Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Page / 3
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 11:56:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hugh1:

Impeach means to bring the charges against them not to convict them.
View Quote


Fine, but that will not affect him seeking future office, because he was not successfully impeached.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 12:04:05 PM EST
Not sure how this is going to play out.

Turtle said that he was down to vote, but it would be about 30 days out (obviously Trump wouldn't be in office then so it was Constitutionally not applicable).
But as of last night it sounded like he was considering moving the timeline up.

Alan Dershowitz (Trump's lawyer on peachmints v1.0) said that impeaching/convicting a former president after he left office was not Constitutionally sound).

But given that we are in a post Constitutional world now, I think anything is possible. The left AND right are both terrified of the idea of Trump 2024, a MAGA party and Trump generally being a thorn in their side.
Making him ineligible to run again and essentially a convicted felon would really clip his wings. It would also serve as a warning to anybody considering following in his footsteps.
The idea of that pleases them.

Even if Trump escapes that minefield, he has the SDNY to deal with over the tax investigation, GA was looking at him for something (dunno what) and it is possible DC comes after him civilly and/or criminally over the Capitol protest.

There is a decent shot he will be the first former president to die in prison.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 12:08:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hugh1:

I would agree, BUT the people doing this only use the constitution as a door mat.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hugh1:
Originally Posted By nyrifle:
Originally Posted By Troutman84:
Originally Posted By BenjaminDover:
The house may vote to impeach but there isn't time for the senate to remove him. Unless they don't think he plans on leaving next week
Eta: just wasting more money


The senate can impose two sanctions: removal from office, and disqualification from holding office in the future. Obviously there isn't enough time for congress to accomplish the first, but holding a senate trial after Trump leaves office could still accomplish the second.
Not to nitpick . But it does not say or it says and. In my somewhat feeble mind that would mean the second punishment can only follow the first. If a private citizen cannot be removed from office the whole punishment part would be moot.

I would agree, BUT the people doing this only use the constitution as a door mat.

Sadly I have to agree with your post.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 12:13:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 12:15:08 PM EST by Troutman84]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nyrifle:
Not to nitpick . But it does not say or it says and. In my somewhat feeble mind that would mean the second punishment can only follow the first. If a private citizen cannot be removed from office the whole punishment part would be moot.
View Quote


You may have a point. But for the sake of argument, let’s say a President commits a high crime or misdemeanor on his last day in office. Or that the offense isn’t even discovered until after the President has already left office. Surely, the founders would have intended for the congress to possess the authority to deny the offender the opportunity to hold public office again, were such a situation to manifest.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:00:15 PM EST
They will impeach Trump a second time. They can do this because they're in majority now of the house.

It is all for partisans political purposes.

To say, see we have been telling you he was bad from the beginning. He is the only president to have been impeached twice. Once for abuse of power. Which was actually done by our Biden when he was the VP. The second time for. Inciting violence and the attack on the US Capitol. Which by any reasonable persons measures does not meet any criteria for inciting.

But hey. Trump bad.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:01:55 PM EST
Next week when Joe needs all good cabinet picks appointed, well sorry we have this impeachment trial thing to do. Probably take a full month.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:05:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ACDer:
They can impeach him after leaving office and bar him from running again. Thats the game.
View Quote


As well as strip him of US Secret Service protection and the former presidential salary.

~Will
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:20:07 PM EST
It has all become meaningless to me  if Democrats can take over power by fraud and deceit.  
It's now the biggest kid on the playground rules.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:22:31 PM EST
There is precedent for holding a trial AFTER someone has left office.



In 1876, Secretary of War William Belknap was investigated by the House for corruption. Just minutes before the House was set to vote on his impeachment, he raced to the White House and handed his resignation to President Ulysses Grant.
The House went ahead and impeached him anyway, and the Senate proceeded to have a trial. A majority voted to convict, but not the two-thirds required, so he was acquitted.

8nBAIT

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:25:52 PM EST
It would be flat out unconstitutional for democrats to impeach Trump in the Senate after he leaves office.  He would be unable to mount a defense which goes against impeachment proceedings detailed in the Constitution, and it would be a civil rights violation.  


And the precedent it would set would be even worse.


Once the GOP gets the house/senate/potus again they could impeach obama. Hell, nothing to stop them from impeaching Obama and making it retroactive to 12:00pm on Jan 20th 2009 as though he never took office.   Then go back and impeach every democrat president.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:30:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Not sure they could get the votes in the senate anyway. It requires a two-thirds majority. Then again, there is no shortage of weak dick republicans in the senate, so who knows?

Trump should just fuck with them by waiting until 11:59 PM on the 19th, then issue his resignation.
View Quote

Along with a truck load of pardons
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:33:54 PM EST
Anything is possible and it's not like the Supreme court will rule it is unconstitutional since no high crime or misdemeanors was committed.  That said, it would take a lot of Republican cuck senators to pull it off.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:38:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ACDer:
They can impeach him after leaving office and bar him from running again. Thats the game.
View Quote


Exactly
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:40:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Digsafe:
If it’s just the house that impeached Trump why do they call him impeached if the senate doesn’t do it.

A bill doesn’t get passed just because the house votes for it. They need the senate also
View Quote


Because impeachment is by definition the House voting to impeach.  It is essentially the political equivalent of being charged or indicted.  CONVICTION is what happens in the Senate.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:40:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 1:41:53 PM EST by 8nbait]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Anything is possible and it's not like the Supreme court will rule it is unconstitutional since no high crime or misdemeanors was committed.  That said, it would take a lot of Republican cuck senators to pull it off.
View Quote
It's not the job of the Supreme Court to decide if a high crime or misdemeanor has been committed.  The US Constitution is clear that it's the Senates job to do so.

Mitch is signalling that he will vote to convict.   The votes will be there.  Mitch wants Trump to never be able to run again which means he has no chance to run the R party.


8nBAIT
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:41:26 PM EST
Nope.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:42:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 8nbait:
There is precedent for holding a trial AFTER someone has left office.



In 1876, Secretary of War William Belknap was investigated by the House for corruption. Just minutes before the House was set to vote on his impeachment, he raced to the White House and handed his resignation to President Ulysses Grant.
The House went ahead and impeached him anyway, and the Senate proceeded to have a trial. A majority voted to convict, but not the two-thirds required, so he was acquitted.

8nBAIT

View Quote


Article I and II of the constitution do not specifically mention any cabinet or other offices except the President and Vice President....On January 20th after Biden is sworn in, Trump will no longer be President.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:47:58 PM EST
I figure the House will debate it for longer than a month unless they just vote it down and say to get on with actual work instead of this crap. I'd rather they hash it out long as possible at this point at least it's that much less getting done. Can they charge Trump after he's out of office for for anything that happened while he was in office? If so I'd look for a bunch of scrummed up crap by D.C. , maybe civil suits even. They won't quit hounding unless they are somehow made to to quit.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:49:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdxshooter:
Any congresscritters who oppose the impeachment or conviction have already been threatened with being blacklisted from everything. I bet they won't even be able to get a coffee at Starbucks at this rate.
View Quote


Trump still has a lot of support among the people.  Republicans voting for impeachment or to convict in the Senate will have to face their voters.  

And, its a different country now than in October.  There are a lot of people who now believe their vote doesn't count anymore.  So the old argument "who else are you going to vote for" from Republicans really doesn't apply anymore.  AND, after last week, the Democrats are going to do bad things either with or without Republican help, so it doesn't matter if you vote, don't vote or vote 3rd party, the results are going to be the same.

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 1:53:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeckThomas:
theater to make the country still think there's two parties

View Quote


You sir get the gold star for today.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:06:38 PM EST
Can a successful impeachment be reached once he is out of office? I have not seen a definitive answer on this from the talking media heads so not sure if it’s still possible; of course along with the symbolic reasons for doing so - only prez to be impeached twice...fool everyone into thinking two opposing parties can work together and agree on something...controlling the narrative like the left is masterful at...the most significant benefit I can see is under a successful impeachment along with losing his lifetime salary & travel stipend & SS protection, he would be prohibited from running for federal office in future since he would essentially be a convicted felon from an electoral standpoint. Not sure where his mind is right now but I believe he can accomplish more for where he thinks the country should be by staying in private sector rather than back in office.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:12:59 PM EST
Interesting thought.

If the house votes to impeach (and they will), his term ends, they have basically made their case (house) while he was still POTUS and sent it to the jury (senate) for dismissal or conviction.

Would seem almost like a CEO stepping down during court proceedings. Not like the trial ends because he left his job.

I haven't been watching it at all (shit is stressful enough as is) but has Trump had any sort of representation/council present or is this basically a kangaroo court at this point?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:16:10 PM EST
I don't see how it could. The idea is to strip him of his office. How is it possible to do that if he is no longer in office? It's all political kabuki theatre. If he is no longer in the theatre how is that possible?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:20:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fttam:
They aren’t thinking this thru.......

https://media3.giphy.com/media/5yLgocCOWDywCQi2g6Y/200.gif
View Quote


See, this is what I'm thinking. You're taking a bunch of disenfranchised people and creating a martyr of their hero. I dont understand what they think this will do to benefit their pocket books, much less the greater good.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:21:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Atomic_Ferret:

I haven't been watching it at all (shit is stressful enough as is) but has Trump had any sort of representation/council present or is this basically a kangaroo court at this point?
View Quote


The House part is equivalent to a grand jury preceding.    Only the prosecution is heard.  Trump is not represented.  He will when the Senate holds a trail before Jan 20th if Mitch were to call the Senate out of recess or after the 20th if he does not. Chuck will be in charge after the 20th so there WILL be a trail.


8nBAIT


Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:21:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kihn:
I don't see how it could. The idea is to strip him of his office. How is it possible to do that if he is no longer in office? It's all political kabuki theatre. If he is no longer in the theatre how is that possible?
View Quote



They want to strip him of secret service protection.

So that they can, er, delete him.

The swamp has no idea what part of their shit he's had eyes on.   They want him gone.   Its as simple as that.  
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:25:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FVMC:


Exactly
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FVMC:
Originally Posted By ACDer:
They can impeach him after leaving office and bar him from running again. Thats the game.


Exactly



You can’t impeach someone who isn’t holding an office.  
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:26:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
Yes. I don't think there is anything preventing proceedings from going forward after he leaves office.
View Quote

Yes it does.  You can't impeach a private citizen, which DJT becomes upon Biden's inauguration.

I think this is a hail mary attempt to impeach and convict him so that he's not eligible for office in the future.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:30:13 PM EST
Anything’s possible when the rules no longer apply...
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:33:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 2:35:34 PM EST by 74HC]
SCOTUS needs to set the bar back up to a high standard.  Otherwise, demorat politicians like Schiff will impeach any opposition president simply because he had a wet dream about doing so the night before.

If not, every opposition president will be impeach by a demorat controlled House going forward. I do expect every opposition president will be impeached by a demorat House in my life time.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:38:14 PM EST
These asshole dems that are talking about impeaching him today without any evidence or witnesses and waiting until the new democrat senate is seated is insane.

Think about the precedent that sets. That you can convict a former president after he is out of office.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:38:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HeckThomas:
theater to make the country still think there's two parties

View Quote
Absolute insanity to me that anyone can watch these cunts working towards impeachment and still be arguing partisan politics around it.

These cunts have done fuck all for the working American people over the past year, when people really needed it.  Sat by and watched people's lives and businesses ruined.  But they've sure got energy and resources to fuck around with this shit.

Buncha cunts, all of them, and the best I can hope for is that it helps open the eyes of another million or two people to that fact.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:41:54 PM EST
watching the hearing, the fucking democrats are going FULL SEND on impeachment.



I think they saw the level of support he had at the demonstration, and I think their only goal is to prevent him from holding office again. And right now is their best chance to get a full impeachment with conviction, which keeps him from coming back in 2024.  Which they are scared of.


4 years of him on open media, and with the trainwreck biden is gonna be, he's got a good chance of return in 2024, they are trying to put a bullet him him while he's down.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:43:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
watching the hearing, the fucking democrats are going FULL SEND on impeachment.



I think they saw the level of support he had at the demonstration, and I think their only goal is to prevent him from holding office again. And right now is their best chance to get a full impeachment with conviction, which keeps him from coming back in 2024.  Which they are scared of.


4 years of him on open media, and with the trainwreck biden is gonna be, he's got a good chance of return in 2024, they are trying to put a bullet him him while he's down.
View Quote
Republicans want him gone just as much.

8nBAIT
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:44:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ScottsGT:
Not enough time to go from House to Senate and once he's out, cannot impeach a private citizen.  At least that's what I read on the internet, so it must be true.
View Quote


Wanna bet?  Especially if they declare that makes him ineligible to run for office again, which they already have.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:50:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
I think that is a possible outcome. It's an interesting legal question as to whether the other things that go along with impeachment besides removal from office would also attach with a conviction.
View Quote


Congress does not have the authority to impeach a private citizen.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:50:34 PM EST
Just a waste of money.
FJB, FKH, and FNP.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:51:18 PM EST
It would require 60 votes in the senate.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:54:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ScottsGT:
Not enough time to go from House to Senate and once he's out, cannot impeach a private citizen.  At least that's what I read on the internet, so it must be true.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ScottsGT:
Not enough time to go from House to Senate and once he's out, cannot impeach a private citizen.  At least that's what I read on the internet, so it must be true.

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
Wanna bet?  Especially if they declare that makes him ineligible to run for office again, which they already have.


Its not even REALLY about running again (well, maybe for the RINOs it is).   The Dems want to strip him of his security detail.   They want him to be a target.   They want to punish him by actual deletion.   They don't EVER want someone to rise outside of the machine politics framework again.   They want him gone.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 2:56:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Congress does not have the authority to impeach a private citizen.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
I think that is a possible outcome. It's an interesting legal question as to whether the other things that go along with impeachment besides removal from office would also attach with a conviction.


Congress does not have the authority to impeach a private citizen.
See 8nBAIT's post above. It looks like there is precedent.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:01:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
See 8nBAIT's post above. It looks like there is precedent.
View Quote


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

I think any such impeachment that resulted in conviction would stand to be overturned if challenged.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:02:53 PM EST
At this point.....who gives a shit?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:05:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 3:06:26 PM EST by HammerForged]
I believe with as far as they are pushing everything they will stop him from running next time. After the 20th Mitch will vote to not impeach while still getting what he really wants.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:11:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
See 8nBAIT's post above. It looks like there is precedent.


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.



The courts that wouldn't look at the vote statistical anomaly cases on the merits?

You think THOSE courts would uphold a case by Trump to add some due process to what the dems are going to do?

Really?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:14:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
You have too much faith in Republicans.

I'm 100% they are going to continue throwing Trump and Trump supporters under the bus. They don't realize that the future of the GOP Rests with Trump supporters. If they alienate Trump's supporters, they might as well go and disband the GOP, and join the DNC.
View Quote
At this point I don't think the GOP wants anything to do with Trump supporters. It wouldn't shock me at all if they came out publicly and said something along the lines of "Anyone who voted for Trump needs to find a new party". The media has been successful in their branding of Trump and his supporters as Racist, Fascists, Nazi scumbags. Not to mention violent and a "danger to our democracy".

IMO the future of the GOP is to be just to the right of the DNC.  And it's pretty apparent that the DNC in the next 2 years go full on communist, that will make the GOP America's version of Euro Socialism. Any future conservative party will be labeled the same as Trump supporters are now.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:17:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

I think any such impeachment that resulted in conviction would stand to be overturned if challenged.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
See 8nBAIT's post above. It looks like there is precedent.


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

I think any such impeachment that resulted in conviction would stand to be overturned if challenged.


The same courts that just turned their heads and signed off on massive election irregularities.  Those courts.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:18:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

I think any such impeachment that resulted in conviction would stand to be overturned if challenged.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Theodoric:
See 8nBAIT's post above. It looks like there is precedent.


Precedent that has never been addressed by the courts.

I think any such impeachment that resulted in conviction would stand to be overturned if challenged.
I think you are likely right. On a side note, the post prompted me to go look this up in wiki. It's kind of interesting how much attitudes regarding the DOJ and it's predecessors have changed over the years. Can you imagine this level of intervention happening in today's environment?

On February 2, 1877, Belknap visited Grant and pleaded for his indictment to be dismissed.  The next day Grant asked his cabinet for advice; Secretary of State Hamilton Fish was furious at Belknap and wanted him to be tried. Grant decided otherwise, and wrote to Taft that the District Attorney should be directed to dismiss the case. Following Grant's instructions, Taft told Washington, D.C. District Attorney Henry H. Wells that the evidence against Belknap would not sustain a conviction, and that Belknap had suffered enough during the Senate trial. Wells moved for dismissal; on February 8, 1877, Belknap's case, indictment No. 11,262, was dismissed by Justice Arthur MacArthur Sr. No longer facing the possibility of conviction and imprisonment, Belknap decided not to follow through on his threat to sue Pierrepont.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:26:24 PM EST
Have they accused him of lighting the Reichstag on fire yet?

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:56:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By osprey21:

Pretty much this.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Originally Posted By bagofcrabs65:
This is merely a move for history books.

“A president so horrible and corrupt, he was impeached twice!”

Pretty much this.

But he's not corrupt. May have a big mouth.

The Swamp/Bureaucracy is the corruption. But we all hopefully know this.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:57:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:


The courts that wouldn't look at the vote statistical anomaly cases on the merits?

You think THOSE courts would uphold a case by Trump to add some due process to what the dems are going to do?

Really?
View Quote


It costs them nothing and functionally changes nothing so yeah, I think they would.  It only takes 4 to hear a case.
Page / 3
Top Top