Here is the way I look at it. If we really want to end immigration all we need to do is make the following points:
1. If we need illegals to come and do work that no one wants to do then there is a surplus of jobs in the USA (thanks George Bush). Therefore, we no longer need to pay into unemployment insurance and no longer need welfare for the able bodied. That sould remove billions out of the gov't budget and send tons of government workers to the fields to pick peaches. On top of that, I would get at least $400/month more in my paycheck. That is roughly a new AR or AK every two months.
2. If we need illegal slaves who work for nothing, then we can repeal the minimum wage. After all, if it is fair to have illegal, soon to be citizens, who work for nothing, who will soon be legal; then it is ok to have legal citizens to make next to nothing also.
3. If bad working conditions are ok, then we no longer need Unions. After all, if bad labor practice is ok for some, why not all?
4. If an illegal can steal a social security number, go to the hospital and get care, not pay for it, get a job and not pay taxes, and file for government benefits under a bogus name and SSN, THEN WHY DON'T ALL OF US DO IT!!! If the government wants anarchy, let's give it to them!
This drives us to the real point. Illegals are not here taking jobs that no one wants. Anyone who has worked at some of the large warehouses and packing plants here in Chicago knows full well that illegals steal SSNs to get high paying jobs ($15-25 per hour). They claim a bunch of made-up children and check off as many deductions as possible for the ole' W2. Then, after 6 months to a year, when the INS or tax man catch up, they pack their bags and head to the next job. They keep buying new stolen identities from black market vendors (ask the school kids in the public schools, they know where to go). The truth is there are plenty of all types of jobs, and lots of illegals are taking them. So don't be surprised if you file your taxes some day and find out from the IRS that they were already filed and direct deposited. Some Venezuelan has just decided to move back on your return and live well for a couple of years while he and his family wait for the paperwork to clear.
The Democrats are pretty funny too with their double speak. They say they are for unionized labor, but want undocumented and unorganized people to become citizens and work for nothing? I think not. The Republicans have been hard at work for 30 years trying to move union labor out of the country, while Dems are working hard to create new "victims of the prolitariate". And unlike real USA citizens, these one truely believe in the socialist and communist principles of Karl Marks.
Meanwhile, Republicans are working hard to look good in the eyes of their future anti-Republicans. Will the illegals like Republicans? Hell no. Because conservative ideals are built around love of country, upholding the laws, duty, making our nation better, and self reliance. The illegals do not love our country, the want to annex it. They do love our jobs. They have no sense of duty. They rely on our resources. and they do not believe in making a nation a better place. That is why they left the shit hole they came from. And will they be grateful for their jobs and the USA? I have more faith that Democrats will support the wars and the military.
In summary, the Dems look at the illegals as new victim voters. The Republicans will be stabbed in the back by those they are trying to be "compassionate" to.
Ancient Rome thought it would be able to expand it's vast territory over the earth and make its conquered people citizens over time. Eventually Rome imploded and no one was loyal to it. The US has great resources that it has spead all over the earth in the hopes of winning the hearts and minds of others while improving our own position. Will we end up imploding as well?
No borders means no nation.
Which is yet another reason Libertarians dont cut it
I'm agreeing with JoseyWales on this stuff (that some Mexicans are taking advantage of the system and leaving us with the bill) But need to add my own 2 cents. So to start there are several things about this illegal immigration thing that just piss me off. So here they are.
1) A great many of them don't bother learning English. This is especially true of the older generation. I have known farm workers who have been here 20 years, bought a house and raised a family here. YET STILL CAN NOT SPEAK ENGLISH. Their worried that they will "Sound Funny." At least make an attempt at speaking the language of the country your in. I wouldn't go to France and demand they speak English, I would at least ATTEMPT speaking french.
2) A guest worker program with certain requirements would be a good alternative to just giving them licenses (Like California). Such as after Germany was defeated in 1945 they were left with large segments of their population dead and a shattered infrastructure. So to help them rebuild they established a guest worker program with Turkey with the understanding that when you come to West Germany you follow the country's rules and assimilate. And it worked.
So what we should do is establish a guest worker program where you work here for 10 months then spend 2 months in Mexico or a straight 2-3 year guest worker permit.
You will get a federal ID/Drivers license (If you pass the DMV test and have vehicle insurance),
You must declare your earnings to the IRS where the government will take a percentage and if you want such things as health care or sending your kids to school then you must pay the corresponding tax. If you cannot follow this then the government will confiscate your bank accounts and you get sent back to Mexico.
Then perform a background check, if you have a record then you don't get to work here. And if you commit a serious crime here (DUI, Assault, fraud, Etc) Your as gets deported back to Mexico that day and if an agreement is worked out with the Mexican government prosecuted/Imprisoned there.
Your ability to get a guest worker ID depends on the amount of English you know. If your fluent then here's your ID. If all you can speak is Spanish then go learn a few English phrases and such then try again. You don't need to diagram a sentence, just speak to the locals.
You also have to take a once a week citizenship class for how to live like an American and what we stand for. If you cannot do this then you get a bus ticket back to your village.
You will have many of the rights of Americans such as protection from unreasonable search and seizure, minimum wage, right to unionize and free speech. You however cannot vote, buy guns, or own land.
3) The Republicans are going about this the wrong way trying to build this great wall to keep the illegal's out. Instead of trying to Americanize these people or giving them better options. But unfortunately even then they would have a difficult problem dealing with the Democrats who promise a drivers license and all the privileges of being an American (Health care, schools, voting for them)without any of the responsibility's (paying tax's, having vehicle insurance, etc).
4) I think a huge contributor to this problem is some peoples need to be politically "correct." To give an example my brothers friend is in the LAPD. He can look at one of these beater cars driven by a Mexican and make an accurate guess that if he pulled him over the driver wouldn't have any insurance, registration and the guy probably wouldn't even have a license. But if he did that he would be censured by the department as a racist and police discrimination.
Now this said there are a large amount of Mexicans that really are honest, assimilating to American life and hardworking. This post is written for those people who choose to ignore our ways, ethics and laws here in America.
That's all I have to say for now on this subject. I had a lot to rant about so I Hope I didn't hijack your tread joseywales
-Broadcasting crazy American ideals from Minden airfield.
Go ahead and sound off. Let's get it all out before it's too late, if it isn't already.
The fact that the lobbyist control who sits in those seats in D.C. is bad for anyone who opposes illegal immigration. All the big corporations care about is profits, and keeping labor costs down is one of the easiest ways to insure that the rich fatten their pockets just a little more. It’s obvious that these protestors have no pride in country or they would have stayed and tried to fix their own situation in whatever country they came from. I worked in a factory where a lot of envelopes were handed out on payday. About 30% (as far as I can remember) of the employees were paid “under the table” This same company has grown by 200% in the last 2 years. I’m guessing the employment ratio of illegal to legal citizens is about the same. In part its our business owners who are to blame for this problem, if no one employed the illegal immigrants then they would have no reason to come searching for a job. We have become a nation of lazy people, everyone is looking for a get rich quick scheme and the only ones that have found it are the .gov and the corporations.
I like the point about welfare, if we need these people to drive our current workforce then why do we have so many able bodied Americans on welfare?
Wave good by to middle class America…………
But what the hell do I know I’m only a 25-year-old kid.
P.S. send a brick