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Posted: 11/12/2007 4:28:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2007 4:47:04 AM EDT by SINGLE_SHOT]
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:33:32 AM EDT
Noone likes illegals. Good for him. Sorry I could not help it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:41:19 AM EDT
Ill start. They illegally come into our country on purpose avoiding the proper paperwork and other duties involved with legally becoming a citizen. When here they use their children born across the border as a reason too be here. In most cases they do not care to learn the language of my country either. When here they also do other things that are against the law just to get by with daily life, such as stealing SS#'s and other identification.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:45:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal and legal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


I may get flamed, or maybe not, but I never really felt as though I hated Illegal Immagrants, but hate illegal immagration. I try to wait and decide if I hate an individual until after I've met them.

As for real effects, all I know is what I've heard and seen. For a paper, you will need some cold hard facts to back any position you take. But one statistic you don't need is that one problem many have is the attack on our national pride and sovereignty. Without enforced borders and immigration law, then who are we?

Do you have to discuss all facets or can you focus on one such as economic, or criminal impact? You should get a lot of info on both here, just make sure what you use, if anything, is backed by a cite and stats.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:46:11 AM EDT
Watch this

Come back and tell us what you learned.

Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:47:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal and legal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


I may get flamed, or maybe not, but I never really felt as though I hated Illegal Immagrants, but hate illegal immagration. I try to wait and decide if I hate an individual until after I've met them.

As for real effects, all I know is what I've heard and seen. For a paper, you will need some cold hard facts to back any position you take. But one statistic you don't need is that one problem many have is the attack on our national pride and sovereignty. Without enforced borders and immigration law, then who are we?

Do you have to discuss all facets or can you focus on one such as economic, or criminal impact? You should get a lot of info on both here, just make sure what you use, if anything, is backed by a cite and stats.


The topic is Control of illegal immigrants. But i need to make a thesis and base it off of that. Its due on the 28th
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:52:31 AM EDT
Depending on what level you're writing for, be prepared to present a balanced argument. Essentially, while illegal immigration has the negative effects of X, Y and Z (e.g. enclavism, fuzzing of political borders and the burden on education for non-English speakers) - there are also the benefits of R, S and T. (economic benefits, mostly.)

Link Posted: 11/12/2007 4:54:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal and legal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


I may get flamed, or maybe not, but I never really felt as though I hated Illegal Immagrants, but hate illegal immagration. I try to wait and decide if I hate an individual until after I've met them.

As for real effects, all I know is what I've heard and seen. For a paper, you will need some cold hard facts to back any position you take. But one statistic you don't need is that one problem many have is the attack on our national pride and sovereignty. Without enforced borders and immigration law, then who are we?

Do you have to discuss all facets or can you focus on one such as economic, or criminal impact? You should get a lot of info on both here, just make sure what you use, if anything, is backed by a cite and stats.


The topic is Control of illegal immigrants. But i need to make a thesis and base it off of that. Its due on the 28th


Sounds like you are able to narrow it to a certain aspect. If it were me, I would avoid the area of broad economic impact. WAY too much to cover in the amount of time you have adequately. I'd go with rise in criminal activity. It's a hot button, but find stats and info on the increase in criminal activity where illegals go to.

If you want more info coming in here, I'd change the title to "Why is illegal immigration bad", but put why you ask above so you don't get flamed.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 5:19:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2007 5:21:25 AM EDT by civprod]

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal and legal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


I may get flamed, or maybe not, but I never really felt as though I hated Illegal Immagrants, but hate illegal immagration. I try to wait and decide if I hate an individual until after I've met them.

As for real effects, all I know is what I've heard and seen. For a paper, you will need some cold hard facts to back any position you take. But one statistic you don't need is that one problem many have is the attack on our national pride and sovereignty. Without enforced borders and immigration law, then who are we?

Do you have to discuss all facets or can you focus on one such as economic, or criminal impact? You should get a lot of info on both here, just make sure what you use, if anything, is backed by a cite and stats.


The topic is Control of illegal immigrants. But i need to make a thesis and base it off of that. Its due on the 28th


How can you control a group that gets in the country illegally, has no real ties to the area where they settle many times, typically has no valid form of identification (and sometimes uses fake id's and social security numbers), and know that typically the worst thing that will happen is that they will get deported and just have to cross the border again.

ETA: I guess the amnesty and worker visa programs would be one way to "control" them since if they wanted to qualify for the program they would have to provide information to the government. However, verifying the information that they provided is going to be a challenge. Plus, there are all the negatives associated with any amnesty plan.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 5:39:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal and legal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


I may get flamed, or maybe not, but I never really felt as though I hated Illegal Immagrants, but hate illegal immagration. I try to wait and decide if I hate an individual until after I've met them.

As for real effects, all I know is what I've heard and seen. For a paper, you will need some cold hard facts to back any position you take. But one statistic you don't need is that one problem many have is the attack on our national pride and sovereignty. Without enforced borders and immigration law, then who are we?

Do you have to discuss all facets or can you focus on one such as economic, or criminal impact? You should get a lot of info on both here, just make sure what you use, if anything, is backed by a cite and stats.


The topic is Control of illegal immigrants. But i need to make a thesis and base it off of that. Its due on the 28th


Sounds like you are able to narrow it to a certain aspect. If it were me, I would avoid the area of broad economic impact. WAY too much to cover in the amount of time you have adequately. I'd go with rise in criminal activity. It's a hot button, but find stats and info on the increase in criminal activity where illegals go to.

If you want more info coming in here, I'd change the title to "Why is illegal immigration bad", but put why you ask above so you don't get flamed.


I wouldn't take the position of them brining in loads of crime (even though they do) because anyone who doesn't agree with you (just about every teacher) will write off any argument that you make as racist without bothering to look at it. They do bring in crime, and at a higher percentage than any other group, but only address that issue if you think that the teacher will like it. Talk about economic problems instead. They only pay sales tax, they send their anchor babies to school on taxpayers dime. They use the emergency room for any problem without paying, so hospitals put that debt on paying customers (us). They don't want to integrate to any standard and want to shape our society to theirs (look at Mexico, a shithole). This divides the nation by making people learn different languages (I wont learn Spanish so that Paco who is here illegally can do business with me when I can work with a english speaking American who pays taxes) and forcing people to accept any practice Illegals engage in if they want to be politically correct. They send money back to Mexico, talking it out of circulation in America, hurting our economy. Deportation is expensive, and incarcerating them is even more so. Libs love to rant on and on about how ungrateful we are that they make our lettuce for cheap, but they never look at schools, prisons or hospitals to see the whole cost. Oklahoma did and is cracking down on illegals with the harshest laws even written about illegal immigrants.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 5:42:00 AM EDT
I would change the thread title.

You are asking about illegal aliens.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 5:53:27 AM EDT
I'll just add a short comment about my personal observations regarding illegal immigration from [cough] south of the border:

They come to the US to escape their own shithole country, then immediately begin to transform their new neighborhood into a slum-like barrio.

I've seen it over and over here in Houston. EVERY SINGLE neighborhood that becomes predominantly Hispanic turns into a slum. Every. One.


Moral of the story - there is no effort at all to integrate into AMERICAN society.

CMOS
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 5:57:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
I'll just add a short comment about my personal observations regarding illegal immigration from [cough] south of the border:

They come to the US to escape their own shithole country, then immediately begin to transform their new neighborhood into a slum-like barrio.

I've seen it over and over here in Houston. EVERY SINGLE neighborhood that becomes predominantly Hispanic turns into a slum. Every. One.


Moral of the story - there is no effort at all to integrate into AMERICAN society.

CMOS


I'm from Houston and that is as true as it gets.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 6:18:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By uncle_ho:

Originally Posted By CMOS:
I'll just add a short comment about my personal observations regarding illegal immigration from [cough] south of the border:

They come to the US to escape their own shithole country, then immediately begin to transform their new neighborhood into a slum-like barrio.

I've seen it over and over here in Houston. EVERY SINGLE neighborhood that becomes predominantly Hispanic turns into a slum. Every. One.


Moral of the story - there is no effort at all to integrate into AMERICAN society.

CMOS


I'm from Houston and that is as true as it gets.


America lacks a sense of direction and doesnt have a nationalistic idealogy for people to identify with.

Every group (but not every individual) that moves to the US remains ethnocentric. Look at the Irish and Italians and Ashkenazi (European Jews).

People stick with their own kind. It's just that the illegal Mexican kind tends to jack up violent crime rates because along with the millions of "regular people" there are hundreds of thousands of violent criminals that mix in with them and then get protected and hidden by them from American law enforcement.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 6:19:32 AM EDT
All lines of my family trace back to immigrants from Europe. Without immigration, most of us would not be here.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 6:22:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
All lines of my family trace back to immigrants from Europe. Without legal immigration, most of us would not be here.
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 9:01:20 AM EDT
For a ton of info, you can go to CIS.org
Link Posted: 11/12/2007 3:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2007 3:59:00 PM EDT by BobCole]
From my perspective on illegals:

1) They bring disease that has been long dormant or knocked out in the US. TB, for starters. Ditto for their kids in public schools. How many GD ESL teachers do we need to hire, for gods sakes????!!!!!!

2) They don't care about this country (USA) as they know they're illegal & they still long for their "mother country".

3) They DO in fact drive down wages for US citizens.

4) They often live in multiple numbers in small apartments/rental houses, destroying the property. It's like having an Animal House frat group there.

5) They don't have car insurance. Guess who suffers when they get drunk & hit someone? They also have a much higher rate of DUI in their % versus the legal population.

6) They take construction jobs away from folks who would in fact benefit from those jobs, i.e. felons, for example.

7) They don't have health insurance so they clog up the emergency room at a hospital & then skip out on the bill. Guess who ends up eating their share of the costs?

8) They commit gross crimes & then simply skip back to may-he-co for a bit & then pop up somewhere else.

I could go on & on & on, but this will do for a start, IMO.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 9:43:11 AM EDT
People need to stop equating actions against illegals with actions against immigrants in general.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 9:49:05 AM EDT
Disease

Rape

Murder

Robb­ery

Uninsured/unsafe drivers

A HUGE language barrier

Ghettos

Lower Property Value

Muggings

Fewer jobs for honest, skilled workers

Over population due to offspring


...need I go on?
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 10:07:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
From my perspective on illegals:

1) They bring disease that has been long dormant or knocked out in the US. TB, for starters. Ditto for their kids in public schools. How many GD ESL teachers do we need to hire, for gods sakes????!!!!!!

2) They don't care about this country (USA) as they know they're illegal & they still long for their "mother country".

3) They DO in fact drive down wages for US citizens.

4) They often live in multiple numbers in small apartments/rental houses, destroying the property. It's like having an Animal House frat group there.

5) They don't have car insurance. Guess who suffers when they get drunk & hit someone? They also have a much higher rate of DUI in their % versus the legal population.

6) They take construction jobs away from folks who would in fact benefit from those jobs, i.e. felons, for example.

7) They don't have health insurance so they clog up the emergency room at a hospital & then skip out on the bill. Guess who ends up eating their share of the costs?

8) They commit gross crimes & then simply skip back to may-he-co for a bit & then pop up somewhere else.

I could go on & on & on, but this will do for a start, IMO.


+1
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 10:11:55 AM EDT
As illegals, they cannot own guns. Therefore they can't be part of our little club here.
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 2:03:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hedonist:
As illegals, they cannot own guns.







Sure would come as a surprise to their murder victims.................

(I'm sure you meant legally own them. )
Link Posted: 11/13/2007 7:35:39 PM EDT
A Day Without Illegal Immigrants

If you asked 10 people what they thought were the major problems or threats facing America today, you'd probably get 15 different answers - which goes to show there are MANY domestic problems that American think need to be urgently addressed: Crime, threats of terrorism, shortages and high costs in the health-care system, overcrowded and underperforming schools, skyrocketting federal and state spending, high taxes, low wages... the list can go on.

Is there one issue though that is entwined with nearly all these challenges facing America today? Of course you know the answer: Illegal Immigration. Is illegal immigration the only cause of these problems? Of course not, but to deny the enormous significance of illegal immigration in so many of America's domestic ills is to simply deny facts and reality.

Crime - The evidence is clear and indisputable on this, illegal immigrants are responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime throughout this country and especially so in the Southwest states. Though they make up "only" about 5% of Arizona state population, almost 15% of prisoners in the Arizona state prisons are illegal immigrants (ref). Identity theft is rampant in border states as is car thefts - again directly related to the illegal immigrant population in those states. Across the nation, 29% of federal prisoners are immigrants with about 17% being illegal immigrants (ref). Illegals commit 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of car thefts(ref). Ninety-five percent of outstanding warrants for homicide and almost two-thirds of fugitive felony warrants in Los Angeles are for illegal immigrants(ref). In many major cities, illegal immigrants comprise an overly disproportionate number of gang members and drug traffickers. Are ALL illegal aliens gang-members, drug-dealers or violent felons? No, but for "only" representing about 5% of this country's population, illegal immigrants comprise a far greater proportion of dangerous criminals preying on American citizens than their numbers represent.

Illegal immigrants are not all here just to "work the jobs that Americans don't want" - unless you believe drug-dealing, gangbanging, carjacking, burglary, sexual-assault, home-invasions, identity-theft, vandalism and drive-by-shootings should be included among those "jobs that Americans don't want". The massive amount of manhours devoted by local law enforcement to investigating crimes committed by illegal immigrants coupled with the massive amount of personal pain and suffering and property damage and loss inflicted on American citizens by illegal immigrant criminals seems to be completely ignored in any discussion on illegal immigration or in pious projections of what it would REALLY be like if we truly had "A Day Without Illegal Immigrants". Such a day would clearly be a day with far less violent crime, drug-dealing and property loss.

Terrorism - Is there anyone who doesn't believe that if 5-10,000 illegal immigrants can cross our border EVERY DAY (which they do), then Al Qaeda can too? Border Security is National Security, plain and simple. No one argues that we should have stronger border security - but then why is our Border Patrol STILL so undermanned, underequipped and overstretched almost five years after 9-11? Why are there still thousands of people who have no IDs and no criminal background-checks streaming across our border with no end in sight? How can we continue to haggle over "guest-worker" visas when we continue to find in our southwestern border areas hard, physical evidence of Mideastern Muslims illegally entering our country from Mexico - so much so that there's actually one region of desert in Arizona known as "Arab Road" for being so commonly traveled by Arab illegal aliens (ref).

Why is it that anyone who advocates strengthening our border fences called "racist" and anyone who volunteers to actually HELP our Border Patrol agents denigrated as "vigilantes" even by our own President? The answer is that illegal immigrants and their advocates have successfully taken control of the National Security debate and have shamefully stifled nearly all efforts to protect our nation at our "last line" of national defense, namely our nation's borders.

Medical Costs - Hospitals and urgent care centers are required by law to provide emergency medical care to any and all illegal immigrants regardless of ability to pay. With millions of illegal immigrants flooding into our country in the last ten to fifteen years, America's medical centers have likewise been flooded to over-capacity with tens of thousands of illegal immigrants who are entitled to emergency care, surgery, exams and a myriad of other tests and treatments, the bills for which they simply walk away from leaving hospitals to absorb the costs or pass them on to American taxpayers. Between 1993 and 2003, 60 California hospitals closed because half their services became unpaid - and dozens more are on the verge of closing due to the costs of treating illegal immigrants. For example, the average cost of delivering a baby without complication in America goes from about $8,000 to $14,000 (vaginal vs c-section). Multiply that by the approximate 300,000 new "anchor babies" born each year to illegal immigrants - the costs (often unpaid) become astronomical. Most recently, another nearly two dozen private hospitals in Los Angeles and Orange counties, accounting for up to 15% of beds in the region, are in dire financial straits and in danger of bankruptcy or closure mainly because of the massive amount of "uninsured and low-income patients" - mostly illegal aliens, (ref}. Then there's the costs due to diseases brought in and spread by illegal immigrants. According to an article in 'Journal Of American Physicans and Surgeons', Spring 2005, "...many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease... Many illegals who cross our borders have tuberculosis... Until recently MDR-TB (multidrug-resistant tuberculosis) was endemic in Mexico... Each illegal with MDR-TB coughs and infects 10-30 people who will not show symptoms immediately. Latent disease explodes later..." (ref)

Legal immigrants must pay for and pass medical tests and screenings to immigrate here to show they are free of diseases such as tuberculosis. Illegal immigrants simply ignore those requirements we put in place as a nation to protect our people from such diseases - and then have the nerve to march and DEMAND we accept them? The fact that such demands are openly made by illegal immigrants is only eclipsed in its amazement by the fact that such demands are actually given credibility by elected officials who purport to represent American citizens.

Public Schools - Just as hospitals are required to provide vital health-care to all illegal immigrants, public schools are required to provide K-12 education to all children of illegal immigrants. The vast majority of illegal immigrants do not speak English in the home and do not teach English to their young children. The result is millions of children enter public schools woefully deficient in basic English. This puts a strain on teachers who must cope with children who understand little of what is said, read or written in class by taking time and attention away from the rest of the class to spend inordinate amounts of time remediating barely-literate students, even at higher grade levels. The extra costs required in educating non-English speaking students are not in proportion to the numbers of such students in schools, and yet such expenditures are required by law. In Arizona for example, the state legislature was actually threatened with being forced to come up with over $20 million in fines imposed by a judge on top of the estimated $12-15 million earmarked just for educating 154,000 non-English speaking children (most of which are of illegal immigrants)(ref). All in all, Arizona spends $810 million annually just to educate mostly illegal immigrants and their children. In California it's even worse: $7.7 billion a year is spent on educating the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body (ref). Many other states are also massively overburdened with the costs of educating children of illegal immigrants.

To make matters even worse, much of these billions in extra spending for illegal immigrants is futile - absenteeism is extremely high among children of illegal immigrants. Teachers report illegal alien children tend to have, at best, sporadic attendance even at the youngest ages. Children are often shuttled between guardians, aunts, grandparents, neighbors and are truly just as "migratory" in their residency as their parents. Teachers very commonly report children of illegals not being in class for weeks or months at a time, only to suddenly re-appear in class one day in mid-semester and having to "start over" with those students who may only attend for a few more weeks or months and then be gone again. The disturbances to the classroom, the distractions to the teachers and the instability in the school as whole significantly diminishes the quaility of education for all the kids, not just illegal immigrants. Educating children who barely speak the language and who have no regular attendance is not just difficult - it's virtually impossible. Of course this sporadic attendance is only exasperated when "Immigrant Leaders" call for school walk-outs and boycotts and urge students to march in the streets rather than stay in school.

Gov't Spending - As noted, gov't spending on illegal immigrants is massively disproportionate to their population numbers. For example, the state of Texas alone spends over $4.7 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration of illegal immigrants which number about 1.2 million or about 6% of Texas' population. According to a recent analysis of Census Bureau data by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, for Texas "...even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to more than $3.7 billion per year" (ref). In other words, even AFTER factoring the supposed "benefit" of illegal immigrants to the Texas economy, the people of Texas pay over $3,000 a year for every single illegal immigrant including children in their state. Likewise, the people of California pay $10.5 billion/yr total or over $4,500 a year for every illegal immigrant in that state. The people of Florida pay about $1.8 billion/yr total or $2,600 a year for every illegal immigrant in that state. Ohio spends $224 million/yr or about $5,600 per year per illegal immigrant in that state. Illinois spends $2.3 billion/yr or about $5,400 per year per illegal immigrant in that state. New York spends $3.5 billion/yr or about $7,100 per year per illegal immigrant. And "legalizing" them will not make these problems go away and will actually make it worse because that will only increase their eligibility for even MORE state and federal welfare spending while we would see virtually NO increase in income-tax revenue from them since they are mostly of such low income that they would pay basically no income tax at all anyway (and may even get MORE back due to them all suddenly being eligible to collect "earned income tax credits"). Research more on the the impact of illegal immigration on any state individually here.

State after state after state, the direct costs of illegal immigrants in terms of education, medical care, incarceration FAR outweigh their supposed "benefits" in cheap labor, which itself is actually another COST to Americans in that cheap illegal labor depresses wages for basic-skills jobs all across the country. Entry-level and basic-skills wages are kept low by the illegal immigrants who work undercut wages for Americans who USED to work in those jobs before millions of illegal, under-the-table, low-wage workers who are not bound by minimum-wage laws or union contracts.

And then are other indirect cost to citizens from illegal immigrants from:
* skyrocketting property crimes,
* motor-vehicle thefts,
* uninsured motor-vehicle accidents,
* DUIs,
* higher insurance premiums,
* higher medical premiums,
* more communicable diseases,
* greater drug trafficking,
* neighborhood blight,
* thousands of assaults, muggings, robberies, rapes and murders each year...

The list goes on and on. Lettuce doesn't look so cheap when you factor in all these "hidden" costs paid by Americans because of illegal immigrants.

Bottomline - For nearly all important domestic problems facing America, we find illegal immigration being not just caught up and entwined in that problem but also being an exacerbating factor in that problem. So the disengenuous nonsense and outright lies perpetrated by "immigrant-rights" fools who grovel at the feet of illegal aliens, begging that we allow them to keep breaking our laws, siphoning off BILLIONS from every state and packing our prisons and hospitals until we collapse from their weight need to be slapped down with facts and the truth - illegal immigrants are NOT beneficial to America, they are a drain on our state and federal budgets, a danger to our nation's health-care system, a source of excessive and disproportionate crime rates and a major obstacle to providing effective and necessary security at our nation's borders.

A Day Without An Illegal Immigrant? I'd love it. In fact, make it all year!
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 6:26:43 AM EDT
Bump for the OP.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 6:36:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 6:46:28 AM EDT
I can't say anything remotely as well as The_Macallan has and I agree with everything he says on this topic so I'll just bump the thread and say read and reread his and the other's posts.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 6:49:32 AM EDT
Securing the boarder has little to do with stopping illegal immigration - but would help illegal smuggling a lot. A good part (if not the majority) of illegal immigration stems from overstaying visa rather than illegal crossings.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 7:01:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Securing the boarder has little to do with stopping illegal immigration - but would help illegal smuggling a lot. A good part (if not the majority) of illegal immigration stems from overstaying visa rather than illegal crossings.


You're wrong. Saying that securing the border won't affect illegal immigration is like saying the great wall of China didn't stop their invaders or the double wall fence built in Cali didn't stop it along that area.

The fence bill that Congress passed and Bush signed called for a double layer fence with a high speed border patrol road in between. This fence, with electronic surveillance and more border patrol posts, most certainly would have seriously impacted illegal immigration. Coupled with employer sanctions we could all but end it in a year.
Link Posted: 11/14/2007 10:15:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 3rdpig:

Originally Posted By mousehunter:
Securing the boarder has little to do with stopping illegal immigration - but would help illegal smuggling a lot. A good part (if not the majority) of illegal immigration stems from overstaying visa rather than illegal crossings.


You're wrong. Saying that securing the border won't affect illegal immigration is like saying the great wall of China didn't stop their invaders or the double wall fence built in Cali didn't stop it along that area.

The fence bill that Congress passed and Bush signed called for a double layer fence with a high speed border patrol road in between. This fence, with electronic surveillance and more border patrol posts, most certainly would have seriously impacted illegal immigration. Coupled with employer sanctions we could all but end it in a year.


Never wrk for the .gov.

makes too much sense
Link Posted: 11/25/2007 9:01:41 PM EDT
anyone else?
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 1:17:44 AM EDT
sucks
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 1:20:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.

SS


ETA I have to write a paper on illegal Immigrants


Schools, hospitals, medical care, taxes, crime...

and on and on. They don't pay in, at the rate they take. IMO.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 2:40:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2007 2:41:05 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.


Crowded jails
Crowded ER's
Crowded schools
Crowded freeways
Bankrupt hospitals
DUI deaths
gang deaths
Identity Theft
High housing costs
High auto insurance costs

Make 40 million uninsured people dissappear and things would be much better in this country, especially in the desert southwest.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 2:44:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2007 2:48:21 AM EDT by 4xDawn]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.


Crowded jails
Crowded ER's
Crowded schools
Crowded freeways
Bankrupt hospitals
DUI deaths
gang deaths
Identity Theft
High housing costs
High auto insurance costs

Make 40 million uninsured people dissappear and things would be much better in this country, especially in the desert southwest.


This man is way more articulate then I am.


+1,000,000

eta: Maybe you people that don't get it, need to actually LIVE in an affected area. Good god. Dare you to have the best insurance available, pay for it, then take your child to an ER here.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 2:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 4xDawn:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.


Crowded jails
Crowded ER's
Crowded schools
Crowded freeways
Bankrupt hospitals
DUI deaths
gang deaths
Identity Theft
High housing costs
High auto insurance costs

Make 40 million uninsured people dissappear and things would be much better in this country, especially in the desert southwest.


This man is way more articulate then I am.


+1,000,000

eta: Maybe you people that don't get it, need to actually LIVE in an affected area.


I spent a couple weeks in the Midwest last month. People there have no idea of the scope of the problem.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 3:20:30 AM EDT
how bout here they get in state tuition and financial aid ahead of legal US residents. Actually knew a guy who legally changed his last name from Saxon to Griego just to get financial aid. It worked. Get benifits without paying into the system driving up costs. money spent on signage changing signs to spanish and english becuse they don't FEEL the need to assimilate to the culture they choose to move to. Apparently we should spend our time learning spanish to make them FEEL better. They sneak over drop an anchor and they think they should be able to stay becuase now their anchor baby is a US citizen. Got a few friends that were immigrants and earned their citizenship the right way and are not tooo happy the Illegals trying to screw the system.
Link Posted: 12/6/2007 3:35:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2007 6:19:29 AM EDT by M4]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By 4xDawn:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SINGLE_SHOT:
I understand that noone likes illegal immigrants but, what are the real effects of illegal immigrants to the united states.


Crowded jails
Crowded ER's
Crowded schools
Crowded freeways
Bankrupt hospitals
DUI deaths
gang deaths
Identity Theft
High housing costs
High auto insurance costs

Make 40 million uninsured people dissappear and things would be much better in this country, especially in the desert southwest.


This man is way more articulate then I am.


+1,000,000

eta: Maybe you people that don't get it, need to actually LIVE in an affected area.


I spent a couple weeks in the Midwest last month. People there have no idea of the scope of the problem.


There's no excuse for ignorance on this subject, no matter where you live.

Illegals MURDER more Americans every year than the amount who died on 09/11.

Need a better reason to kick them the fuck out?

At what point in all this does MEXICO feel any shame what so ever? They created this problem, but contrary to the normal feeling of shame any responsible, functional nation would have, they instead blame U.S. IMMIGRATION LAW as the problem.

No, Mexico, we are NOT your fucking welfare state to the NORTH. TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN, YOU'RE A DISGUSTING DISGRACE AND AN INTERNATIONAL EMBARRASSMNET.

Your nation is UNWORTHY of respect. Period. Forgive us here in America if we're not interested in RUINING generations of hard work and success, by being massively polluted with the "standards" you're forcing upon us by the TENS OF MILLIONS. Forgive me if Americas previous generations created an absolutely beautiful Nation that I'm not interested in seeing your people CRAP UP with this fictional sense of entitlement.

Poverty, crime, corruption, ghettos, pollution, gangs...it's business as usual in Mexico...and that is EXACTLY the standards most of them keep once in the U.S.

This is by no means the same situation as the wave of FUNCTIONAL immigrants that came to Ellis Island. This wave is here to take whatever they can and leave the entire country worse than they found it.

IT'S TIME TO AGGRESSIVELY CONDEMN MEXICO. PERIOD.
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