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Posted: 4/2/2006 2:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 2:07:37 PM EDT by raven]
Pure evil.

Barbarians of suburbs target French Jews
Matthew Campbell, Paris

THE pretty schoolgirl known as Yalda wore tight white trousers and thigh-high boots to the rendezvous. Her target, a young Jewish telephone salesman, quickly fell under her spell. He meekly followed her when she suggested a nightcap at her place.

It would be his last date.

The testimony of this 17-year-old femme fatale who happily offered herself as “bait” in the kidnapping of Ilan Halimi, whose tortured body was found on wasteland, has shocked a country which is haunted by a painful history of anti-semitism.

Yalda’s only moment of doubt came when she heard Halimi’s shrieks as he was carried away by thugs in balaclava helmets. “He screamed for two minutes, with a high-pitched voice like a girl,” she told investigators.

She soon forgot, however. On Halimi’s first night in captivity, she and her boyfriend celebrated in a hotel room paid for by the kidnappers.

Forget the French idyll portrayed in such books as A Year in Provence. France is being forced to confront her dark side as details emerge of horrific crimes in the suburbs.

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.

For years the Parisian establishment has quaked at the prospect of angry hordes invading their affluent heartland and last week that nightmare came true as gangs of hooded youths robbed and bludgeoned white students attending anti-government demonstrations.

Disquiet about the spread of barbarism across the boulevard périphérique has been fuelled by the chilling story of Yalda.

The gang she worked for was known as “les Barbares”, the Barbarians, and included blacks, Arabs and whites from Portugal and France.

Barbarians seemed an appropriate name. The shocking cruelty inflicted on Halimi seemed to have little to do with efforts to extract money from his anguished family. It evoked the sadistic moral universe of A Clockwork Orange, the novel by Anthony Burgess, with a dose of anti-semitism thrown in.

Thanks to Yalda’s charms, Halimi was imprisoned and tortured with acid and cigarette burns for more than three weeks in the heart of a council estate.

More than 30 neighbours in the building knew what was happening but said nothing about the crime, part of a worrying wave of attacks against Jews all over the country.

Besides Yalda, several women have been arrested in an investigation into their role in botched efforts to lure other Jewish men into “honey traps”.

“He wanted a Jew,” a girl called Audrey told police, referring to Youssouf Fofana, the charismatic leader of the Barbarians, who was listed by the girls in their telephone directories as “Youssouf the barbarian”.

His choice of victims was based on two anti-semitic myths: that Jews are all rich and that they stick together. “They’re a big community,” Fofana told Audrey. “United and willing to pay.”

Audrey lost her nerve after reeling in two targets, one of whom was rejected when it turned out that he was not a Jew. She infuriated Fofana when she failed to follow up on her second victim. “When you start something you have to finish it,” he shouted.

Tifenn, a small, dark 19-year-old from Brittany, was also a procurer in this macabre operation. She described herself as being less “sexy” than the other girls and said that her role was limited to putting prettier school friends in touch with Fofana.

Like Audrey and Yalda, Tifenn attended a boarding school on the outskirts of Paris that was funded by social services. Yalda had been followed by children’s courts and was receiving counselling: at 13 she had been the victim of une tournante — as the commonplace ritual of gang rape has come to be known in the suburbs.

Other examples of savagery in these lawless enclaves were exposed on Friday at the trial of Jamal Derrar. He was accused of burning 17-year-old Sohane Benziane to death in 2002 in Vitry-Sur-Seine, where last year’s orgy of suburban rioting began, after she defied his order to stay away from his “territory”.

“You’re frightened, huh?” he jeered, according to testimony, after pouring petrol over her head and taking out his cigarette lighter. He lit the lighter several times in front of her face to torment her to tears until finally setting her alight.

“It is barbarism,” Kahina, the victim’s sister, said last week. “I want barbarism rejected. It is becoming so banal. We are not in a war. I refuse to live in a country that cannot defend its citizens.”

Another girl, 18-year-old Chahrazad Belayni, was doused with petrol by a suitor and set alight in November last year. She remains in a coma. In Marseilles in 2004, Ghofrane Haddaoui, a 23-year-old woman from the suburbs, was stoned to death by a gang of youths.

The choice of Halimi as a victim because he was Jewish was a particularly distressing component of the crime for a nation whose anti-semitic past included wartime collaboration in the transfer of Jews to the death camps.

France has the biggest Muslim and Jewish populations of any European country and in some suburbs it is not uncommon to see anti-Jewish grafitti. “We’ve got blacks and Arabs in one camp and then it is the Jews in the other,” said Mamadou Menibe, a young man of west African origin from Vitry-Sur-Seine.

The Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France claims that violent attacks against Jews began rising abruptly in France at the start of the second Palestinian intifada in 2000.

Some experts say it has been fuelled by Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala, a popular comedian who blames Jews for the suffering of blacks and was found guilty last month of incitement to racial hatred.

The hostility has led thousands of French Jews to move to Israel in the past five years, including about 3,300 last year, the highest number in 35 years.

So obsessed was Fofana, the Barbarians’ leader, with targeting Jews that he had established which shops were Jewish by checking which of them closed during Jewish holidays.

When he met Yalda he was impressed. “With you,” he said, “I can do wonders. With your physique you’ll make a fortune . . . all the boys will fall into the trap.”

He offered her £3,000 to approach Halimi in his shop and lure him to a meeting. She got Halimi’s number and rang him up to ask him out on a date.

She told her friend Tifenn that she found Halimi “friendly” and “cute”. After they met in a cafe, she invited him back to her fictitious flat on the other side of the ring road. The Barbarians were lying in wait.

Some commentators seem traumatised by too much reality, upbraiding the foreign media for painting “la belle France” in an unflattering light. But the truth is ugly, particularly when it comes to the barbarians camped at the gate.

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2114296_1,00.html
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:11:11 PM EDT
isnt hunting over bait illegal anyway?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:29:58 PM EDT
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:46:28 PM EDT
Three weeks of torture with acid and cigaretts. That is about as evil as you can get. How long will it be before the good people of this world decide it is time to wipe out the evil scumbags like the ones in this story?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:49:01 PM EDT

Savages. Complete fucking savages.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:49:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



98% of arfcom would have shot the bastards with their CCW. The resulting "draw down" thread would be locked after 20 pages for insulting the ROP, and would result in two permanently locked accounts.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:55:57 PM EDT

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:57:53 PM EDT
That is the sickest thing I've ever heard of.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:58:27 PM EDT
Age of consent varies from nation to nation. Despite that, it is indeed barbaric what they did to that young man. Solution: bullet to the back of the head for all those involved - including the pretty girl.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:58:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



I bet 98% of all guys would fall for it if the chick was hot enough. The 2% who don't fall for it are hooomooos.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:58:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Anyone see a trend here?



Yes. Everytime moslems do something nutty, you will jump in and equivocate on their behalf.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:00:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 3:00:48 PM EDT by x5060]
... ... pics?



(yes i know im a horrible person)
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:02:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Anyone see a trend here?



Yes. Everytime moslems do something nutty, you will jump in and equivocate on their behalf.



Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:04:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Anyone see a trend here?



Yes. Everytime moslems do something nutty, you will jump in and equivocate on their behalf.



In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.
The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.
The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:04:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



The difference is that 98% of arfcom would be armed.

I recall someone's sig: "One day they may find me dead in a ditch. But BY GOD they'll find me in a pile of brass"
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:06:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



The difference is that 98% of arfcom would be armed.

I recall someone's sig: "One day they may find me dead in a ditch. But BY GOD they'll find me in a pile of brass"



Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:06:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 3:10:22 PM EDT by PlaymoreMinds]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Anyone see a trend here?



Yes. Everytime moslems do something nutty, you will jump in and equivocate on their behalf.



In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.
The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.
The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.




Whoa...It's ok to make blanket statements about the French but not about Moslims????

Whatever..........

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:11:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



98% of arfcom would have shot the bastards with their CCW. The resulting "draw down" thread would be locked after 20 pages for insulting the ROP, and would result in two permanently locked accounts.








Unchecked immigration is not a good thing. Hmmmm?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:13:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.



Suuuuuuuure. They are treated like second-class citizens, so they'll beat a few jews and burn some cars to deal with it?

Why is it that every nation with a noteworthy moslem population (not excluding the MENA region) has all sorts of problems with said populations? Gee, could it be that a certain religion is incompatible with civilized living and modern values?



The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.



The French may be arrogant, but how about we blame people for their own actions? Unless the French are forcing the moslem immigrants to act like rampaging orcs, let's place the blame with the folks that deserve it: The moslem immigrants.



The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.



The lack of assimilation is the fault of the immigrants, not of the French. The little savages want to keep their quaint MENA 'traditions', like jew-hunting and woman beating; short of beating civilization into them, what more are the French to do?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:13:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PlaymoreMinds:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Anyone see a trend here?



Yes. Everytime moslems do something nutty, you will jump in and equivocate on their behalf.



In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.
The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.
The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.




Whoa...It's ok to make blanket statements about the French but not about Moslims????

Whatever..........




Still upset over that tatoo thread, eh?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bookertbab:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



I bet 98% of all guys would fall for it if the chick was hot enough. The 2% who don't fall for it are hooomooos.



Or happily married.

Bob
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:14:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ginger:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



98% of arfcom would have shot the bastards with their CCW. The resulting "draw down" thread would be locked after 20 pages for insulting the ROP, and would result in two permanently locked accounts.








Unchecked immigration is not a good thing. Hmmmm?



That is the real lesson here.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 3:16:28 PM EDT by ChrisLe]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



LOL..Leave it to the apologist to find a way to justify the torture and cold blooded murder of innocents.....
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:18:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



LOL..Leave it to the apologist to find a way to justify the torture of innocents.....



Best way to stop terrorism is to find the root cause.
1) Immigrants should not be treated like 2nd class citizens. Either let them have full rights, or don't let them in at all.

2) Don't interfere in internal politics of regions we don't understand. Both sides have blood on their hands in all of these ancient disputes. No reason for us to even get involved.

3) Islam, as practiced as it is in the Middle East, is incompatible with modern society. Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.

Sorry if I don't buy into AR15.com's "Islam is a Religion of Evil and all who pracitice it should be killed."
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:23:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:09:15 PM EDT by Madis]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.
The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.
The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.




what a load of apologist crap. In fact in countries like france there has been a zillion of special (and very expensive) programs to help those immigrants to assimilate. They DON'T WANT to assimilate, they see assimilation as something hostile and demand the recognition of their own little islamic "caliphates" in those ghettos where they live (and those places turned into ghettos AFTER the muslims arrived en masse). In reality those areas are already under islamic control, the normal french laws dont apply there and french police stays out of there as well. Local islamic "shahs" are the rulers there and have made their own set of rules (basically sharia) that everyone living there must follow.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:23:59 PM EDT
Or....just hunt them. Just like hunting any other predator. Use a sufficient caliber and volume of rounds. Sucks to give em a quick death, but its so much safer for the hunter.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:26:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 3:28:24 PM EDT by GaryM]
We are in the open battles of WWIV, is anyone suprised? Is there anyone who doesn't expect more of this to come?
All I can say is at least it is hitting the frogs first, may their ungrateful asses be the first to fall and this time no operation overlord to save them.

ETA, I feel sorry for the poor jews who are getting caught up in this. Any jew who is not armed and ready for battle has obviously forgotten their history since the beginning of time. They need to get off their arses before it turns into another warsaw ghetto situation, too little too late but at least they had a go at it.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:01:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:02:09 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



LOL..Leave it to the apologist to find a way to justify the torture of innocents.....



Best way to stop terrorism is to find the root cause.



No - the BEST way to stop terrorism is to destroy the cause - root and branch.



1) Immigrants should not be treated like 2nd class citizens. Either let them have full rights, or don't let them in at all.



You might want to look up the word "immigrant"

Immigrants are practically by definition "2nd class citizens" because they are NOT citizens.

I am an immigrant in the U.S. and I accept that I do not have the right to vote, because I am NOT a U.S. citizen. Am I being treated like a "2nd class citizen"? No, I am being treated like an immigrant, which is what I am. I know I ahven't tortured and killed any Jews lately, nor do I recall participating in any gang rapes.

The "guest worker" program that President Bush wants is NOT intended to treat the illegals as full citizens, so by your defintion they'd start raping and killing because they're being treated like "2nd class citizens"?


But, that said - I also don't really see your overall point above at all.

If the argument is that "if you treat a class of people badly, they will lash out" then you MUST explain why these savages decided to torture and kill JEWS, and not your run-of-the-mill french people of traditional french decent.

Jews have virtually no political power in France, so if you argument is that the poor downtrodden second-class immigratns are just lashing out at their "opressors" you need to explain how exactly JEWS are those opressors.





2) Don't interfere in internal politics of regions we don't understand. Both sides have blood on their hands in all of these ancient disputes. No reason for us to even get involved.



How is demanding that immigrants (who are guests, that voluntarily chose to come to your country) follow the law, somehow interfering with their "internal politics"?

This is the same kind of bullshit as in Denmark, where SOME Muslim immigrants swarm to Denmark for the awesome welfare state, opportunities and benefits - but then don't want to accept freedom of expression or democratic principles, and hide behind their "religious principles" while they try to destroy freedom for everyone else.




3) Islam, as practiced as it is in the Middle East, is incompatible with modern society. Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.



I don't believe that is true at all. I think it is perfectly possible for a Buddhist or fundie Christian to decide to pray or meditate or whatever, 5 times a day, without it leading to "religious fervor"

The fervor is the result of muslim leaders and preachers who are whipping their ignorant followers into that frenzy - I don't accept that it is an inherent part of being overly observant.

In fact, orthodox Jews in Israel probably spend as much or more time praying and doing religious things as observant muslims, but their "religious fervor" doesn't lead to violence (usually).



Sorry if I don't buy into AR15.com's "Islam is a Religion of Evil and all who pracitice it should be killed."



There are plenty of people on ar15.com who accept that not ALL muslims are out to get us. There are members on ar15.com who are muslim. There are undoubtedly millions upon millions of muslims around the world who hate the extremists as much as we do.

The problem however is
(a) what to do about the extremists
(b) how to tell the extremists from the non-extremists. There is a huge "silent majority" in Islam that is not speaking up. Do they love the extremists, and support them? So they hate and abhor them? Or do they jsut sit by and do nothing? I honestly don't know the answer to that, but I know there ARE plenty of muslims who hate what is happening, and who are TRYING to do something about it... which leads to the final question:
(c) are the non-extremists numerous and committed enough to take control of their religion

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:08:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:09:13 PM EDT by spartacus2002]
At the rate things are going here, you can change immigrants to mexicans, jews to anglos, france to LA, and voila! you have America in the year 2007
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:22:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
At the rate things are going here, you can change immigrants to mexicans, jews to anglos, france to LA, and voila! you have America in the year 2007



Unfortunately, this is very true.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:29:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Three weeks of torture with acid and cigaretts. That is about as evil as you can get. How long will it be before the good people of this world decide it is time to wipe out the evil scumbags like the ones in this story?




Hmmmmm, the "good" people of the world seem to have no problem with torture.
when the greatest country in the world says torture is A-ok, it rings hollow when we try to point the finger.
YMMV of course.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:35:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



I'd say attacks like these are a DAMN good reason to continue to banish them to ghettos.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Three weeks of torture with acid and cigaretts. That is about as evil as you can get. How long will it be before the good people of this world decide it is time to wipe out the evil scumbags like the ones in this story?




Hmmmmm, the "good" people of the world seem to have no problem with torture.
when the greatest country in the world says torture is A-ok, it rings hollow when we try to point the finger.
YMMV of course.



Yeah, my mileage does vary. Since when has the U.S. tortured someone with acid and cigarettes.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:36:02 PM EDT
but but but, muslims are respectful of all religions and people, thats what I hear on the news all the time, bahhh baahhh bahh.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:39:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:40:29 PM EDT by unkempt1]

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Three weeks of torture with acid and cigaretts. That is about as evil as you can get. How long will it be before the good people of this world decide it is time to wipe out the evil scumbags like the ones in this story?




Hmmmmm, the "good" people of the world seem to have no problem with torture.
when the greatest country in the world says torture is A-ok, it rings hollow when we try to point the finger.
YMMV of course.



Yeah, my mileage does vary. Since when has the U.S. tortured someone with acid and cigarettes.






torture is torture. be it shocking them with batteries, beating them, or burning them with cigs and acid. (or turning them over to people/countries that do the same or worse.)
all equals the same....torture.
and again, A-Ok by CIC.

ETA: so, are you for torture or against it?

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:41:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:48:05 PM EDT by spartacus2002]

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
Three weeks of torture with acid and cigaretts. That is about as evil as you can get. How long will it be before the good people of this world decide it is time to wipe out the evil scumbags like the ones in this story?




Hmmmmm, the "good" people of the world seem to have no problem with torture.
when the greatest country in the world says torture is A-ok, it rings hollow when we try to point the finger.
YMMV of course.



Yeah, my mileage does vary. Since when has the U.S. tortured someone with acid and cigarettes.




does "waterboarding" ring a bell?

ETA: you can argue all day long over whether torture means "pain without harm" or "actual bodily harm" but that is the kind of legal gymnastics that government lawyers love and that both Joe Sixpack and Mohammed The Arab see right thru. In the eyes of the rest of the world, the US has lost the moral high ground when it comes to human rights and due process. But that's OK, keep masturbating while watching Jack Bauer on 24, telling yourself it's all in the name of "Freedom"
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:45:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 4:47:23 PM EDT by SST7]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.




Easily one of the most ignorant and retarded comments that I have seen - EVER.

Gee I teach my kids to pray when they wake up in the morning, when they eat a meal and when they go to bed at night. I had no idea that it is so HARMFUL...they must be in a constant religious fervor looking for witches to burn, hospitals to blow up, you know your run of the mill religious-type behavior.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:48:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



I think that is wishful thinking....It should say, Barbarians INSIDE the gate.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:49:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By ChrisLe:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Testimony from this grim underbelly, the immigrant banlieues — literally “places of banishment” — has fortified the elite’s view of young immigrants on the wrong side of the Paris ring road as “barbarians at the gate”.


Anyone see a trend here?
The French banish their immigrants to ghettos, treat them like second class citizens and then....?



LOL..Leave it to the apologist to find a way to justify the torture of innocents.....



Best way to stop terrorism is to find the root cause.
We all know what the root cause is, we just won't admit it. I'm not saying "kill all muslims", but you have to admit that Islam itself is a good portion of the problem. I have friends who are muslim, and I don't hesitate to tell them how I feel.

1) Immigrants should not be treated like 2nd class citizens. Either let them have full rights, or don't let them in at all.

2) Don't interfere in internal politics of regions we don't understand. Both sides have blood on their hands in all of these ancient disputes. No reason for us to even get involved.

Yes, there is a damn good reason for us to get involved in the ME. Our survival depends on a steady supply of oil at market prices. Hydrogen cells and solar panels will never supply us with the energy that we need, at the price we need. We need to think in cold-blooded strategic terms, and do what has to be done to survive. You can call me evil, but that's just the way it is. This point of yours is irrelavent anyway, because we're not discussing American involvement in the ME, we're talking about attacks on Jews in France.

3) Islam, as practiced as it is in the Middle East, is incompatible with modern society. Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.

Agreed. This is exactly why France should take a play right from the Islamic playbook - dhimmitude. It worked just fine for the Muslims when they sought to assimilate non-muslims, so the same should work for mainstream French culture.


Sorry if I don't buy into AR15.com's "Islam is a Religion of Evil and all who pracitice it should be killed."

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:58:35 PM EDT

Let me get this straight. The French feel compelled to give us advice about what countries to fight in OUR war on terror and nearly ANY issue being debated in the UN and they have this kind of insanity going on. They need to get their OWN house in order before they dispense any advice to others. Oh yea, Take a shower ya stinky bastards!
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 5:36:35 PM EDT by unkempt1]

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Let me get this straight. The French feel compelled to give us advice about what countries to fight in OUR war on terror and nearly ANY issue being debated in the UN and they have this kind of insanity going on. They need to get their OWN house in order before they dispense any advice to others. Oh yea, Take a shower ya stinky bastards!





shakes head. It's real easy to point those fingers isn't it? "Our" house isn't looking so great right now either.
We are fighting terrorists who attacked us for our freedom, If you ask the Bush administration. Then they "fight terror" by revoking freedoms, constitution protections and rights.
one thing for sure, even if we win the never ending war on terror, all citizens of this country lose this one.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:17:54 PM EDT
Hopefully they will raise taxes on cigarettes so that the torture will decrease.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 6:08:54 PM EDT by DaveS]

Originally Posted By SST7:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.




Easily one of the most ignorant and retarded comments that I have seen - EVER.

Gee I teach my kids to pray when they wake up in the morning, when they eat a meal and when they go to bed at night. I had no idea that it is so HARMFUL...they must be in a constant religious fervor looking for witches to burn, hospitals to blow up, you know your run of the mill religious-type behavior.



SST7,

You just proved that there is no gravity... your response just... sux.


Matthew Chapter 6:
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

I knew da-da-damn well what thedoctors308 meant as did anyone else with a passing 1st Grade Comprehension score.

Dave S

The above verses are in red for those that may fail to Comprehend who said them.

[JimMalone]Here endeth the lesson.[/JimMalone]


But I've got to ask... was thedoctors308 dropped on his head by the delivering doctor?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:04:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
In France, it has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do with being treated like second class citizens.
The French are some of the most arrogant bastards there are, and they want to keep the people they imported to wash dishes out of sight and mind.
The French have failed to assimilate their immigrants, and now they are reaping what they have sown.



You are a fucking idiot. Always will be.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 6:10:13 PM EDT
Wow.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:09:10 PM EDT
Is there anyone out there that can see similarities between the French and their "guest workers" and the US with our Illegals and proposed guest workers? How long before we have similar problems here in the US with our own guest workers?

Alvin
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:29:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlvinYorkII:
Is there anyone out there that can see similarities between the French and their "guest workers" and the US with our Illegals and proposed guest workers? How long before we have similar problems here in the US with our own guest workers?

Alvin



That is my point.
This is more of an immigration issue than it is an ROP issue.
Sure, it has something to do with the latter, but it has more to do with the former.
Allowing immigration, unchecked into your country is a very bad thing.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:07:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DaveS:

Originally Posted By SST7:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.




Easily one of the most ignorant and retarded comments that I have seen - EVER.

Gee I teach my kids to pray when they wake up in the morning, when they eat a meal and when they go to bed at night. I had no idea that it is so HARMFUL...they must be in a constant religious fervor looking for witches to burn, hospitals to blow up, you know your run of the mill religious-type behavior.


SST7,

You just proved that there is no gravity... your response just... sux.
Matthew Chapter 6:
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

I knew da-da-damn well what thedoctors308 meant as did anyone else with a passing 1st Grade Comprehension score.

Dave S

The above verses are in red for those that may fail to Comprehend who said them.
[JimMalone]Here endeth the lesson.[/JimMalone]



Thank you for your great enlightenment Pastor Dave S . Us poor unedumacated folks was lost till you showed us the light.

thedoctors308 made a stupid generalization and simply called him on it. All I did was give an example of the frequency of prayer in an average Christian household. I guess I will go tell my kids that some on the internet said they shouldn't waste their breath.

The above verses are in blue for those that may fail to Comprehend who said them.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:11:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SST7:

Originally Posted By DaveS:

Originally Posted By SST7:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Praying 5 times a day and all that, keeps people in a state of religious fervor. It's harmful.




Easily one of the most ignorant and retarded comments that I have seen - EVER.

Gee I teach my kids to pray when they wake up in the morning, when they eat a meal and when they go to bed at night. I had no idea that it is so HARMFUL...they must be in a constant religious fervor looking for witches to burn, hospitals to blow up, you know your run of the mill religious-type behavior.


SST7,

You just proved that there is no gravity... your response just... sux.
Matthew Chapter 6:
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

I knew da-da-damn well what thedoctors308 meant as did anyone else with a passing 1st Grade Comprehension score.

Dave S

The above verses are in red for those that may fail to Comprehend who said them.
[JimMalone]Here endeth the lesson.[/JimMalone]



Thank you for your great enlightenment Pastor Dave S . Us poor unedumacated folks was lost till you showed us the light.

thedoctors308 made a stupid generalization and simply called him on it. All I did was give an example of the frequency of prayer in an average Christian household. I guess I will go tell my kids that some on the internet said they shouldn't waste their breath.

The above verses are in blue for those that may fail to Comprehend who said them.



I'm a Christian bub.
I think that keeping people in a religious fervor is harmful, which is what mandatory prayer 5 times a day does.

Christianity has no such troubles.
The spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law.
Islam is a highly ritualistic religion.
Some sects hold that if you say your prayers wrong, you go to hell.
Do you see what my point is?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:32:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
It's called a honey trap.
It's the oldest trick in the book.
98% of AR15.com would fall for it, as evidenced by how they trip all over themselves to talk to any female poster. (Rachel_F)



The difference is that 98% of arfcom would be armed.

I recall someone's sig: "One day they may find me dead in a ditch. But BY GOD they'll find me in a pile of brass"



The key is to be on top of the pile of brass.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:50:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 11:51:35 PM EDT by SST7]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I'm a Christian bub. Great I don't know you - I just took your comment to be very generalized and somewhat anti-religous.

I think that keeping people in a religious fervor is harmful, which is what mandatory prayer 5 times a day does. I understand your statement, but don't necessarily agree with it - I still think it is very generalized. I think that it depends on the religion and its goals and/or agenda. If you look at the day of Pentecost, I would say that those present were in a religious fervor. The most important factors are a person's actions and intent. Someone who prays, exercises faith, does good works, and has a pure heart will be doing the Lord's will regardless of their religion. (I am not downplaying the role of the Savior or the need to follow Him)
Christianity has no such troubles. In general I agree, but there are some ridiculous examples out there, I.E. Pastor Fred? (The anti-military idiot and his followers) Don't get me wrong. I know that militant Islam is a threat to the whole world.

The spirit of the law is more important than the letter of the law. Agreed.

Islam is a highly ritualistic religion. Agreed.

Some sects hold that if you say your prayers wrong, you go to hell.

Do you see what my point is? Yes. Thank you for the clarification.

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