescue, the dude closing the lid on the manhole so freakin loud, probably just a fuck up, and definitely letting that dipshit andy be in charge of the door. I would have taken his boat keys at gunpoint after that stunt.

Oh, the old faggot who doesn't know how to take his fucking finger off of the throttle on the chainsaw too. That was fucked up. I used to do Construction and a guy almost tripped over a pipe and fell onto my diamond bladed-chopsaw once when I was cutting pipe. I immmediately reacted and let go of the throttle, otherwise it might have fucked up his leg pretty good. That old fuck was a fucking idiot.

I don't know why they were driving so fast at that point to begin with either, but thats just me.



That was actually Steve.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:50:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HunterGren:
First off they shoulda tried yelling or shooting before they actually docked on the island to see if any zombie's came running outa the woods. They shoulda also thought ahead to bring more gas for the friggin boat. Oh yeah & they shoulda never let the old ghey guy use a chainsaw, 3 friggin hot chicks left on the planet & the fruit-loop cuts one of em in half. Man I woulda been pissed of if I was there.



+1 No shit.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:50:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:01:51 PM EDT by WildBoar]
Bunch of armchair zombie hunter we are.


Lets give props to our hero, Ben. who is the boss?


EArly radio broadcasts from the first documentary click here


and another


Early footage of a zombie attack. Warning, Graphic. you may pee your pants in fear.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:51:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I would have stayed at the mall.



+1

maybe got to work on making some babies...........
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:52:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Why not just set the bastards on fire. Seemed like they had fuel in the garage. Could have just dumped it on them and cooked them. Probably a lot better than wasting ammo. They were all clothed so they would probably burn.



Especially if you had some for of pit or bay you could bait large groups of zombies into. Maybe you could hang Steve over the pit as bait. Then dump large amounts of gasoline in the pit and BARBEQUE.

Repeat as necessary.

A lot quiter and faster than gunshot.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:03:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Digitalpunk:
I thought Dotd wasn't a Romero film. I would have gone to Andy's and popped zombies in the head with .22lr for hours upon hours until the sea of undead was thin enough to allow movement back and forth to the mall.


Digital



Best idea i've ever heard!! definately would've kiled a lot of those boring hours instead of playing long range chess.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:08:12 PM EDT by WildBoar]
More shocking evidence.

Another radio or TV broadcast, taken from the original documentary. click here

Our hero ROGER from the original DOTD documentary




More disturbing original footage. Pee your pants at your own peril. you have been warned
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:06:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Why not just set the bastards on fire. Seemed like they had fuel in the garage. Could have just dumped it on them and cooked them. Probably a lot better than wasting ammo. They were all clothed so they would probably burn.



Especially if you had some for of pit or bay you could bait large groups of zombies into. Maybe you could hang Steve over the pit as bait. Then dump large amounts of gasoline in the pit and BARBEQUE.

Repeat as necessary.

A lot quiter and faster than gunshot.



Could play a little Deathrace2000 in the parking lot with the big truck.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:07:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FormUnknown:
Why not just set the bastards on fire. Seemed like they had fuel in the garage. Could have just dumped it on them and cooked them. Probably a lot better than wasting ammo. They were all clothed so they would probably burn.



And the majic gas pump also, that worked when all of the other power was out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:11:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:13:18 PM EDT by natedog375]
IIRC, the town they were in originally had 400,000 inhabitants. In a preview, it flashed on the screen "EVERETT, WI" then "400,000", then scenes of zombies, and the population declining.

I would've stayed at the mall. I think everyone needs to read "The Zombie Survival Guide" before coming to these threads. According to it, zombies will rot away into nothing within 5-6 years, faster in a tropical climate with lots of bacteria. On the flipside, however, frozen zombies can theoretically last for hundreds of years, and there are "documented" cases of them doing so.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:17:10 PM EDT
seen both......

they shoulda stayed in the mall waited till winter and went from there. would suck that andy would die but if he couldnt make it over then oh well. its about survival not doing the impossible to save one person.

tho the 80's one was a lil bit comical but they had the right idea...untill the bikers showed up
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:18:39 PM EDT
Stay in the mall but conduct a rescue/supply mission to Andy.

The gas is too critical to use on RLFs. Gas gives you mobility when you decide to exit
the area.

They needed some redundancy in their defenses, so if the perimeter were to be
breached they'd have a fallback area.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:20:39 PM EDT
they ahd fuel, amybe not alot, but you only need some, they had paint, paint (oil leastwise) is flammable, so you throw soem fuel and oil into the crowd (maybe make a cheap fuel bomb with a 5 gallon food pail) and get a group burning, then you proceed to whip opened cans of paint as far as you can so that th epaint trails onto the burners. Now you have soem corpses walign around on fire, possibly alighting others that have clothing that is flammable enough.


Also use the truck to kill them, just drive it BACKWARDS so that they cannot break the rad or anything, hell, lock the doors on it real good and back it up agains't Andy's shop and have him load it and run him on over to the mall..........


That is what I would do, hell you could use the truck in similar manner to raid for food at local shopping centers, though you wuold still have to clear the shops, smaller shops may be better to begin with
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:21:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Stay in the mall but conduct a rescue/supply mission to Andy.

The gas is too critical to use on RLFs. Gas gives you mobility when you decide to exit
the area.


They needed some redundancy in their defenses, so if the perimeter were to be
breached they'd have a fallback area.



Good point.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:27:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:35:28 PM EDT by Sukebe]
If you do a zombie chick would you become a zombie as well? Do they have to bite you or is it simply an exchange of bodily fluids that infects you with the killer zombie virus?

I ask because I envision a scenario where you capture a hot zombie chick and do her while she's all tied up. Sort of a necro-bondage thing.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:34:36 PM EDT
+1 for the pit barbecue
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:41:30 PM EDT

Take as much food to gunshop as possible. Zombies would of eventually rotted so bad that they would been no threat. Just wait them out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:59:54 PM EDT
I' don't buy that Andy ran out of ammunition or was to low to make a difference. Perhaps the those running the test artifically reduced his stock.

His place was a what two to three story gun shop. He looks like the survivalist gun store owner, not Elmer Fuds deer and duck guns, so he should have lots of ammo put back.

We can't assume 400,000 will all be zombies and we can't assume they ALL are at the mall area. Many would have been infected when the safe areas were over run and they would be scattered through out the coutnry side. At most 100k around the mall. Sniper fire should be able to deal with them all.

I think we do need to be aware that Zombies can run. That was the point of this training film. All previous training knowledge was lacking in this area. We now know from the tests Zombies can run and non CNS hits can slow a zombie down, hence the "twitchers"

We know that some Marines did see them alive. We saw a CH-53E fly over. So after a few weeks thinning the heard, perhaps Andy might have some books on how to make some radios and you could start comms, or village into town or a radio shack and get some SW and Ham sets to find info and contact survivors.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:05:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
If you do a zombie chick would you become a zombie as well? Do they have to bite you or is it simply an exchange of bodily fluids that infects you with the killer zombie virus?

I ask because I envision a scenario where you capture a hot zombie chick and do her while she's all tied up. Sort of a necro-bondage thing.




Damn.............. And I thought I was a pervert....
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:07:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 3:07:20 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By Dru:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
If you do a zombie chick would you become a zombie as well? Do they have to bite you or is it simply an exchange of bodily fluids that infects you with the killer zombie virus?

I ask because I envision a scenario where you capture a hot zombie chick and do her while she's all tied up. Sort of a necro-bondage thing.




Damn.............. And I thought I was a pervert....



There is actually a clip where something along these lines happens in the DVD extras. Some idiots at some kind of frat party. It goes poorly.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:10:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dru:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
If you do a zombie chick would you become a zombie as well? Do they have to bite you or is it simply an exchange of bodily fluids that infects you with the killer zombie virus?

I ask because I envision a scenario where you capture a hot zombie chick and do her while she's all tied up. Sort of a necro-bondage thing.




Damn.............. And I thought I was a pervert....



+1
If you must do an undead chick there are better options than zombie pie......though I wouldn't turn down Melinda Clarke's character in Return of The Living Dead 3.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 3:12:45 PM EDT
One thing to watch out for when attempting to burn the zombies is that one would need to make sure they had fire-fighting capabilities should a flaming zombie fall against your building and set it on fire.
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