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Posted: 9/19/2009 7:56:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 7:56:14 AM EST by raven]
Like......Sweden?

Sweden slashes income tax further to boost jobs
Sep 19 07:58 AM US/Eastern

Sweden's centre-right government on Saturday announced income tax cuts of 10 billion kronor to stimulate the job market, its primary objective.
Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt and three other ministers in the four-party coalition said the reduction would mean most wage earners would have 200 to 250 kronor (20 to 25 euros, 29 to 36 dollars) more in take-home pay every month.
The proposal, to be presented to parliament on Monday as part of the 2010 budget bill, is the fourth leg of a tax cut programme introduced in January 2007 to stimulate employment.
The fourth leg would enter into force on January 1, 2010.
With that step, 99 percent of full-time employees will have had their taxes reduced by a total of 1,000 kronor per month, while 75 percent will have had reductions of 1,500 kronor, the government said.

"The coalition government has agreed on reforms for jobs and entrepreneurialism that will increase employment in the long-term. It has to be more profitable to work and more companies should be able to hire employees," the government said.

Since coming to power in late 2006, the government has launched a series of measures aimed at inciting Swedes to return to the job market instead of living off of state subsidies.
But instead of declining Sweden's unemployment rate has risen, from 5.7 percent in August 2006 to 8.0 percent in August 2009. Much of the increase has been attributed to the international economic crisis.
The government said it would also propose a series of measures in the budget bill aimed at boosting incentives to start companies and improve the business climate.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.a3018ceef6a0590e0fe87c97c608ebdc.4b1&show_article=1
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:58:49 AM EST
Why not fight for the one you belong in?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:59:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:00:37 AM EST by ae1]
Do you suppose they'll want you there?

Remember all the libs in 2004 saying, "If Bush wins, I'm moving to Canada!"? I don't think they were wanted there.

Anyway, I was going to say, "Enjoy your depression-fighting sun lamp in Sweden," but then you were from Alaska.

Ruining my quips...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:59:40 AM EST
They also refused to bail out their failing car company, Saab
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:00:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:01:32 AM EST by Deej86]

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

This.

And besides doesn't Sweden have a high tax rate already? What with all that socialized health care? If you're a pregnant woman you get a ton of maternity leave but you pay for it with your taxes.

Good luck though.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:02:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:02:26 AM EST by Star_Scream]
The food sucks there.

Not enough mexicans or asians to have decent food.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:03:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:03:35 AM EST by raven]
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

This.




Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:03:33 AM EST
That is exactly what the Libs want. They want all Conservatives to leave so that they will own the country and make it into a Liberal haven where only the Rich work and pay taxes and everyone else lives off of the fruits of the Rich.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:04:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

This.




Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

So fight to change it!

Get involved in government, write your senators and representatives. Saying "fuck this, I'm going to move to Sweden" isn't doing anything to fix the "game."
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:04:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

This.




Don't hate the player. Hate the game.


Don't run away;fight the flight.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:04:53 AM EST
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:06:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:08:07 AM EST by MEH]
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:07:14 AM EST
More Conservative ? as in Iran or Saudia Arabi ? exactly where would you go ?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:08:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

That attitude wasn't the attitude to have when King George III was screwing over the American colonists.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:08:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By hotbiggun42:
More Conservative ? as in Iran or Saudia Arabi ? exactly where would you go ?


Wrong type of Conservatives...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:09:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.


Thats why you have to reclaim the country.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:12:21 AM EST
Where would you move to you? I had a friend the other day say he was going to move, but to where? Most of the world is a shit hole, so that's out. Western Europe is semi-scoialist which is the reason he was talking about leaving the US, so that's out. What's left? Japan? Maybe Dubai? Can anybody name a country that isn't commie-lite or a shit hole? I think the US is about it.

Besides, did you read that little article the OP posted. You would have $29 more a month in take home pay? Sweeet, I can buy 1/2 a tank of gas.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:12:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

That attitude wasn't the attitude to have when King George III was screwing over the American colonists.


I don't believe moving to another country would help... I was just stating that I understand how he feels.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:12:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


This.

You leave = they win = NOT ACCEPTABLE.

We fight to keep our freedom.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:14:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Don't let the door hit you on the ass....



Why are you still here.


you Non american sell out
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:14:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:15:30 AM EST by Deej86]

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

That attitude wasn't the attitude to have when King George III was screwing over the American colonists.


I don't believe moving to another country would help... I was just stating that I understand how he feels.

So do I...I wonder myself sometimes if it's even worth it to save stuff that's too far gone(i,e,. Chicago and Illinois) but we've been fighting for over 200 years. We haven't tossed in the towel yet.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:16:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.


Thats why you have to reclaim the country.


What do you suggest we do? Kick the liberals out? Don't let them vote? That's not the type of country I want to live in... Unfortunately, when you live in a free country, you have to accept the fact that the stupid, greedy, and lazy people can vote too... I guess we're screwed.

Pardon my pessimism, I'm having a lousy day.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:17:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By uxo2:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Don't let the door hit you on the ass....



Why are you still here.


you Non american sell out


You better be talking to OP.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:18:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.


Thats why you have to reclaim the country.


What do you suggest we do? Kick the liberals out? Don't let them vote? That's not the type of country I want to live in... Unfortunately, when you live in a free country, you have to accept the fact that the stupid, greedy, and lazy people can vote too... I guess we're screwed.

Pardon my pessimism, I'm having a lousy day.
I hear ya, sometimes "freedom" can bite you in the arse.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:20:57 AM EST
Stand and fight!! We are still the greatest country in the world...we have to fight to keep ours. One President and 600 lawmakers can be defeated by We the People!!

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed regular Coke to that God awful "New" Coke?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed the speed limit to 55? NO!! Did we just throw up our hands when they cancelled tv shows Andy Griffith and Three's company? NO!! We just kept fighting and kept winning.

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:21:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
Like......Sweden?

Sweden slashes income tax further to boost jobs
Sep 19 07:58 AM US/Eastern

Sweden's centre-right government on Saturday announced income tax cuts of 10 billion kronor to stimulate the job market, its primary objective.
Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt and three other ministers in the four-party coalition said the reduction would mean most wage earners would have 200 to 250 kronor (20 to 25 euros, 29 to 36 dollars) more in take-home pay every month.
The proposal, to be presented to parliament on Monday as part of the 2010 budget bill, is the fourth leg of a tax cut programme introduced in January 2007 to stimulate employment.
The fourth leg would enter into force on January 1, 2010.
With that step, 99 percent of full-time employees will have had their taxes reduced by a total of 1,000 kronor per month, while 75 percent will have had reductions of 1,500 kronor, the government said.

"The coalition government has agreed on reforms for jobs and entrepreneurialism that will increase employment in the long-term. It has to be more profitable to work and more companies should be able to hire employees," the government said.

Since coming to power in late 2006, the government has launched a series of measures aimed at inciting Swedes to return to the job market instead of living off of state subsidies.
But instead of declining Sweden's unemployment rate has risen, from 5.7 percent in August 2006 to 8.0 percent in August 2009. Much of the increase has been attributed to the international economic crisis.
The government said it would also propose a series of measures in the budget bill aimed at boosting incentives to start companies and improve the business climate.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.a3018ceef6a0590e0fe87c97c608ebdc.4b1&show_article=1


I really hope most everyone here realizes that Sweden is a full on, socialist country. They are more to the left than the Democrats want to take this country.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:21:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?


Seriously..try living in NY.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:22:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Burntrubber87:
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?


Seriously..try living in NY.
At least you can have a carry permit in NYS.



Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:22:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?


Winter is coming
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:22:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.


Thats why you have to reclaim the country.


What do you suggest we do? Kick the liberals out? Don't let them vote? That's not the type of country I want to live in... Unfortunately, when you live in a free country, you have to accept the fact that the stupid, greedy, and lazy people can vote too... I guess we're screwed.

Pardon my pessimism, I'm having a lousy day.
I hear ya, sometimes "freedom" can bite you in the arse.



You got that right! Freedom isn't easy, but it's wonderful.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:23:32 AM EST
Sweden already has extraordinarily high taxes. Cutting them will be temporary and probably not even bring them close to our lower rates.

Remember, they already have socialized medicine. One day I'll tell you about the free "surgery" I had while visiting...

Eric
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:23:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Like......Sweden?

Sweden slashes income tax further to boost jobs
Sep 19 07:58 AM US/Eastern

Sweden's centre-right government on Saturday announced income tax cuts of 10 billion kronor to stimulate the job market, its primary objective.
Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt and three other ministers in the four-party coalition said the reduction would mean most wage earners would have 200 to 250 kronor (20 to 25 euros, 29 to 36 dollars) more in take-home pay every month.
The proposal, to be presented to parliament on Monday as part of the 2010 budget bill, is the fourth leg of a tax cut programme introduced in January 2007 to stimulate employment.
The fourth leg would enter into force on January 1, 2010.
With that step, 99 percent of full-time employees will have had their taxes reduced by a total of 1,000 kronor per month, while 75 percent will have had reductions of 1,500 kronor, the government said.

"The coalition government has agreed on reforms for jobs and entrepreneurialism that will increase employment in the long-term. It has to be more profitable to work and more companies should be able to hire employees," the government said.

Since coming to power in late 2006, the government has launched a series of measures aimed at inciting Swedes to return to the job market instead of living off of state subsidies.
But instead of declining Sweden's unemployment rate has risen, from 5.7 percent in August 2006 to 8.0 percent in August 2009. Much of the increase has been attributed to the international economic crisis.
The government said it would also propose a series of measures in the budget bill aimed at boosting incentives to start companies and improve the business climate.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.a3018ceef6a0590e0fe87c97c608ebdc.4b1&show_article=1
Income tax in Sweden is like 60 percent...
Try again.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:24:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2009 8:24:24 AM EST by raven]
I think I should have just titled this thread "Sweden slashes tax rates". I just found it ironic that the country liberals have held up as an example for the United States to emulate for my entire life is abandoning the welfare state and embracing supply side economic policies.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:24:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Stand and fight!! We are still the greatest country in the world...we have to fight to keep ours. One President and 600 lawmakers can be defeated by We the People!!

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed regular Coke to that God awful "New" Coke?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed the speed limit to 55? NO!! Did we just throw up our hands when they cancelled tv shows Andy Griffith and Three's company? NO!! We just kept fighting and kept winning.

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!


When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:24:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Maybe because there are to many leeches in this country that won't let the rest of us succeed.

ETA: I'm not moving to Sweden.


Thats why you have to reclaim the country.


What do you suggest we do? Kick the liberals out? Don't let them vote? That's not the type of country I want to live in... Unfortunately, when you live in a free country, you have to accept the fact that the stupid, greedy, and lazy people can vote too... I guess we're screwed.

Pardon my pessimism, I'm having a lousy day.


No,just wait till they hoist themselves on their own petard and vote good people in 2010.If all this legislation goes through(including legalizing aliens) and the same crew is in after the elections load mags.All bets are off;even Carter was a one term POS.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:24:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By Burntrubber87:
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?


Seriously..try living in NY.
At least you can have a carry permit in NYS.





Yeah, well you still need two different licenses(Pistol permit and CCW) and from what I hear a pretty good reason to ccw. does it suck in IL?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:24:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Stand and fight!! We are still the greatest country in the world...we have to fight to keep ours. One President and 600 lawmakers can be defeated by We the People!!

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed regular Coke to that God awful "New" Coke?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed the speed limit to 55? NO!! Did we just throw up our hands when they cancelled tv shows Andy Griffith and Three's company? NO!! We just kept fighting and kept winning.

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!


When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?
Satire.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:25:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By raven:
I think I should have just titled this thread "Sweden slashes tax rates". I just found it ironic that the country liberals have held up as an example for the United States to emulate for my entire life is abandoning the welfare state and embracing supply side economic policies.


sarcasm seems to fly over a lot of heads here.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:25:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Stand and fight!! We are still the greatest country in the world...we have to fight to keep ours. One President and 600 lawmakers can be defeated by We the People!!

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed regular Coke to that God awful "New" Coke?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed the speed limit to 55? NO!! Did we just throw up our hands when they cancelled tv shows Andy Griffith and Three's company? NO!! We just kept fighting and kept winning.

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!


When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?
Satire.



Ahhh...
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:25:56 AM EST
Sweden has been real happy to accept immigrants by the boatloads...

now crime is soaring.


Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:26:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Eric_Mayer:
Sweden already has extraordinarily high taxes. Cutting them will be temporary and probably not even bring them close to our lower rates.

Remember, they already have socialized medicine. One day I'll tell you about the free "surgery" I had while visiting...

Eric


Was that brain salad surgery?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:26:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By uxo2:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


Don't let the door hit you on the ass....

Why are you still here.

you Non american sell out


I know, right? Like most good manly men, you should stay here while getting f#$&ed in the a$$ by the divorce courts, never seeing your kids again, constant commercials showing how stupid men are, and the never-ending barrage of liberal bullshit turning this nation into marxist Russia. All the while the Ted Kennedy / Bill Clinton / Woody Allen types are telling you you're a sell out.

My God, why would you want to leave this haven, raven?

Originally Posted By DSRV:

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?


This.

You leave = they win = NOT ACCEPTABLE.

We fight to keep our freedom.





Yeah, like we've fought so hard for our gun "rights"? Or maybe Father's Rights? Or no, I remember now, it's for low taxation and freedom to peacably assemble without government permits. No,...I got it. It's to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures - not like Cuba or Venezuela where they can set up check-points, verify your 'papers, please', and have carte blanche to do or search whatever they want in the name of a war on some chemicals? Yeah, that's it!


Last year alone, 2 MILLION people fled the United States. Its been growing every year for almost two decades. Kenny Rogers said it most melodically: you have to know when to hold and know when to fold.


This Nation, barring a miracle, IS going to collapse. Feminization has accomplished its goals. A lot of "naysayers" are just pissed that they're too afraid to leave due to their comfort-zone. You know, "freedom" = "good standard of living."

But: AVOID SWEDEN. USA and Sweden trade places yearly for the most fucked up female populations on earth (mental illness, depression, suicide, infanticide, etc), and that AIN'T no good sign.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:27:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!!

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!





Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:28:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

America can not be saved.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:29:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By MEH:
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Stand and fight!! We are still the greatest country in the world...we have to fight to keep ours. One President and 600 lawmakers can be defeated by We the People!!

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed regular Coke to that God awful "New" Coke?? NO!! Did we give up when they changed the speed limit to 55? NO!! Did we just throw up our hands when they cancelled tv shows Andy Griffith and Three's company? NO!! We just kept fighting and kept winning.

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!


When did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor?
Satire.



Ahhh...


You've never seen Animal House??? And the quote is from Patton..except he said God would not deny him of his destiny!
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:29:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Burntrubber87:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By Burntrubber87:
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
You live in Alaska, what the fuck are you bitching about?


Seriously..try living in NY.
At least you can have a carry permit in NYS.





Yeah, well you still need two different licenses(Pistol permit and CCW) and from what I hear a pretty good reason to ccw. does it suck in IL?

The "right" to carry is nonexistent unless you are a Chicago alderman or a retired cop and good luck if you go to Chicago and try to use your "right" to carry if you are a retired cop, and you need a Firearm Owners ID card to own guns and ammo.

The FOID act was created in the 60s to keep black people from owning guns.

It's a good lesson in how gun control is counterproductive.

But at least except for NYC, you can have the "right" to carry, yes?
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:29:59 AM EST
This thread amuses me.

Guy wants to move to Sweden, everybody says, "NO! Stay and fight!"

But in any one of the weekly california bashing threads, those of us who live and work (and sometimes prosper) in california are told to, and I quote: "Get the fuck out!" Some of us, and many more than ARFCOM GD thinks, are staying behind here and fighting the fight.

Go figure.

-Gator
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:30:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By Deej86:

Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
Why not fight for the one you belong in?

This.




Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

So fight to change it!

Get involved in government, write your senators and representatives. Saying "fuck this, I'm going to move to Sweden" isn't doing anything to fix the "game."





And if the game isnt winable? By design?

This isnt directed at you Deej86, just taking a line from your post to make a point.


Dont get me wrong, Im the first guy to fight the good fight...but a time comes when you need to evaluate the landscape.
The ideals that the founding fathers gave their lives for no longer exist in America...they are gone, and have been for a long time.
We enjoy the distant remnnants of the freedoms which the framers intended.

Is it 'patriotic' to fight for something which cannot be obtained? or is that just futile?
I dont advocate cutting and running but I will tell you this....I wont be a part of the socialist experiment that this nation seems to want to undertake. If the overwhelming majority of Americans want eastern european, 70's style socialism, then so be it....but I wont be playing....and if I decide to take my ball and go home it has nothing to do with a lack of patriotism......it has to do with the fact that there is nothing worth fighting for left. A patriot defends the honor and ideals of his homeland....but if his homeland ceases to possess honor or compatible ideals, what exactly would be gained by fighting?

There was a time when people fought because there was a base beneath them who hoped and prayed for a victory in their name.
That base has eroded to the point of existing purely as a minority.
Like it or not, the majority of modern Americans dont want what many of the membership here do....and that sucks.....but its a fact, evidenced by the current players in Washington.

Were Jews in Poland, Ukraine, Germany, etc.....who ran for their lives from the Nazi regime in the 30's unpatriotic?
Was certain death the honorable thing to advance toward? or was saving their wives and children a wiser priority?

I dont have the answers....but I also dont have the blind faith to battle forward onto a field where there isnt an exit in a direction I ever wanted to go in the first place. Frankly, this isnt a simple issue.....not as easy as 'yes' or 'no', 'black' or 'white'. There is much grey area.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:30:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By uxo2:
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?? NO!!

All my life, I have wanted to take a group of desperate men into a desperate battle...and I know that God will not stop my destiny!!







Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:31:41 AM EST
Maybe it's time we did what our Founding Fathers did .Discover new land claim it as our own and start over . I am thinking Cuba . It wouldnt take long to assimulate the native Island people .It could be Paradise !
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:31:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
Sweden has been real happy to accept immigrants by the boatloads...

now crime is soaring.



They also have universal health care.
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