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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:41:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:42:13 AM EST by MGNiko]
What's the best approach? I took a job as a financial analyst since my primary business (real estate) is in the gutter right now. After 90 days I hear that the board of directors is planning a RIF and my job + 2 others are going to go. Next to the CFO and controller I'm the most expensive finance guy and that's not a lot of $$ (non-profit) but enough to pay the bills so I'm happy with it. Anyway no one will give me a straight answer. First I just hear of a RIF going on. Next day the director tells me 45 days. Then I hear "well, we're just not sure. Maybe 45 days, maybe sooner, maybe never". WTF

Anyway I have started sending resumes out again & have been getting calls. I'll meet with folks after my work is done for the day. But what if one offers? Most will be a slight reduction in pay or equal; should I take a new gig on the assumption that a position will be canned or potentially look for work during the holidays? Maybe Obama will take care of me
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:45:34 AM EST
That's a tough call.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:47:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:48:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:49:42 AM EST by MGNiko]
Excellent ideas....I've never been in this situation before & don't like getting my chain yanked.

Oh BTW, Alaska is at-will so they can let me go for any reason without a severance package. In this non-profit it won't happen anyway. Actually in the P&P manual during the first 6 months of employment you do not need to be given notice at all for a RIF. Work one day & gone the next.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:50:19 AM EST
If you got an offer, I would take it. A slight reduction in pay for some security is worthwhile.
Unemployment will be more than a slight reduction in pay, anyhow... grab a job while the grabbing is good.
Those positions may not be there tomorrow, and theres no sense in losing sleep over whether you'll have a job next week.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:50:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Get the offer and then confront management. Give me an answer as to the status of my job or I'll have to accept this offer. And then get it in writing that your employment is secure for a period of X or they agree to a severance package of Y.


this exactly. Security is worth its weight in gold.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:50:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Get the offer and then confront management. Give me an answer as to the status of my job or I'll have to accept this offer. And then get it in writing that your employment is secure for a period of X or they agree to a severance package of Y.


This
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:55:31 AM EST
Never threaten management with leaving... once you are gone you are gone. Even if it is just in your heart.

When approached by someone with an other offer my response is... "Well, bye." Nobody is that good.

If these guys are not being straight to you now then how are they going to be when they are laying you off? Get another job and do not look back.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:55:48 AM EST
Look out for your own ass.

A company I worked for in PRK was gonna be closing down the position I had with them and because of contacts I had with the main office I knew EXACTLY WHEN the main office was gonna MAKE THEM close out the position.

I dropped a few heavt hints to the Operations Manager and he never gave me a straight answer as to what they were gonna do with me when they closed the position out.

SO........I put the word out that I was available, got a job offer for MORE money, and took it. When I gave my 2 weeks notice they were floored. I told them, "Hey-you never gave me ANY answer to my questions about my future position here and I wasn't about to come in here one morning and have you hand me an empty cardboard box and tell me to clean out my desk."
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:13:53 AM EST
The ship don't give a shit about the rats and the rats shouldn't give a shit about the ship.....secure another job and go...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:16:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Get the offer and then confront management. Give me an answer as to the status of my job or I'll have to accept this offer. And then get it in writing that your employment is secure for a period of X or they agree to a severance package of Y.


My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:16:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 7:18:37 AM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]
I usually hurt my back with a fall at the snack machines.. when the going gets tough....

j/k

Hard call...but I would go with what is secure..If you think that they are going to lay you off they may..

If you see others around you dropping off..then jump ship!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:23:38 AM EST
You folks rock, again thanks!

I have never thought a business exists to provide me employment; they
exist to turn a profit or stay in business providing a service.
But I'm so dang loyal I have a tough time with these kind of decisions.

My wife tells me they already showed that they have no problem letting
me go so I should not feel guilty interviewing/accepting another job.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:46:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:51:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By MGNiko:

My wife tells me they already showed that they have no problem letting
me go so I should not feel guilty interviewing/accepting another job.



You sound young and naive. I assure you, you have no idea how little sleep they lose knowing they are going to lay you off. Within a year, they probably will scarcely remember your name.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:57:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By MGNiko:

My wife tells me they already showed that they have no problem letting
me go so I should not feel guilty interviewing/accepting another job.



You sound young and naive. I assure you, you have no idea how little sleep they lose knowing they are going to lay you off. Within a year, they probably will scarcely remember your name.


I was thinking the same thing. I'm willing to bet that you have never been laid off; otherwise, you would have a bit different perspective. If you are offered another job, take it and never look back.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:59:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By MGNiko:

My wife tells me they already showed that they have no problem letting
me go so I should not feel guilty interviewing/accepting another job.



You sound young and naive. I assure you, you have no idea how little sleep they lose knowing they are going to lay you off. Within a year 90 days, they probably will scarcely remember your name.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:00:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:05:47 AM EST by MGNiko]
Originally Posted By david_g17:
Originally Posted By MGNiko:

My wife tells me they already showed that they have no problem letting
me go so I should not feel guilty interviewing/accepting another job.



You sound young and naive. I assure you, you have no idea how little sleep they lose knowing they are going to lay you off. Within a year, they probably will scarcely remember your name.


Yep I'm 31 and have always owned my own businesses. This is my first experience working for someone else. After college I started in real estste & been doing that ever since.




Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:01:24 AM EST
leave.all the warning signs are there but find something else first.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:02:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:04:22 AM EST by MGNiko]
Double tap.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:04:27 AM EST
I would jump ship if you get an offer with any chance of stability. When you start hearing about layoffs and such you know that it is only a matter of time before you get cut or the company goes under. If your current company expects your loyalty then they really need to be honest with you and give you straight answers. Uncertainty leads to a morale in the shitter.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:06:38 AM EST
Be very picky about what jobs you apply for as long as you still have one. Don't take a lower-paying one on fear that you may be laid off. Those decisions by management and HR are very fluid and subject to change at any time.

If the hammer does come down, shift your job search into high gear and file your UI claim.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 9:07:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 9:14:56 AM EST by cujet]
Since you have a "heads up", it seems foolish not to act on it.

I had a similar situation when I worked for Mobil Oil. I used my time at work to look for another job. And, I found a good one.

Another thought, maybe they are not clear with you because they don't know what's going to happen. Are things bad and they are simply hoping that things will improve? If so, your intuition is as good as anyone's.

Do you see any single person in management thinking things will improve? Is it realistic and can they be trusted? One thing that always helps me is to lay out all the facts on paper in two columns. Pro and Con. Then look it over, very carefully. For me, I find that one "fact" on the paper jumps out and holds more weight than the others.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:07:26 AM EST
the rumors always have basis in fact

bail now

because it's a matter of time

actually see if you can work it so you get laid off (unemployment, severance, etc) BEFORE you start your new job.

work the system

cuz it's certainly working us.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:33:23 AM EST
Do what you feel you need to do to cover your butt.

If the other job offers more security... hell yeah... Go for it!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:38:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:46:18 AM EST by PatriotAr15]
Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Look out for your own ass.

A company I worked for in PRK was gonna be closing down the position I had with them and because of contacts I had with the main office I knew EXACTLY WHEN the main office was gonna MAKE THEM close out the position.

I dropped a few heavt hints to the Operations Manager and he never gave me a straight answer as to what they were gonna do with me when they closed the position out.

SO........I put the word out that I was available, got a job offer for MORE money, and took it. When I gave my 2 weeks notice they were floored. I told them, "Hey-you never gave me ANY answer to my questions about my future position here and I wasn't about to come in here one morning and have you hand me an empty cardboard box and tell me to clean out my desk."


Thats what pisses me off about many American businesses. They only give a damn about their own bottom line... and have absolutely NO loyalty or no consideration towards the needs of their employees. AND THEN they are shocked and disgusted when the worker look out for THEIR OWN bottom line. So they demand the very loyalty, and selflessness that they lack? Bullshit

"No ! You MUST stay here and work for us! You MUST put company before your self, even though we don't even give a shit about you, and would lay you off without any kind of warning".
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:23:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
Originally Posted By gamesniper:
Look out for your own ass.

A company I worked for in PRK was gonna be closing down the position I had with them and because of contacts I had with the main office I knew EXACTLY WHEN the main office was gonna MAKE THEM close out the position.

I dropped a few heavt hints to the Operations Manager and he never gave me a straight answer as to what they were gonna do with me when they closed the position out.

SO........I put the word out that I was available, got a job offer for MORE money, and took it. When I gave my 2 weeks notice they were floored. I told them, "Hey-you never gave me ANY answer to my questions about my future position here and I wasn't about to come in here one morning and have you hand me an empty cardboard box and tell me to clean out my desk."


Thats what pisses me off about many American businesses. They only give a damn about their own bottom line... and have absolutely NO loyalty or no consideration towards the needs of their employees. AND THEN they are shocked and disgusted when the worker look out for THEIR OWN bottom line. So they demand the very loyalty, and selflessness that they lack? Bullshit

"No ! You MUST stay here and work for us! You MUST put company before your self, even though we don't even give a shit about you, and would lay you off without any kind of warning".


Sounds about right
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:33:43 PM EST
Look for another job. Most corps take awile to do the hiring process. Interview, 2nd interview, job offer, haggle about pay, pee test. That is a good 6 weeks at most companies. By then you will know if you want to stay. Just if you take the other offer, go to the job do nto play the counter offer bs,
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:35:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By MGNiko:
What's the best approach? I took a job as a financial analyst since my primary business (real estate) is in the gutter right now. After 90 days I hear that the board of directors is planning a RIF and my job + 2 others are going to go. Next to the CFO and controller I'm the most expensive finance guy and that's not a lot of $$ (non-profit) but enough to pay the bills so I'm happy with it. Anyway no one will give me a straight answer. First I just hear of a RIF going on. Next day the director tells me 45 days. Then I hear "well, we're just not sure. Maybe 45 days, maybe sooner, maybe never". WTF

Anyway I have started sending resumes out again & have been getting calls. I'll meet with folks after my work is done for the day. But what if one offers? Most will be a slight reduction in pay or equal; should I take a new gig on the assumption that a position will be canned or potentially look for work during the holidays? Maybe Obama will take care of me

Get a contract...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:01:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:

Thats what pisses me off about many American businesses. They only give a damn about their own bottom line... and have absolutely NO loyalty or no consideration towards the needs of their employees. AND THEN they are shocked and disgusted when the worker look out for THEIR OWN bottom line. So they demand the very loyalty, and selflessness that they lack? Bullshit

"No ! You MUST stay here and work for us! You MUST put company before your self, even though we don't even give a shit about you, and would lay you off without any kind of warning".


If you want "loyalty", buy a dog. A business owner is no more prone to try and keep than you are to stay and not leave when you want. Goes both ways. Labor is the biggest cost any business incurs and sometimes it has to be treated as any other cost that may need to be cut. No matter how great and productive you are, that is last weeks news and you were compensated for it in terms of a paid wage/salary.

One thing I have noticed at work in this crappy economy, is that nobody is saying "I am not paid enough for this" or "it is not my job". If the fucking boss wants you to try and split the atom for the remainder of your work shift, then you show all out effort to try and split the atom. Alternative is to hit the fucking bricks and get another sap in that is willing to do it.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:15:01 PM EST
Some of the replies here have been pretty good about looking for a new job, or for negotiating with your manager(s) about keeping your old job. I have lived under the possibility of a layoff for the past 18 months, and this is the list I came up with for other things you should be doing. Some of these may not apply to you.


Do not undertake any more debt if at all possible. If you are going to be laid off, it is a bad time to buy a new car.
Pay off all outstanding debts, if at all possible, before you lose your job.
Save as much $$$$$ as possible.
Go to the doctor, and get your annual checkup while you still have coverage. Get all of your scripts renewed.
Same deal with the dentist.
Same deal with the eye doctor. Make sure you have written copies of the scrips for both your glasses and your contacts.
Get extra pairs of glasses, and refill your supply of contact lenses.
If your resume is not up to date, make some time to write it up, along with the cover letter, before the layoff.
Make sure you have a set of good clothes and shoes for the interviews.
Stock your pantry very deeply. Any food that is not cheap may be beyond your means unless you buy it now.



Steve



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:25:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By stevem1a:
Some of the replies here have been pretty good about looking for a new job, or for negotiating with your manager(s) about keeping your old job. I have lived under the possibility of a layoff for the past 18 months, and this is the list I came up with for other things you should be doing. Some of these may not apply to you.


Do not undertake any more debt if at all possible. If you are going to be laid off, it is a bad time to buy a new car.
Pay off all outstanding debts, if at all possible, before you lose your job.
Save as much $$$$$ as possible.
Go to the doctor, and get your annual checkup while you still have coverage. Get all of your scripts renewed.
Same deal with the dentist.
Same deal with the eye doctor. Make sure you have written copies of the scrips for both your glasses and your contacts.
Get extra pairs of glasses, and refill your supply of contact lenses.
If your resume is not up to date, make some time to write it up, along with the cover letter, before the layoff.
Make sure you have a set of good clothes and shoes for the interviews.
Stock your pantry very deeply. Any food that is not cheap may be beyond your means unless you buy it now.



Steve





GoodAdvice, very practical.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:16:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By stevem1a:
Some of the replies here have been pretty good about looking for a new job, or for negotiating with your manager(s) about keeping your old job. I have lived under the possibility of a layoff for the past 18 months, and this is the list I came up with for other things you should be doing. Some of these may not apply to you.


Do not undertake any more debt if at all possible. If you are going to be laid off, it is a bad time to buy a new car.
Pay off all outstanding debts, if at all possible, before you lose your job.
Save as much $$$$$ as possible.
Go to the doctor, and get your annual checkup while you still have coverage. Get all of your scripts renewed.
Same deal with the dentist.
Same deal with the eye doctor. Make sure you have written copies of the scrips for both your glasses and your contacts.
Get extra pairs of glasses, and refill your supply of contact lenses.
If your resume is not up to date, make some time to write it up, along with the cover letter, before the layoff.
Make sure you have a set of good clothes and shoes for the interviews.
Stock your pantry very deeply. Any food that is not cheap may be beyond your means unless you buy it now.



Steve





That is some spot on advice, I appreciate it!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:24:56 PM EST
Look at employment this way:

You are a diligent, hard-working guy, and they are Site Staff.

ummm,

let me tray that another way...

you are a bug scampering around on I-95 and they are overloaded Semis going 90MPH.

err, het me try that a different way...

you are a taxpayer and they are Congress.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:26:58 PM EST
I got laid off today and I didn't see it coming. If I had, I wouldn't have taken that cruise I just got back from. Fuck me. Fuck me hard.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:31:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:34:31 PM EST by PatriotAr15]
Originally Posted By Hootbro:
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:

Thats what pisses me off about many American businesses. They only give a damn about their own bottom line... and have absolutely NO loyalty or no consideration towards the needs of their employees. AND THEN they are shocked and disgusted when the worker look out for THEIR OWN bottom line. So they demand the very loyalty, and selflessness that they lack? Bullshit

"No ! You MUST stay here and work for us! You MUST put company before your self, even though we don't even give a shit about you, and would lay you off without any kind of warning".


If you want "loyalty", buy a dog. A business owner is no more prone to try and keep than you are to stay and not leave when you want. Goes both ways. Labor is the biggest cost any business incurs and sometimes it has to be treated as any other cost that may need to be cut. No matter how great and productive you are, that is last weeks news and you were compensated for it in terms of a paid wage/salary.

One thing I have noticed at work in this crappy economy, is that nobody is saying "I am not paid enough for this" or "it is not my job". If the fucking boss wants you to try and split the atom for the remainder of your work shift, then you show all out effort to try and split the atom. Alternative is to hit the fucking bricks and get another sap in that is willing to do it.



I was trying to say, dont give your company more consideration than they are lacking in giving you. If they don't have a problem laying you off without a warning... then screw 'em and leave 'em if your offered a better job. They will look after their own bottom line, so should the workers.. I think its bad enough they demand two weeks notice, but would NEVER give us the same consideration... I only give them two weeks notice because it looks good to future employers...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:38:22 PM EST
Don't lose hope.
I was notified in November 08 and wasn't actually laid off until May 09.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:50:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By MGNiko:
Originally Posted By stevem1a:
Some of the replies here have been pretty good about looking for a new job, or for negotiating with your manager(s) about keeping your old job. I have lived under the possibility of a layoff for the past 18 months, and this is the list I came up with for other things you should be doing. Some of these may not apply to you.


Do not undertake any more debt if at all possible. If you are going to be laid off, it is a bad time to buy a new car.
Pay off all outstanding debts, if at all possible, before you lose your job.
Save as much $$$$$ as possible.
Go to the doctor, and get your annual checkup while you still have coverage. Get all of your scripts renewed.
Same deal with the dentist.
Same deal with the eye doctor. Make sure you have written copies of the scrips for both your glasses and your contacts.
Get extra pairs of glasses, and refill your supply of contact lenses.
If your resume is not up to date, make some time to write it up, along with the cover letter, before the layoff.
Make sure you have a set of good clothes and shoes for the interviews.
Stock your pantry very deeply. Any food that is not cheap may be beyond your means unless you buy it now.



Steve





That is some spot on advice, I appreciate it!



You're welcome, and good luck.


Steve

Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:06:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Don't lose hope.
I was notified in November 08 and wasn't actually laid off until May 09.


That's very good; I bet you started hunting for work too so that when the time came you were ready.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 11:13:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By nissanfan84:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Get the offer and then confront management. Give me an answer as to the status of my job or I'll have to accept this offer. And then get it in writing that your employment is secure for a period of X or they agree to a severance package of Y.


this exactly. Security is worth its weight in gold.


never take a counter offer.

if you have one in hand, leave. if you stay after playing reindeer games like this, you should expect to be replaced ASAP.
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