Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 7/22/2008 8:13:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 8:15:33 AM EDT by Dawgsquat]
Illegal immigrant faces murder charge in Ozark County


GAINESVILLE, Mo. -- A man living in Ozark County is charged with second-degree murder after a shooting during a family outing Sunday near Mammoth. The victim was a man from Mountain Home, Ark.

The shooting was next to Lick Creek near Mammoth, south of Gainesville, on private property near Big Rock swimming hole. A family of about 10 from Mountain Home was enjoying their Sunday, swimming and cooking hot dogs, when the owners came down to confront them.

“There was an argument, push came to shove, a gun was drawn,” said Sheriff Raymond Pace.

Pace says that's when Jesus Sesena-Murrieta, 26, whose fiancée owns the property along the creek, fired four shots in the direction of Alonzo Foster Jr., 22.

Foster died late Sunday night. Sesena-Murrieta, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, is charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action.

On Monday, a dog from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms from Kansas City searched for the gun that a detective says Sesena-Murrieta admitted using. Pace said the gun wasn't found by late Monday afternoon.

“It's just sad; a (man) is dead over nothing,” said Pace.

Sesena-Murrieta was in the Ozark County jail with no bond set on Monday.

Pace says this is just latest in a string of gun-related and violent crimes that his officers have been investigating.

Edit for link. here


Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:18:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dawgsquat:
Illegal immigrant faces murder charge in Ozark County



Pace says that's when Jesus Sesena-Murrieta, 26, whose fiancée owns the property along the creek, fired four shots in the direction of Alonzo Foster Jr., 22.



"Jesus is my Killer"


Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:20:41 AM EDT
Too bad he didn't get hit with 1st degree murder and MO could wax his ass. And tell Mexico to pound sand in the process.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:20:42 AM EDT
second degree?

Jesus.

Is there no degree of apologetics the pro-colonist types won't resort to?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:22:13 AM EDT
just killin' the picnic goers that americans won't kill...

fucker needs to fry.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:22:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 8:23:56 AM EDT by BangStick1]
Hey, I thought it was illegal for illegals to have guns!
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:28:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BangStick1:
Hey, I thought it was illegal for illegals to have guns!


somebody that can't own a gun having a gun any way!!!


who'd of thunk it
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:31:52 AM EDT
A slow and painful death for that man and his family would be nice.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:34:54 AM EDT
Magic needle for the shooter and full forfeiture of assets for the girlfriend. Shit-a rancher detained a group of illegals as they were crossing through his land. A lawyer filed suit for them, and they were awarded all of the rancher's property.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:35:29 AM EDT


Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:38:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sovereign:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/triuneself/bilde.jpg


I have to admit I love that shirt.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:38:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2008 8:43:59 AM EDT by mcculver5]
In.


So a trespasser was told to leave and didn't?

Trespasser gets shot after a violent altercation.

Interesting.

FWIW its a bad shoot in my state and not a shot I'd take unless threatened. I'll wait and see on the "unless threatened" part.

But, I think a lot of Texicans and ARFCOMMERS would normally advocate this shoot.

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:39:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Magic needle for the shooter and full forfeiture of assets for the girlfriend. Shit-a rancher detained a group of illegals as they were crossing through his land. A lawyer filed suit for them, and they were awarded all of the rancher's property.




What the fuck is happening to this country?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:41:17 AM EDT
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:42:20 AM EDT
When are people going to get fed up with this shit? It seems like I hear about illegals every day but nothing is getting done
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:45:37 AM EDT
Hang his ass then deport him.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:45:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Stop that thinking.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:47:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Stop that thinking.


Sounds to me like the only "gun drawing" was done by the illegal. Didn't sound like self defense to me, but the article seems to lack the finer details.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:47:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:


What the fuck is happening to this country?


Um. Are you new?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:48:52 AM EDT
We have officially lost our own fucking country.

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:49:45 AM EDT
Hang him.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:49:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Stop that thinking.


Sounds to me like the only "gun drawing" was done by the illegal. Didn't sound like self defense to me, but the article seems to lack the finer details.


Agree with both statements.

Why did he draw the gun? For fun? Was he threatened?

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:50:25 AM EDT
Good shoot. After all, the opinion here is that you have the right to use deadly force to deal with someone who won't get off your land, correct?

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:50:43 AM EDT
How does an illegal alien get to own land in this country anyway?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:52:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:
How does an illegal alien get to own land in this country anyway?


He doesn't own the land.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:53:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Good shoot. After all, the opinion here is that you have the right to use deadly force to deal with someone who won't get off your land, correct?



The guy that was shot owns the land more than the guy that did the shooting.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you no entiende?
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:53:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:
How does an illegal alien get to own land in this country anyway?


reading > you
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:57:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


That's not what happened.

An ILLEGAL, in the country ILLEGALLY, sees a family trespassing on their land having a picnic. They're not hurting anything, and you could politely inform them to that they're on private land and ask them to leave, or you could be an asshole about it. Who knows which way it went down. Since he's an ILLEGAL he probably doesn't speak good english, if he even knows any at all. For all we know, the family, thinking they were on public land, is suddenly confronted by an angry foreigner who is screaming incoherently at them and is frightening the children. Again, we don't know how it went down.

But the part we DO know is that during the argument, a man who has already broken our laws suddenly drew a gun and murdered another man in cold blood. We don't know if he was shoved or punched, but from what we know so far it seems unlikely. Even if he was, I think killing a guy for hitting or pushing you is a tad excessive, don't you? If he wasn't even touched by the other guy, just yelled at, then he is DEFINITELY a murderer.

He's here illegally, he's in possession of a gun illegally, AND he just murdered someone for having a fucking picnic on his land.

You know, despite all the trespassers on our land, even the ones who got confrontational and screamed or displayed weapons, we've somehow never ended up just shooting them in cold blood. Why couldn't this asshole?

Send him to prison, tell the UN, EU, and Mexico to go fuck themselves if they bitch about us executing yet another murderer, and then kill his ass. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:58:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Good shoot. After all, the opinion here is that you have the right to use deadly force to deal with someone who won't get off your land, correct?



The guy that was shot owns the land more than the guy that did the shooting.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you no entiende?


Trespasser rights > illegal alien rights on property owned by the illegal's fiancée?

Interesting.

Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:58:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By Torf:
How does an illegal alien get to own land in this country anyway?


He doesn't own the land.


OIC, I missed the part where his fiancee owned the land...
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:59:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:
In.


So a trespasser was told to leave and didn't?

Trespasser gets shot after a violent altercation.

Interesting.

FWIW its a bad shoot in my state and not a shot I'd take unless threatened. I'll wait and see on the "unless threatened" part.

But, I think a lot of Texicans and ARFCOMMERS would normally advocate this shoot.



I've never shot anyone for trespassing, even if they cussed me out and happened to be armed at the time. Bad shoot and the guy is a criminal scumbag anyway. Murder. Book 'im and fry 'im. Same thing if it had been the other way around.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 8:59:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Stop that thinking.


Sounds to me like the only "gun drawing" was done by the illegal. Didn't sound like self defense to me, but the article seems to lack the finer details.


Agree with both statements.

Why did he draw the gun? For fun? Was he threatened?



The story posted made it sound like one of the trespassers pulled a gun and that is when the illegal drew and fired.

The following story has a lot more information, and based on this information the illegal should get the death penalty (leaving (possibly to get the gun) then returning and shooting after the tresspassers had agreed to leave).

www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080722/NEWS01/807220311/-1/NEWSFRONT2



Murder charges were filed Monday in the Sunday shooting death of an area man.

Jesus Sesena-Murrieta, 26, is charged with killing Alonzo Foster Jr., 22, of Ash Flat and formerly of Norfork, at a creek in Ozark County, Mo., authorities said.

Foster was with about 10 people swimming in Lick Creek near the Mammoth, Mo., area Sunday afternoon and was getting ready to build a fire to cook hot dogs, family members said. About 4 p.m., the landowner, Alicia Sanders, went down to get them off her property, Ozark County Sheriff Raymond Pace said. Her son-in-law, Sesena-Murrieta, was present, he said.

Pace reported an argument began, which led to shoving, and Sesena-Murrieta pulled out a .38-caliber snub-nosed pistol and shot Foster four times, Pace said.

Foster's parents, Alonzo and Sandy Foster, said they heard no fighting and were getting ready to leave when their son was shot.

While the group was at the creek, Sesena-Murrieta came down to the bank on a 4-wheeler for a short time and left, said Alonzo Foster, 45, of Ash Flat and formerly of Norfork. Sanders came to ask them to leave, and Sesena-Murrieta came back to the area, he said. Foster said they spoke to her and agreed to leave and suddenly they heard their son getting shot behind them a few feet away.

Foster said they heard no loud words or fighting between his son and Sesena-Murrieta. He added they had swam and picnicked at the creek thousands of times and didn't see any no-trespassing signs, he said. Family members who did not know what had happened came down to the same spot to swim later and did not see any no-trespassing signs nor were they asked to leave, they said.

Authorities said Sesena-Murrieta, who was living in Mammoth, fled to Gassville after the shooting. His wife convinced him to return and he turned himself in, Pace said. Sesena-Murrieta is from Mexico and is in the United States illegally, Pace said.

Foster was taken to Baxter Regional Medical Center Sunday night, where he died about 10:30 p.m., Pace said. Family members said about 200 friends were with them at the hospital that night. Foster's body was transferred to Cox South Hospital in Springfield, Mo., for an autopsy that is scheduled for today, Pace said.

Officials with the Ozark County Sheriff's Department and the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms searched for the weapon all day Monday with tracking dogs but were unable to find it, Pace said.

Sesena-Murrieta was charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action and remained in the Ozark County jail Monday with no bond, authorities said. His next court date is scheduled for 9 a.m. July 29, according to an online court docket.

Family members said they heard that a bond-reduction hearing was scheduled and they are worried Sesena-Murrieta will leave the area if he gets out of jail. An online court docket did not show a bond-reduction hearing has been scheduled.

"These people just can't let him go," said Foster's sister, Jacky Holt, 26. "If they let him out, he'll leave."

Those who knew Foster, a 2004 Norfork High School graduate, said he would do anything to help someone.

"He was a really good student," said Norfork High School principal Bobby Hulse, who was at the hospital Sunday night supporting the family. "He was just a really, really good kid who would do anything in the world you would want him to do," he said.

At 6-foot 5-inches tall, Foster loved to play basketball, his family said. He also played baseball and rode 4-wheelers, they said. After Foster graduated from high school, he went to Crowley's Ridge College in Paragould, where he played basketball, his family said. He was working as a boilermaker, they said.

"He was a very skilled young man," said Hulse. Foster was ready to help at school if someone's car wouldn't start or had a flat tire, he said.

"I just can't say enough good things," Hulse said. "He will be missed by all of us. He was so well-liked by the people in the community and by our sports fans. He was a really good kid."

Foster's family said they want justice to be served and want those responsible to be held accountable, they said.

"We don't have an uncle, a brother, anymore," Holt said.

"My brother is 22 years old," said Foster's sister, Christina Peter, 23. "He just didn't do anything wrong."
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:03:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MarkNH:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By evo462:

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Stop that thinking.


Sounds to me like the only "gun drawing" was done by the illegal. Didn't sound like self defense to me, but the article seems to lack the finer details.


Agree with both statements.

Why did he draw the gun? For fun? Was he threatened?



The story posted made it sound like one of the trespassers pulled a gun and that is when the illegal drew and fired. Nowhere does it say anything of the sort, unless you're posting from an alternate dimension.

The following story has a lot more information, and based on this information the illegal should get the death penalty (leaving (possibly to get the gun) then returning and shooting after the tresspassers had agreed to leave).

www.baxterbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080722/NEWS01/807220311/-1/NEWSFRONT2



Murder charges were filed Monday in the Sunday shooting death of an area man.

Jesus Sesena-Murrieta, 26, is charged with killing Alonzo Foster Jr., 22, of Ash Flat and formerly of Norfork, at a creek in Ozark County, Mo., authorities said.

Foster was with about 10 people swimming in Lick Creek near the Mammoth, Mo., area Sunday afternoon and was getting ready to build a fire to cook hot dogs, family members said. About 4 p.m., the landowner, Alicia Sanders, went down to get them off her property, Ozark County Sheriff Raymond Pace said. Her son-in-law, Sesena-Murrieta, was present, he said.

Pace reported an argument began, which led to shoving, and Sesena-Murrieta pulled out a .38-caliber snub-nosed pistol and shot Foster four times, Pace said.

Foster's parents, Alonzo and Sandy Foster, said they heard no fighting and were getting ready to leave when their son was shot.

While the group was at the creek, Sesena-Murrieta came down to the bank on a 4-wheeler for a short time and left, said Alonzo Foster, 45, of Ash Flat and formerly of Norfork. Sanders came to ask them to leave, and Sesena-Murrieta came back to the area, he said. Foster said they spoke to her and agreed to leave and suddenly they heard their son getting shot behind them a few feet away.

Foster said they heard no loud words or fighting between his son and Sesena-Murrieta. He added they had swam and picnicked at the creek thousands of times and didn't see any no-trespassing signs, he said. Family members who did not know what had happened came down to the same spot to swim later and did not see any no-trespassing signs nor were they asked to leave, they said.

Authorities said Sesena-Murrieta, who was living in Mammoth, fled to Gassville after the shooting. His wife convinced him to return and he turned himself in, Pace said. Sesena-Murrieta is from Mexico and is in the United States illegally, Pace said.

Foster was taken to Baxter Regional Medical Center Sunday night, where he died about 10:30 p.m., Pace said. Family members said about 200 friends were with them at the hospital that night. Foster's body was transferred to Cox South Hospital in Springfield, Mo., for an autopsy that is scheduled for today, Pace said.

Officials with the Ozark County Sheriff's Department and the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms searched for the weapon all day Monday with tracking dogs but were unable to find it, Pace said.

Sesena-Murrieta was charged with second-degree murder and armed criminal action and remained in the Ozark County jail Monday with no bond, authorities said. His next court date is scheduled for 9 a.m. July 29, according to an online court docket.

Family members said they heard that a bond-reduction hearing was scheduled and they are worried Sesena-Murrieta will leave the area if he gets out of jail. An online court docket did not show a bond-reduction hearing has been scheduled.

"These people just can't let him go," said Foster's sister, Jacky Holt, 26. "If they let him out, he'll leave."

Those who knew Foster, a 2004 Norfork High School graduate, said he would do anything to help someone.

"He was a really good student," said Norfork High School principal Bobby Hulse, who was at the hospital Sunday night supporting the family. "He was just a really, really good kid who would do anything in the world you would want him to do," he said.

At 6-foot 5-inches tall, Foster loved to play basketball, his family said. He also played baseball and rode 4-wheelers, they said. After Foster graduated from high school, he went to Crowley's Ridge College in Paragould, where he played basketball, his family said. He was working as a boilermaker, they said.

"He was a very skilled young man," said Hulse. Foster was ready to help at school if someone's car wouldn't start or had a flat tire, he said.

"I just can't say enough good things," Hulse said. "He will be missed by all of us. He was so well-liked by the people in the community and by our sports fans. He was a really good kid."

Foster's family said they want justice to be served and want those responsible to be held accountable, they said.

"We don't have an uncle, a brother, anymore," Holt said.

"My brother is 22 years old," said Foster's sister, Christina Peter, 23. "He just didn't do anything wrong."


No assault, not even a shouting match, and the guy left to get a gun and came back and shot a man in cold blood. First degree murder. Execute him.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:05:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

The guy that was shot owns the land more than the guy that did the shooting.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you no entiende?


"Good shoot" doesn't necessarily imply "good shooter." Yes, he's an illegal alien, but that doesn't have any bearing on the rightness or wrongness of the event.

There were people trespassing on his fiance's land. They went down and asked them to leave. Based on the sheriff's "push came to shove" statement, I would assume that the trespasser got violent against the illegal, at which point he was shot and killed.

Now, in any other thread where a landowner shot and killed a trespasser, everyone would be cheering and high-fiving about it. This shooting is not different. The fact that he was an illegal does not make the shooting wrong if it would have been right in any other circumstances.

I personally don't believe that killing someone for trespassing is justified, period. But this is a useful thread for pointing out the hypocrisy of those who commonly claim otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:05:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:


No assault, not even a shouting match, and the guy left to get a gun and came back and shot a man in cold blood. First degree murder. Execute him.


As stated, its not a shot I'm taking unless threatened with SBI and I can't run etc.

But, I'm willing to wait to see if this story changes over time.


YMMV
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:11:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Sounds to me like you're adding a step to the story. I don't see anything about the victim of the shooting pulling a gun, just that the person who isn't even supposed to be in this country shooting a citizen. That's probably why the shooter is being charged with second degree murder.

Besides, an illegal alien shouldn't have gun. The Bill of Rights protects the rights of citizens. If a Mexican citizen wants his rights protected then he should be in Mexico where his country is obligated to protect his rights. Sneaking into our country illegally shouldn't grant you the same rights as people who are citizens.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:13:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By Torf:
How does an illegal alien get to own land in this country anyway?


He doesn't own the land.


AFAIK you don't have to be a citizen or in the US legally to own land here. I could be wrong.

Brian
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:14:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcculver5:

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Good shoot. After all, the opinion here is that you have the right to use deadly force to deal with someone who won't get off your land, correct?



The guy that was shot owns the land more than the guy that did the shooting.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you no entiende?


Trespasser rights > illegal alien rights on property owned by the illegal's fiancée?

Interesting.



1. Trespassing is not a capital offense and I don't know of a single state in the union that allows for using deadly force against someone who is trespassing on private property other than burglar inside your home.

2. The rights of a citizen > The "rights" of an illegal alien.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:14:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PFC-Demon:

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
Good shoot. After all, the opinion here is that you have the right to use deadly force to deal with someone who won't get off your land, correct?



The guy that was shot owns the land more than the guy that did the shooting.

What part of "illegal immigrant" do you no entiende?


Wrong.

Brian
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:14:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


That's not what happened.

An ILLEGAL, in the country ILLEGALLY, sees a family trespassing on their land having a picnic. They're not hurting anything, and you could politely inform them to that they're on private land and ask them to leave, or you could be an asshole about it. Who knows which way it went down. Since he's an ILLEGAL he probably doesn't speak good english, if he even knows any at all. For all we know, the family, thinking they were on public land, is suddenly confronted by an angry foreigner who is screaming incoherently at them and is frightening the children. Again, we don't know how it went down.

But the part we DO know is that during the argument, a man who has already broken our laws suddenly drew a gun and murdered another man in cold blood. We don't know if he was shoved or punched, but from what we know so far it seems unlikely. Even if he was, I think killing a guy for hitting or pushing you is a tad excessive, don't you? If he wasn't even touched by the other guy, just yelled at, then he is DEFINITELY a murderer.

He's here illegally, he's in possession of a gun illegally, AND he just murdered someone for having a fucking picnic on his land.

You know, despite all the trespassers on our land, even the ones who got confrontational and screamed or displayed weapons, we've somehow never ended up just shooting them in cold blood. Why couldn't this asshole?

Send him to prison, tell the UN, EU, and Mexico to go fuck themselves if they bitch about us executing yet another murderer, and then kill his ass. Problem solved.


well said
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:16:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
Lets ignore the illegal immigrant part for a second.

Imagine your fiance owns some land and you see 10 people trespassing on your land, you go down to ask them to leave, they refuse and argue with you, you threaten to call the cops to get them removed, one of them shoves you, you shove him back, someone draws a gun so in self defense you draw your gun and fire killing him.

Should you be charged with murder?

I strongly dislike illegals but unless there is more to this story the illegal should go to prison for illegally owning the gun and for being in the country illegally not for murder (and once he has served his time he should be deported).


Sounds to me like you're adding a step to the story. I don't see anything about the victim of the shooting pulling a gun, just that the person who isn't even supposed to be in this country shooting a citizen. That's probably why the shooter is being charged with second degree murder.

Besides, an illegal alien shouldn't have gun. The Bill of Rights protects the rights of lawful residents of the US. If a Mexican citizen wants his rights protected then he should be in Mexico where his country is obligated to protect his rights. Sneaking into our country illegally shouldn't grant you the same rights as people who are lawful residents of the US.


Fixed it for you

I did add a step to the story because the full story was missing, I wanted to show how the story may have been twisted/misreported. However I then went off and found a story with more information and I am amazed the illegal was only charged with second degree murder.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:16:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

No assault, not even a shouting match, and the guy left to get a gun and came back and shot a man in cold blood. First degree murder. Execute him.


According to the police officer, there was physical violence prior to the shooting. Your sequence of events is also incorrect:

Illegal rides up on 4-wheeler, sees trespassers, does not confront
Illegal rides off, informs the property owner (his mother-in-law, not his fiance; the initial article was incorrect) about the trespassers
Landowner and illegal return, landowner tells trespassers to leave
Trespassing parents agree to leave
Shooting occurs

Now, we have a couple of possibilities here. One is that the illegal shot the young trespasser in cold blood while the others agreed to pack up and leave. This, quite simply, does not make sense. It is totally irrational. Another possibility is that the young trespasser got into a pissing contest with the illegal while his parents talked with the property owner, got violent, and got shot for his actions. This would match up more closely with what the sheriff said.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:17:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:18:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
Magic needle for the shooter and full forfeiture of assets for the girlfriend. Shit-a rancher detained a group of illegals as they were crossing through his land. A lawyer filed suit for them, and they were awarded all of the rancher's property.



source???
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:19:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:22:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Besides, an illegal alien shouldn't have gun. The Bill of Rights protects the rights of citizens. If a Mexican citizen wants his rights protected then he should be in Mexico where his country is obligated to protect his rights. Sneaking into our country illegally shouldn't grant you the same rights as people who are citizens.


Do you even understand the Bill of Rights? Rights are not granted by the document, nor by the government; rights are intrinsic to all humans, and the Bill of Rights exists to place limitations on the government's ability to affect said rights. Rights are not things that are given; they are things that cannot be taken away. Illegals are absolutely covered under the Bill of Rights.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:23:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

No assault, not even a shouting match, and the guy left to get a gun and came back and shot a man in cold blood. First degree murder. Execute him.


According to the police officer, there was physical violence prior to the shooting. Your sequence of events is also incorrect:

Illegal rides up on 4-wheeler, sees trespassers, does not confront
Illegal rides off, informs the property owner (his mother-in-law, not his fiance; the initial article was incorrect) about the trespassers
Landowner and illegal return, landowner tells trespassers to leave
Trespassing parents agree to leave
Shooting occurs

Now, we have a couple of possibilities here. One is that the illegal shot the young trespasser in cold blood while the others agreed to pack up and leave. This, quite simply, does not make sense. It is totally irrational. Another possibility is that the young trespasser got into a pissing contest with the illegal while his parents talked with the property owner, got violent, and got shot for his actions. This would match up more closely with what the sheriff said.


Kind of how it plays in my head as well.

But, who knows, maybe the guy started blasting for no reason.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:24:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By MarkNH:
The following story has a lot more information, and based on this information the illegal should get the death penalty (leaving (possibly to get the gun) then returning and shooting after the tresspassers had agreed to leave).


If that's true, string his ass up.


He left to get the landowner, not the gun. He didn't confront the trespassers at all the first time, when he was on his own; he observed them and left.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:24:54 AM EDT
I hate trespassers.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:30:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Besides, an illegal alien shouldn't have gun. The Bill of Rights protects the rights of citizens. If a Mexican citizen wants his rights protected then he should be in Mexico where his country is obligated to protect his rights. Sneaking into our country illegally shouldn't grant you the same rights as people who are citizens.


Do you even understand the Bill of Rights? Rights are not granted by the document, nor by the government; rights are intrinsic to all humans, and the Bill of Rights exists to place limitations on the government's ability to affect said rights. Rights are not things that are given; they are things that cannot be taken away. Illegals are absolutely covered under the Bill of Rights.


Read my post again. I didn't say that the Bill of Rights grants rights. I said that the Bill of Rights defends the rights of Americans. The founders of this nation instituted our government for the express purpose of securing our liberty (that the government has strayed from this is a different discussion).

The fact is though that the Bill of Rights protects the rights of Americans and those who are here legally with our permission. Those who sneak into the country are not (or should not be) covered. Their governments are responsible for protecting their rights, not ours.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 9:31:51 AM EDT
If this guy had been in Mexico where he belonged, no one would be dead. End of story.
By crossing the border illegally and committing a felony that resulted in death, he is guilty, same as if he had accidentally killed someone while robbing a convenience store.
Last time I checked, you are required to meet force with equal force, so even if "push came to shove", he still had no right to shoot the "trespassers". All illegal aliens should be rounded up and put in concentration camps and forced to live in tents in the desert in Yuma, AZ until the trickle slows across the border.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top