Would gun control be set back?  Would a war have anything to do with gun laws in America?  

Yes. The socialists and unscrupulous lawyers would sieze upon the opportunity, in the guise of national security, to enact further gun legistation that would be detrimental to the private ownership of firearms.

c'mon, really?  I would think that if the war went badly enough they would want us to keep and bear arms....

I think Imbrog|io is right. You got to keep firearms out of the hands of those Chinese-Americans.



(I hope everyone picked up on the sarcasim)

So do you think it would go nuclear right away or would we get involved in another land war?

I dont think it WILL be serious enough to turn into a nuclear OR land war. I think it will be a conflict that will last about as long as the Gulf War did.

I dont think ANYONE thinks that a land war with China would be smart, and I dont think anyone thinks it would be smart for the Chinese to fire nukes at us.

I'm betting that we will hit them from the sea and by air power launched from Japan. They can't touch us in either one of those types of warfare, and at the same time, it would be very devastating to them.

The only way I see a good ol infantry battle, is if they take Taiwan (or attempt to).

My 2 cents

It don't matter, cause I won't go fight for this government.  As a gen-X'er, one of the youth that would have to fight, cause you baby boomers are old, I would not pick up a M16 for the US Federal government.  
If they don't trust me with one at home, why do they trust me in Asia?  
If hillary, shumer, boxer, and Difi don't believe citizens should own firearms, they can send their kids to fight and die.
 I already pay 1/2 of my income to them, they can pay someone else.  
If I am expected to be a sheep at home, how do they expect me to become a warrior on the battlefield???

That is how we can turn the tide on gun control.  Not fighting for a system that tries to disarm you and I.  What can the Anti's say? We won't pick up the guns to defend them?
Fuck um.  
c-rock
[url]www.illinois-shooter.org

i think a invasion of the united stated mainland would be real good for RKBA.

Heck, I'll fight, if for no other reason than the **************CENSORED***************

U.S. halts all military contacts with China - CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/05/02/us.china.contacts/index.html

I'd go too, sorry I was raised to hate communists and hate them I will, until the last drop of life leaves my body--I will fight them.  Here or there, I will fight them.

c-rock-  So you would not go fight for your country because liberals want to take your guns away? Either way, Americans will be sent, and Americans will die. Some of your friends and family members will be sent also. Are you going to let them go alone or are you going to go help them? It's not the gov't youd be "fucking," it would be them, when they need you the most.

It would be most benecfial to rid your own abode of vermin first.

It would never happen.  Where would K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Disneyland, Mcdonald's, Toys-R-Us etc get all of those cheap toys, appliances, clothes, and nick-nacks etc.  Since they don't manufacture these products in the U.S., we well be screwed.

Gun control would go along great with a mainland chinese invasion here, then they wouldn't have any resistance and we can finally turn this place into the soicalist utopia we've always dreamed of but had way too many or way too few letters spelling our last names to carry out.

The Chinese could lose 3,000,000 soldiers and be happy about it. Kind of a delayed birth control.
I'd stand and fight.

Keep your eyes on the new European Union...the third way of Blair and Clinton and Newt Ginrich are giving rise to the third way a philophic/economic hybrid of communism and capitalism..at least that is what their public relation people say..truth is the third way is really the fourth reich..and Germany is leading the way..the EU will shed no tears over the demise of the USA the EU will then become the new world power..the commies are forging new alliances...Russia and China and N Korea China has build the biggest container port in the world 80 miles off our coastline...it also has the worlds longest runways..short range nuke missles are a cinch to be off our shores shortly..Jiang just met with Castro..who is deliver Central and South American commies to the Chinese war effort..The Chinese control the Panama Canal have close ties to Mexico who thanks to NAFTA haul tens of thousands of un inspected semi tractor trailers accross our borders daily..Bush just signed a bill allowing mexican truck drivers access to all of our highways and states not just contiguous to our borders..When the attack comes it will go tactical nuke ..the Russians will hit us from the north and the Chinese Cubans Nicaraguans from the South the Vietnamese will supply troops as will the north koreans..the Arabs will contribute finanances and the EU will stand idely by..we have few friends left who will fight for us..and will mostly stand by to see who wins and suck up to the winners...The US dollar right now keeps the EU from being invested in and they dont like it..when we are gone they and their currency will be where the worlds money will be invested that and the yen..as far as markets go we wil be missed on a  temporary basis ..as the EuroUnion has assured its main partners of solid trading contracts and its junior members the same..asians will prosper Europeans will too and the  emerging markets of latin and South America and Asia will begin to make up for the loss of american markets..we will be somewhat missed for a while...do some research on former joint chief of staff Admiral Moorer has to say along with a few other conservatives .. you might be shocked but not surprised

I would fight for my country, and if Candians start comming over Lake Michigian, I would be on shoreline with my own AR15.  
Fighting for the Federal government is not my idea of fighting for my country.
When a cop can arrest you for not wearing your seatbelt, or how I cannot legally own a new m16, or a brand new USGI mag, why go fight for a government that tries every day to take more of my rights, my cash from me?
MY friends, my family won't be over there to fight for the Shummers, the Boxers, Difi's of the USA.  
Why go risk my life for them, when they will work while I am over there to take more of my freedoms away?  

Any Gunowner that would go over in a War is plain stupid.  
Think what the baby boomers did during Nam, they were the ones to fight, and they stopped the war. How, they did not go and fight.  They brought change to the USA.  
My generation, and the ones following can do the same.
c-rock

c-rock- You are no better than a coward draft dodger. I would have held back that comment, if it werent for your comment about "stupid" gun owners fightin for their country. Fuck you.

death_by_ar15: take the guns away fron the chinese americans? do you know your history? the us govt. tried that with the japanese-americans in ww2, even imprisoned them, look where that got them. they now admit that was one of their worst mistakes.

hummm, won't pick up an M16 for this government, darn I carred an M60 for Carter. Well if it comes to it I have two kids that I want to stay at home so I'll go. Been there done that and I'm better with a 16 anyway. I wonder sometimes about the kids today.

Rew

Hey, quit trying to make me into a sheep, quit disarming me, quit taxing 1/2 my salary, quit spending my money I put into FICA on the old folks SS checks.  Quit trying to pay for old people's drugs, quit sending our army's to be the world's policeman.
Also, quit blaming the youth for all of american's problems!!
I love my country, and work to make it better.  I vote every election, write my congresscritters, pay my taxes, obey the laws, hell I even help little old ladies across the street.  

Thing that gets to me is, if they extect me to pick up a millitary firearm, I want to be able to own one in my home. Each year in Illinois, they try and ban ar15's. Same with Mags. If you don' turn them in, you become a felon. If the system is trying to make me into a felon, fuck fighting 3000 miles away for them.  
Right now, I cannot find a m16 less than 15 hys old. I can't own a USGI mag less than 6 years old.  
They can buy as many as they want with my tax dollars.  

Also, look at the guys that got sick in Nam, or even in Desert Storm.  How am I going to fight for my rights, if I am in a hospital bed?  

Again, if they expect me to be a good little sheep, and dial 911 for help, then I will stay in my nice house, and go "baa".  
Sheep cannot be warriors, they cannot be leaders.  
They just go "baa".

Now, in saying that, you all know how I feel.  If it really came down to it, and chinesse invaded the USA. I would fight.  After we kicked them out, I would never turn back in my m16.  
c-rock

 

The kids today have grown up with Waco, Clinton, Reno. They know the government is f*cked up, why would they want to fight for it? Besides, the chinese people are not our enemies, they are just victums of their own f*cked up government like us. People everywhere are just like us. They want to live happily, have kids, watch their children grow. It's governments that screw everything up and create enemies where there are none. Would I go to China to fight? F*ck no. Would I fight an invading force? Hell yeah. By the way, I'm no kid, 37 bday coming up and gave 12 years of my life to the USMC. At this point in my life I'm making & raising kids, last thing I want is a war with China. Now 10 years ago, I would have gone anywhere and done anything the government told me to do, not anymore.

So what you are saying [b]C-Rock[/b] is that you won't help the country you live in now because it didn't help you???
I believe its "Dont ask what the country can do for you, ask what you can do for the country"

You little winey, napster stealing, Abercrombey and finch wearing, snowboard using, couldn't change a tire if his life depended on it, baby prick.


BISHOP

back to the topic, if we went to war with china, we eould be in deep s*it.they are more than 10 times our #s

as far as going nuklear, dont think so. we may nuke them but they would then need our land and resourses more than ever before, therfore they would be more motivated.but they wouldn't nuke us.

The Chinese could try to invade Taiwan. By the time we geared up Taiwan would be reduced to guerillas in the hills.
That is the only way I see us fighting China.
Sending our boys to die saving Chinese kids would be very unpopular, so we would retreat and boycott Chinese goods. This would really hurt the Chinese.

Do you remember how long it took the Allies to build up the men and material necessary for the invasion of Normandy? And the English channel is about 60 miles across

An invasion of China by us,or an invasion of the US by China is highly unlikely.
Any War would be an Air and Naval engagement, that I pray doesn't escalate into a nuclear exchange, IMHO.

As far as a war and gun laws are concerned, I've found myself thinging that a War is just what is needed to put things back into perspective. Horrible thought, that I don't hope for and pray never happens.

Dude thats not true, think about it.
If a bunch of damn communist kick Americas but you think the left wing would be mad about it?
It would make there day.

Bishop, you are a short-sighted person to judge my friend C-rock as a coward.The only government that I will raise arms against is my own, when it comes time.
  The U.S. of the last generation is dead, the big corporation's now control every aspect of human exsistance, from changing demographics,i.e cheap mexican labor,to the sludge that american school children stuff themsleves with. You need to wake up and realize you are nothing but a cog in the money machine, you are a consumer, nothing more.The links of your mental bondage have been placed on one link at a time, you cant perceive what is happening until its to late. You have become a sheeple. I dont believe everything uncle scam tells me, I wont conform, and I will question authority because its my duty and right.




"If I am expected to be a sheep at home, how do they expect me to become a warrior on the battlefield"-c-rock

Bishop, you are a short-sighted person to judge my friend C-rock as a coward.The only government that I will raise arms against is my own, when it comes time.
  The U.S. of the last generation is dead, the big corporation's now control every aspect of human exsistance, from changing demographics,i.e cheap mexican labor,to the sludge that american school children stuff themsleves with. You need to wake up and realize you are nothing but a cog in the money machine, you are a consumer, nothing more.The links of your mental bondage have been placed on one link at a time, you cant perceive what is happening until its to late. You have become a sheeple. I dont believe everything uncle scam tells me, I wont conform, and I will question authority because its my duty and right.


http://www.ranchrescue.com

"If I am expected to be a sheep at home, how do they expect me to become a warrior on the battlefield"-c-rock

I'd have to agree with C-Rock in some respects.  Our form of government is hardly worth fighting for any more.  Who is willing to fight to be a slave to the state?  What are we protecting anymore? Millions of sheeple who welcome socialism with open arms? I sure don't see the ballot box as a viable method of restoring our country to greatness again since the idiots outnumber the people who have logical thought.  The enemy within is far worse than China.  At least you know what China is while most don't recognize how dangerous our own government is due to its propaganda machine.  Our government and China's are similar in many ways.  Their methods are different but the result the same. I would have to stand and fight anyone who trys to invade our country however, but they are already here.  Perhaps we could let a few nukes slip by and clean out DC before we sent the troups out.

That quote you gave is from a democrat sir.  I aint no democrat.  I will help my neighboor, my friends, even my own country, but not the federal government.  
Yes, I am a baby, you are a old man. Who fights the wars? The young.
This youngin has less rights, less freedoms than you did when you were my age, which was in the stone ages it sounds. Less rights, less freedoms mean less responsibity to fight for this government.

I pay more taxes than a person your age (Social Security), I also have to cover my own retirement.  
I cannot own a brand new m16 legally as a citizien, why would want to pick one up as a conscript?  
Tell me that.  

Why would I fight for a government that was elected by less than 50% of the adult voting population??  
If 51% of the citizens wont even get off the sofa to VOTE for the man that might send their fathers, brothers, sons to their deaths, why risk my hide?
Anti's do not believe I or you should own guns, fine, then go pick one up and defend your pricipals in China.
I am stay home and being a good little sheep, and shag the good looking ones while they go die for less freedoms, less rights when they get back.

Also, you talk about no more compirmises on gun contol, well this is my way of doing it. No guns, no fighting from me.



 
c-rock

I think I read that China has only a dozen or so nukes. I'm not sure if they have ICBM's that will reach the CONUS. I am sure they won't hit what they aim at, unless it's an entire city.

If they did do the unthinkable and lobbed a warhead our way I think we'd reduce the worlds population by at least 1.4 billion Chinese.

I only hope China's senile leaders don't make the first move. This would *not* be anything like WWII!

I can't believe you people.  Not fighting for the US?  Damn, you need to go to some 3rd world countries and realize that even though 50 percent of our country is snibbling cowardaly panty waste, we still have the greatest democracy in the world.  At this point it is well worth fighting to defend.  We have the greatest freedom in the world.  Fighting for our way of life will keep us from suffering the same fate as the Jews in WWII....extinction!  

I'm not even the least bit happy about what's going on in the US today, but I will fight.  I appreciate the dwindling freedom I have now.  We can still stand up and call Billy Klinton what he is, a POS liberal and not get shot.  You know it's hard to teach the sheeple what's best for them, but they will come back to our side when we stop the chinks from invading our country because we are well armed.  Nuff said.

Bishop & Like minded individuals,

Why should I fight the Chinese?  
Our "leaders" give them most favored nation trading status.

Our "leaders" give them a billion+ trade surplus.

Our "leaders" praise them for making all of their "citizens" equal.

Our "leaders" let them have our nuclear weapon secrets.

Our "leaders" give their students free educations in our universities paid for by our taxes.

Our "leaders" have sold us, myself included, down the damm river!

Why should I go and fight the Chinese when our "leaders" have been taking it up the [email protected]@ from them for years and then passing the favor to us?

Screw "ask not what your country can do for you…" bs.  That is a complete socialist line of bs if I have ever heard one! Are you a socialist?

And I don't want any thing from my country other then what the constitution spells out very clearly.

If the commies invade the US in ANY way (more likely then most think, especially through the Chinese {AKA Panama} Canal) I'd be down at the MEP's station in a matter of hours.  Other then that, there is not a friggen way I'm going to do the dirty work of our scumbag "leaders"!

If you call me a chicken or any similar adjective for expressing my thoughts then you better be able to hit harder and faster then me because we'll be going toe-to-toe.



edited for spelling

I can't believe you people.  Not fighting for the US?  Damn, you need to go to some 3rd world countries and realize that even though 50 percent of our country is snibbling cowardaly panty waste, we still have the greatest democracy in the world.  At this point it is well worth fighting to defend.  We have the greatest freedom in the world.  Fighting for our way of life will keep us from suffering the same fate as the Jews in WWII....extinction!  

I'm not even the least bit happy about what's going on in the US today, but I will fight.  I appreciate the dwindling freedom I have now.  We can still stand up and call Billy Klinton what he is, a POS liberal and not get shot.  You know it's hard to teach the sheeple what's best for them, but they will come back to our side when we stop the chinks from invading our country because we are well armed.  Nuff said.

"To defeat one's enemy without battle is the highest art of war."  You folks need to read SUN Tzu.  China will run psyops on us until that no longer gets them what they want.  I think and hope that they know in any conflict (which will be an air and naval war) wee will turn their homeland into a radioactive parking lot.  If they think that they can cow us with the nuke threat, they will.  9divdoc, you are right on the money with this Fourth Reich idea.  Remember that the GErmans and Chinese have been economically tight with each other for a century, and that EVERYBODY wants a piece of America's @ss, and this thread becomes very dark indeed.  c-rock, I desagree with you as far as actions to take, but I understand and agree with your anger at this baby socialist gov't......................

I can't believe you people.  Not fighting for the US?  Damn, you need to go to some 3rd world countries and realize that even though 50 percent of our country is snibbling cowardaly panty waste, we still have the greatest democracy in the world.  At this point it is well worth fighting to defend.  We have the greatest freedom in the world.  Fighting for our way of life will keep us from suffering the same fate as the Jews in WWII....extinction!  

I'm not even the least bit happy about what's going on in the US today, but I will fight.  I appreciate the dwindling freedom I have now.  We can still stand up and call Billy Klinton what he is, a POS liberal and not get shot.  You know it's hard to teach the sheeple what's best for them, but they will come back to our side when we stop the chinks from invading our country because we are well armed.  Nuff said.

I can't believe you people.  Not fighting for the US?  Damn, you need to go to some 3rd world countries and realize that even though 50 percent of our country is snibbling cowardaly panty waste, we still have the greatest democracy in the world.  At this point it is well worth fighting to defend.  We have the greatest freedom in the world.  Fighting for our way of life will keep us from suffering the same fate as the Jews in WWII....extinction!  

I'm not even the least bit happy about what's going on in the US today, but I will fight.  I appreciate the dwindling freedom I have now.  We can still stand up and call Billy Klinton what he is, a POS liberal and not get shot.  You know it's hard to teach the sheeple what's best for them, but they will come back to our side when we stop the chinks from invading our country because we are well armed.  Nuff said.

if it is "nuff said" why did you post it three times? [:)]

I don't see where we have any more freedom than most European countrys (which we fought a war with not to be like).  We are financially better off than many (third world) countries but that will change with time.  The closer we become like the rest, which looks inevitable with the Feds propaganda machine, the less will to fight you will see.  This I believe is why many countrys have failed to win battles and wars.  They did not believe that the enemy's government was any worse than theirs.

Man,
I love debating this shit!!!


Ok, how this. This past week, the head of a alphabet fed exc department, defy a federal court order by fdisking her laptop.  All the info is gone, no backup.
Is she is jail? No, how about for contempt of court, no.  

So, one branch is not playing by the rules.
Or how about the Church in Indiana getting the shaft? OR How about I was taught as a kid that all are equal under the law, and all play by the same rules?  
If the EPA lady can get away with it, and a  billionare can buy off Willie, why fight?  

I not saying to drop out like some hippie, or go rioting in the street like they do in qubec, but why risk my hide for some system that keeps on thinking I am a bad guy?

Sure, I own guns, I like shooting, I like to blast around, and if I had to defend myself or my home, I could do it.

but I am  also able to say I won't pick one up for the chance to fight for "dwindling freedoms."  


I have been to places in this world, that is not the point.
Point is, people are saying 20-30 years from now, there won't be guns in the hands of cilivians.
Cali was a stepping point. Etc.

Well 20 yrs is a long time for a government not to have it young go fight a war for it.  Especially in america. Almost each generation of its citizens have had to serve since birth.
Demands can be made if one side is at a disavantge.  
The old guys that send the young off to die are the ones that need me.

c-rock

I think that in that scenario the Port of Los Angeles (San Pedro) would be key. If I remember correctly, it is their biggest port in the U.S. [after Todd (ship builder) went out of business]. This would be ideal as it is geographically close to El Segundo the nations largest concentration of aerospace companies, etc. like: The Aerospace Company, Hughes, Rockwell, TRW, Northrup-Grumman, and various misc. semiconductor companies (e.g.- International Rectifier).

Not a good thing!!

Good insight ..Bobby V.

You are right C-Rock, Beserker, and mtnpatriot.  When/IF an invading force comes to invade our country I'll lay down my 30yr old ass and let the COUNTRY go to hell.  
I NEVER said anything about our Guberment(I'll fight them too), but you FIRST have to preserve what you have in order to change it.  
So what you guys are saying is that you are going to be the first to catch that flight to Canada, or the other neutral countries, just so you don't have to worry about having to take ANY initiative to at least keep what you have...
Mabey C-Rock shouldn't have a real M-16.  He wouldn't know what to do with it...


BISHOP

Hey man, I LIVE ON THE WEST COAST!

I where Abercrombie, use napster, and snowboard, gotta problem w/ me?

And no, I probably couldn't change a tire. (that's what my woman is for, j/k)

I'm with C-Rock on this one...