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Posted: 6/4/2008 5:20:00 PM EST
...why not vote Libertarian? Not because you think the Libertarian Party is the end-all, be-all greatest thing since sliced cheese, but because a jump in the number of votes for Libertarian candidates is going to pressure the Republican Party to stop their shift to the left and return to small-government, fiscal conservatives?

Even if I thought John McCain was a little bit greater than the Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and decided to pour my heart and soul into campaigning for him... he is not going to carry California. It just isn't going to happen. So, every vote for McCain in CA is a vote for leftism. It's a vote affirming the slide to the left by all GOP candidates. It reinforces the ultimate demise of this country in a swamp of Socialist wealth redistribution and the destruction of personal liberty. I just can't cast that vote.

Please note, I am not suggesting that those in "swing" states should vote against a principle that McCain is better than Obama. In the short term, this country will be somewhat better off with McCain, so if someone in Kansas or Pennsylvania has to vote for him, so be it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:29:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:
...why not vote Libertarian? Not because you think the Libertarian Party is the end-all, be-all greatest thing since sliced cheese, but because a jump in the number of votes for Libertarian candidates is going to pressure the Republican Party to stop their shift to the left and return to small-government, fiscal conservatives?

Even if I thought John McCain was a little bit greater than the Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and decided to pour my heart and soul into campaigning for him... he is not going to carry California. It just isn't going to happen. So, every vote for McCain in CA is a vote for leftism. It's a vote affirming the slide to the left by all GOP candidates. It reinforces the ultimate demise of this country in a swamp of Socialist wealth redistribution and the destruction of personal liberty. I just can't cast that vote.

Please note, I am not suggesting that those in "swing" states should vote against a principle that McCain is better than Obama. In the short term, this country will be somewhat better off with McCain, so if someone in Kansas or Pennsylvania has to vote for him, so be it.


Your confounded logic has no place on the arf.

Everyone here has the theory that until a critical mass is reached, it is silly to be pointed in the right direction.

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:31:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By LouisianaCarry:

Your confounded logic has no place on the arf.

Everyone here has the theory that until a critical mass is reached, it is silly to be pointed in the right direction.



We're under the delusion that it will not get worse before things get better.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:33:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By jnojr:
...why not vote Libertarian? Not because you think the Libertarian Party is the end-all, be-all greatest thing since sliced cheese, but because a jump in the number of votes for Libertarian candidates is going to pressure the Republican Party to stop their shift to the left and return to small-government, fiscal conservatives?

Even if I thought John McCain was a little bit greater than the Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and decided to pour my heart and soul into campaigning for him... he is not going to carry California. It just isn't going to happen. So, every vote for McCain in CA is a vote for leftism. It's a vote affirming the slide to the left by all GOP candidates. It reinforces the ultimate demise of this country in a swamp of Socialist wealth redistribution and the destruction of personal liberty. I just can't cast that vote.

Please note, I am not suggesting that those in "swing" states should vote against a principle that McCain is better than Obama. In the short term, this country will be somewhat better off with McCain, so if someone in Kansas or Pennsylvania has to vote for him, so be it.


I've said this very thing in a few threads here on Arfcom and all I ever get is,
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:36:34 PM EST
Every vote counts. Clinton won his first Presidency by less than 100 votes in a couple of states. People decided not to show up, and Clinton got in.

I won't be part of that mistake ever again.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:42:01 PM EST
might as well not vote at all
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:46:32 PM EST
How do you know the state "is not going to go Republican" until after the election?

Do you know how many times the media has "predicted" election results and been WRONG?

I sincerely hope you don't have a head full of left wing media propaganda and swallow all their "poll results" like they are gospel.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:46:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Every vote counts. Clinton won his first Presidency by less than 100 votes in a couple of states. People decided not to show up, and Clinton got in.

I won't be part of that mistake ever again.


Which 2 states did Bill Clinton win by less than 100 votes. A link proving this assertion will be suffcient.

pmc
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:52:45 PM EST
Bill Clinton was president becasue of Ross Pero.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:54:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
might as well not vote at all


pretty much.. why vote for people I have nothing in common with?!?!
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:56:11 PM EST
Oh yea that really makes sence. "It looks like we're going to lose anyway, so I'll just give up and say fuck it" Are you kidding me? Not to mention I never want any part of me associated with Libertarians. I'll be voting McCain, you can thank me after the election.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:57:38 PM EST
See, I told you.

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:58:41 PM EST
On the Presidency, when did the popular vote matter anyways?
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:59:45 PM EST
I won't take any chances when socialism is looming on the horizon.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:59:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gator:
On the Presidency, when did the popular vote matter anyways?


Doesn't matter, if we don't show up to vote McCain sure isn't getting any of our electoral college votes either.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:01:15 PM EST
Well, you're right. It's winner-take-all for the electoral college votes, so if you're in a solid blue state, it really doesn't matter who you vote for.

Normally.

This election, though, I don't think any state is guaranteed to go Dem (well, probably Illinois ). But the race factor is going to rear its head - who knows, states that have been solidly Dem in the past might not be so easy this time. Only a fool would believe that there aren't a lot of regular Dem voters out there who are going to think twice about voting for the black guy with the funny name.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:04:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By eswanson:
Well, you're right. It's winner-take-all for the electoral college votes, so if you're in a solid blue state, it really doesn't matter who you vote for.

Normally.

This election, though, I don't think any state is guaranteed to go Dem (well, probably Illinois ). But the race factor is going to rear its head - who knows, states that have been solidly Dem in the past might not be so easy this time. Only a fool would believe that there aren't a lot of regular Dem voters out there who are going to think twice about voting for the black guy with the funny name.


There are a lot of Dems out there that really don't like Obama. My mom's one of 'em, she's been voting for Dems a real long time, and she'll be the first to tell you there's no way in hell we can let Obama win. There are a lot of people like that out there, while the solid blue states like New York, California, Illinois, Mass., etc. may stay blue there're a few blue states that could turn the other way.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:06:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Every vote counts. Clinton won his first Presidency by less than 100 votes in a couple of states. People decided not to show up, and Clinton got in.

I won't be part of that mistake ever again.



Bill Clinton was president becasue of Ross Pero.


This



Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:06:40 PM EST
Vote McCain anyway and "send Obama a message", like politicians take such messages to heart
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:08:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By PinePig:

Originally Posted By jnojr:
...why not vote Libertarian? Not because you think the Libertarian Party is the end-all, be-all greatest thing since sliced cheese, but because a jump in the number of votes for Libertarian candidates is going to pressure the Republican Party to stop their shift to the left and return to small-government, fiscal conservatives?

Even if I thought John McCain was a little bit greater than the Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and decided to pour my heart and soul into campaigning for him... he is not going to carry California. It just isn't going to happen. So, every vote for McCain in CA is a vote for leftism. It's a vote affirming the slide to the left by all GOP candidates. It reinforces the ultimate demise of this country in a swamp of Socialist wealth redistribution and the destruction of personal liberty. I just can't cast that vote.

Please note, I am not suggesting that those in "swing" states should vote against a principle that McCain is better than Obama. In the short term, this country will be somewhat better off with McCain, so if someone in Kansas or Pennsylvania has to vote for him, so be it.


I've said this very thing in a few threads here on Arfcom and all I ever get is,



Well, here, you get another one for playing This is a retarded argument. Vote for someone like Bob Barr who is very liberal on some issues compared to McCain and all will be better? Here's another one and a
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:08:34 PM EST
You know something? That's a good idea.

I won't do it in Ohio, but I'd totally do it in California or IL.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:10:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By 068:
Oh yea that really makes cents. "It looks like we're going to loose anyway, so I'll just give up and say fuck it" Are you kidding me? Not to mention I never want any part of me associated with Libertarians. I'll be voting McCain, you can thank me after the election.


Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:10:41 PM EST
McCain has no chance in MD, but I'm going to make sure I vote for him. If I recall correctly, several liberal states elected to award their electoral college delegates to whoever wins the nationwide popular vote, so in that case every vote does count.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:11:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 6:12:30 PM EST by theBUBBAMANcan]
Obama is a threat to our national security. Therefore, I feel that we should vote for the most viable alternative and let the chips fall where the may.



I voted for Perot in '92 and helped get Clinton elected. Bill rewarded me with a 10 year AWB. Lesson learned.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:13:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
You know something? That's a good idea.

I won't do it in Ohio, but I'd totally do it in California or IL.


Brother, our state is going to be one of the few that decide this election, just like last time. VOTE McCAIN! (But I think you already know that).
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:15:46 PM EST
Voting Libertarian will sure send a message.
It will read "OBAMA WINS!"

I wish it was not this way, but every vote not for Mccain, might as well be for Obama.

Until the Libertarians can get a real candidate with real money backing, any vote for them is a waste.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:15:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 6:17:48 PM EST by Slave1]
I'll be voting McCain.

I don't even want to think about what the ROPs would do if walk away from Iraq.

That shit will follow us home.


ETA: If you vote for someone other than McCain or Obama and Obama wins, the lesson republicans will learn is that they need to be more like Obama to win.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:23:23 PM EST
I don't think there is worry about TEXAS.

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:24:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By omega62:

Originally Posted By Subnet:
You know something? That's a good idea.

I won't do it in Ohio, but I'd totally do it in California or IL.


Brother, our state is going to be one of the few that decide this election, just like last time. VOTE McCAIN! (But I think you already know that).


I do, and I will (while holding my nose).
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:30:18 PM EST
It isnt just the very liberal states where that would be a good idea, but also the very conservative ones.

Like Wyoming or Idaho. Obama will not carry those states period, so you might as well vote constitution party or libertarian.

Doing so would actually help more than voting Mccain as it would help those parties get noticed and might help them grow whereas voting Mccain will not help as he is going to win anyway.

Now states like OH, PA, MI, VA, one would be wise to vote mccain as the lesser of two evils. I dont like him, but I dont want a obama presidency, that could be the death of our nation
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:33:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:39:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By eswanson:
Well, you're right. It's winner-take-all for the electoral college votes, so if you're in a solid blue state, it really doesn't matter who you vote for.

Normally.

This election, though, I don't think any state is guaranteed to go Dem (well, probably Illinois ). But the race factor is going to rear its head - who knows, states that have been solidly Dem in the past might not be so easy this time. Only a fool would believe that there aren't a lot of regular Dem voters out there who are going to think twice about voting for the black guy with the funny name.


I agree. I think Obama could be McGovern Act II. I live in Colorado, a purple state so I will vote for McCain.

But I don't think I would vote for the Libertarian candidate anyway. I think Barr is an opportunist.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:44:15 PM EST
Why remove some of the popular vote from McCain? That makes no sense to me, regardless of the state's electoral outcome.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 7:56:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
You know something? That's a good idea.

I won't do it in Ohio, but I'd totally do it in California or IL.


I'd right in Howdy Doody before i wasted my vote on a libertarian.

Fuck it, i'll drink the kool aid and vote for MCCain even though its like pissing in the wind in this state.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 10:50:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Gator:
On the Presidency, when did the popular vote matter anyways?


Because the popular vote in each state determines how the Electoral College votes from that state go. If it was just popular vote, the parties would concentrate on a few big cities and ignore all the flyover states.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:01:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By drrocket:

Originally Posted By 068:
Oh yea that really makes cents. "It looks like we're going to loose anyway, so I'll just give up and say fuck it" Are you kidding me? Not to mention I never want any part of me associated with Libertarians. I'll be voting McCain, you can thank me after the election.


Fixed it for you.


Good fix job.

Cents should be sense, and he spelled lose right the first time.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:23:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By PinePig:

Originally Posted By jnojr:
...why not vote Libertarian? Not because you think the Libertarian Party is the end-all, be-all greatest thing since sliced cheese, but because a jump in the number of votes for Libertarian candidates is going to pressure the Republican Party to stop their shift to the left and return to small-government, fiscal conservatives?

Even if I thought John McCain was a little bit greater than the Second Coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and decided to pour my heart and soul into campaigning for him... he is not going to carry California. It just isn't going to happen. So, every vote for McCain in CA is a vote for leftism. It's a vote affirming the slide to the left by all GOP candidates. It reinforces the ultimate demise of this country in a swamp of Socialist wealth redistribution and the destruction of personal liberty. I just can't cast that vote.

Please note, I am not suggesting that those in "swing" states should vote against a principle that McCain is better than Obama. In the short term, this country will be somewhat better off with McCain, so if someone in Kansas or Pennsylvania has to vote for him, so be it.


I've said this very thing in a few threads here on Arfcom and all I ever get is,

Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:35:33 PM EST
fuck it, i'm in.


RON PAUL FOREVVVVEEEEERRRRRR!!!!!



Link Posted: 6/5/2008 12:21:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
You know something? That's a good idea.

I won't do it in Ohio, but I'd totally do it in California or IL.


+1

If you are in a GUARANTEED blue state it could only help to show the R's we're not happy.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 12:26:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By bumpus:

Originally Posted By drrocket:

Originally Posted By 068:
Oh yea that really makes cents. "It looks like we're going to loose anyway, so I'll just give up and say fuck it" Are you kidding me? Not to mention I never want any part of me associated with Libertarians. I'll be voting McCain, you can thank me after the election.


Fixed it for you.


Good fix job.

Cents should be sense, and he spelled lose right the first time.


I saw that as well.

Don't quit your day job 068.

Link Posted: 6/5/2008 12:47:41 AM EST
If you're thinking of a protest vote or staying home because you're state's a forgone conclusion, don't.

I don't advocate the national popular vote, but this site has decent info on the situation.

www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland have all gone with the national popular vote.

That's 50 electoral votes from 4 of the most liberal states in the country that every one of you from Alaska to Florida get to vote for. It'll be worth it alone to see the liberal meltdown when their electoral votes don't go to their new savior.

Link Posted: 6/5/2008 1:08:56 AM EST
Third Parties do not work. Get that into your heads, they simply don't work. If you want a third party make sure it is big enough to eclipse the party you want replaced.

As for voting for a "libertarian" which one do you want me to vote for? Ron Paul or Bob Barr? They are nut cases and I refuse to support someone that is as deluded as they.

At the very least McCain is familiar with the system and should be able to work it to help us. He's not my favorite, but I'll be damned if I vote for a nutcase suggesting we go back to the gold standard.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 1:30:42 AM EST
Don't risk it.. just vote Mccain.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 1:45:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By qcka:
If you're thinking of a protest vote or staying home because you're state's a forgone conclusion, don't.

I don't advocate the national popular vote, but this site has decent info on the situation.

www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland have all gone with the national popular vote.

That's 50 electoral votes from 4 of the most liberal states in the country that every one of you from Alaska to Florida get to vote for. It'll be worth it alone to see the liberal meltdown when their electoral votes don't go to their new savior.



+1


When this dog and pony show started I was in agreement with the OP. Now that we know who the candidates are and given comments I've heard from some life long Dems and factor in the results in the PR primary, I have a feeling that even NY could be in play this year.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:08:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
Every vote counts. Clinton won his first Presidency by less than 100 votes in a couple of states. People decided not to show up, and Clinton got in.

I won't be part of that mistake ever again.

QFT

My brain refused to accept that Clinton could win.

So wrong....
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:19:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2008 3:20:49 AM EST by JonasWright]

Originally Posted By jhardy:
Third Parties do not work...


In order:
Whig
Democratic
Whig
Whig
Democratic
Democratic




When your political party has totally given up on its ideology and shits all over it supporters all sorts of neato things can happen.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 3:37:30 AM EST
Well I'm in Ohio but I'm not voting for McCain. Sorry but the Republicans lost me awhile ago. Might as well let the first black president fuck everything up and maybe it'll get better in 2012.
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