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Posted: 5/14/2004 8:11:39 AM EST
Just found this article in the local newspaper. Interesting comments by a US federal attorney in the last paragraph, but nothing most MG guys don't already know.

Link: www.postgazette.com/breaking/20040514militiap5.asp

Full Text:


Friday, May 14, 2004

Associated Press

Three more northwestern Pennsylvania men were indicted yesterday on charges they owned illegal homemade machine guns, while two self-proclaimed leaders of militias have been indicted on more charges of owning the machine guns.

Chester Morrell, Daniel Morrell and Terrance Willaman were each charged with violating federal firearms laws for allegedly owning Sten guns — easily reproduced 9mm machine guns originally developed by the British in World War II.

The indictments stem from federal investigations of George Bilunka, 59, of Atlantic, and Darrell Sivik, 55, of Meadville, who allegedly sold one of the illegally made machine guns to an undercover agent for $300 in February.

Federal prosecutors said Sivik, a gunsmith who claims to be the leader of the Braveheart Militia, made the machine gun allegedly sold to the agent. He has not been charged with making the machine guns the other men allegedly owned.

Bilunka, who claims to be the head of a militia called the Christian American Patriots Survivalists, and Sivik had both been indicted on charges of allegedly owning and selling the Sten gun.

This week, Bilunka was also charged with owning another Sten gun, a modified SKS carbine rifle — the precursor to the AK-47 — and explosives, while Sivik was charged with giving Bilunka another homemade machine gun and owning 10 more machine guns, most of them Sten guns.

Attorneys for Bilunka and Sivik did not return phone calls for comment to The Associated Press.

Phone numbers for Chester Morrell, 59, or Daniel Morrell, 33, both of Conneaut Lake, could not be determined. Federal prosecutors said it was unclear if the two men were related.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Willaman said he knew both Bilunka and Sivik and had bought a kit to make one of the Sten guns from Sivik. Willaman, 52, an engineering consultant from Cochranton, claimed it wasn’t illegal to own a kit, which can be bought in gun magazines, but it is illegal only to make a machine gun, which he said he did.

Willaman, however, said he would fight the charges and claims he was harassed by federal agents.

Federal authorities agreed that it was typically not illegal to own the kits, which lack all of the parts needed for a machine gun. But machine guns can only be made — and sold — by federally licensed manufacturers, said Assistant U.S. Attorney Paul Brysh.


Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:18:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
The indictments stem from federal investigations of George Bilunka, 59, of Atlantic, and Darrell Sivik, 55, of Meadville, who allegedly sold one of the illegally made machine guns to an undercover agent for $300 in February.



What a dipshit. He could own all the 'illegal' MGs he likes and I wouldn't care. But when you try to sell them to undercover agents, you earn the dumbass of the year award.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:19:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:20:03 AM EST by Tanker06]

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Willaman, 52, an engineering consultant from Cochranton, claimed it wasn’t illegal to own a kit, which can be bought in gun magazines, but it is illegal only to make a machine gun, which he said he did.
Willaman, however, said he would fight the charges....


Now, I know that I'm preaching to the choir here, but WTF is up with these people who go out,
manufacture illegal automatic weapons, sell them to their "buddies," then claim "harrassment"
when they're busted. Their "buddy" was really a Fed.

Then to add fuel to the fire of insult, admit to the press that you did it, but are naive
enough to think that you can fight it in court?

Just like the idiots that take pics & videos of themselves doing illegal shit - if you're going to do
something illegal, don't take pics, or don't sell the illegal shit!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:40:34 AM EST
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?
FWIW, the only mg's i've ever handled were in the military and most people there know far less than the average arfcommer about guns. It just doesn't add up.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:47:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:51:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people



If they are law-abiding, I wouldn't give a fuck. from what i gather, most militias aren't much more than a group of middle aged men wearing beards and slight pot-bellies that get together to bitch about what's wrong with the world on any given day, not the tinfoil hat type that ate a bit too much paste as a kid.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:11:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people



If they are law-abiding, I wouldn't give a fuck. from what i gather, most militias aren't much more than a group of middle aged men wearing beards and slight pot-bellies that get together to bitch about what's wrong with the world on any given day, not the tinfoil hat type that ate a bit too much paste as a kid.



Yup.

Besides, 'militia' is just a catch phrase used by the media to make gunowners sound scarier. Just like 'assault' weapon, 'survivalist', 'arsenal', 'bullet hose', 'cop killer bullets', etc... If you own two guns and have a buddy that owns two guns, they probably consider you a 'militia' member.

I've got no problem with lawful civilians owning MGs.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:23:04 AM EST
Holy crap. I was just going to call these folks up to send them an FFL for a customer transfer. Something tells me I don't want to have my FFL laying around in their shop.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:25:14 AM EST
Ahhh But the question is. Are they really illegal?
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=243719
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:29:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
The indictments stem from federal investigations of George Bilunka, 59, of Atlantic, and Darrell Sivik, 55, of Meadville, who allegedly sold one of the illegally made machine guns to an undercover agent for $300 in February.



What a dipshit. He could own all the 'illegal' MGs he likes and I wouldn't care. But when you try to sell them to undercover agents, you earn the dumbass of the year award.



You haven't dealt with undercover feds. They first try to become your best friend, gain your trust, then get to you do illegal things.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:33:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people



Betcha $5 that they already do! As well as the KKK, Black Panthers and possibly a few Islamic Sleeper cells. You see it isn't illeagal to own a "Machine Gun", you just have to pay an extra $200.

Also, as to the Federal Prosecutor's statements, I thought that as of 1986 it was illegal for anyone to manufacture a new machine gun unless it was for law enforcement or the military.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:43:02 AM EST

This week, Bilunka was also charged with owning another Sten gun, a modified SKS carbine rifle — the precursor to the AK-47...


WTF, over?
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:44:27 AM EST
Quote:

"This week, Bilunka was also charged with owning another Sten gun, a modified SKS carbine rifle — the precursor to the AK-47 —"


Wow--how can I make a Sten gun out of a SKS that will someday become an AK-47? They must be really good gunsmiths.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:45:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people



Betcha $5 that they already do! As well as the KKK, Black Panthers and possibly a few Islamic Sleeper cells. You see it isn't illeagal to own a "Machine Gun", you just have to pay an extra $200.

Also, as to the Federal Prosecutor's statements, I thought that as of 1986 it was illegal for anyone to manufacture a new machine gun unless it was for law enforcement or the military.



Questionable it may be but it may not be.
one case
United States v. Rock Island Armory, Inc

Both deal with possesion of machineguns and making transfering machineguns.

Both of these read like possession of an unregistered MG is not illegal because the government won't allow you to take the steps nessesary to register and pay the tax, which are nessesary to do to posses them

. Just read them they are interesting as hell.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:53:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:
would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's



Yes, yes I would. In fact I hope they do!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:00:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mrrogers1:

Originally Posted By lokt:
WHY is does this government think a law-abiding citizen having his own unregistered MG is a bad thing?



I'm not pro-government control crazy or anything but really, would you want your "Militia" neighbors to have a cache of homemade MG's? But then again, I don't know any "Christian American Patriots Survivalists or Braveheart Militia" members so they might be good people



Yes. I encourage everyone to own guns of all types. I think it would make for a much more polite society at the least.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:22:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
The indictments stem from federal investigations of George Bilunka, 59, of Atlantic, and Darrell Sivik, 55, of Meadville, who allegedly sold one of the illegally made machine guns to an undercover agent for $300 in February.



What a dipshit. He could own all the 'illegal' MGs he likes and I wouldn't care. But when you try to sell them to undercover agents, you earn the dumbass of the year award.



You haven't dealt with undercover feds. They first try to become your best friend, gain your trust, then get to you do illegal things.



I have no friends, but I do like you a lot. You want to hang out some time? I've got some tannerite.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:41:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
You haven't dealt with undercover feds. They first try to become your best friend, gain your trust, then get to you do illegal things.



Please call me. That Pre81 DIAS you sold me isn't working correctly.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:47:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
The indictments stem from federal investigations of George Bilunka, 59, of Atlantic, and Darrell Sivik, 55, of Meadville, who allegedly sold one of the illegally made machine guns to an undercover agent for $300 in February.



What a dipshit. He could own all the 'illegal' MGs he likes and I wouldn't care. But when you try to sell them to undercover agents, you earn the dumbass of the year award.



You haven't dealt with undercover feds. They first try to become your best friend, gain your trust, then get to you do illegal things.




Just ask Randy Weaver...


Link Posted: 5/14/2004 3:21:42 PM EST
[ In an interview with The Associated Press, Willaman said he knew both Bilunka and Sivik and had bought a kit to make one of the Sten guns from Sivik. Willaman, 52, an engineering consultant from Cochranton, claimed it wasn’t illegal to own a kit, which can be bought in gun magazines, but it is illegal only to make a machine gun, which he said he did. ]

This statement from the militia brain trust says it all !
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