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Posted: 1/19/2015 7:41:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 7:44:50 PM EST by Danj]
I realize the failed attempt changed the way the military prepared for things like that. How much better are we at conducting an operation like that today?

Where the fuck can I get a rocket assisted C 130?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:41:51 PM EST
Couldn't be any worse than a Russian response.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:45:14 PM EST
Numb nuts in chief would pay them off first.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:46:32 PM EST
Well.....for one......we now have a President today who seems to favor terrorists......especially those of a certain religious persuasion ......so I guess that answers that question.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:46:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 7:48:41 PM EST by retgarr]
Well Ospreys seem like they might be useful.

And everybody who makes another cliche post after this about Obama being the big difference desires to be a model for a Tom of Finland dirty sanchez scene.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 7:47:59 PM EST by EngageTangos]
The CV-22 would prove its worth.

ETA beat by mere seconds.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:40 PM EST
Since we managed to find a president actually WORSE than Carter...

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:42 PM EST
We had Carter then, and we have Carter now.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:45 PM EST
It would be the same or worse. That failed raid was the wake up call that made our special forces what they are today.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:53 PM EST
invalid question.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:47:54 PM EST
Who knows all the goodies that SOAR has that we don't know about.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:48:35 PM EST
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:49:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Danj:
I realize the failed attempt changed the way the military prepared for things like that. How much better are we at conducting an operation like that today?

Where the fuck can I get a rocket assisted C 130?
View Quote

Lock Mart
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:50:55 PM EST
Everyone interested in this should read the book "The guts to try".

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:50:59 PM EST
If Bush (father or son) or Reagan was in office, it would have been pulled off. With Best Dear Leader, we would have surrendered.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:52:20 PM EST
FBHO hasn't gutted our SOF capability lthe way Carter and Stansfield Turner did
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:53:55 PM EST
As awful as it sounds,I think the Desert One failure was a terrible blessing in disguise. I have severe doubts that the entire plan would have worked,many,many more lives would have been lost and there would have only been political will to accept defeat as no way would Carter have risked a full blown war with Iran.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:54:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VACaver:
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place.
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Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch.

I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:55:13 PM EST
How many pretty daring military special operations has Obama authorized?

Going by this thread, I would think the answer was zero.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:56:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chris_C:


Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch.

I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran.
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Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Originally Posted By VACaver:
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place.


Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch.

I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran.


hostage rescue is more complex than assassination.
way more complex.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:56:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Caboose314:
Who knows all the goodies that SOAR has that we don't know about.
View Quote


Not us.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:00:19 PM EST
Total different world, better intel, better equipment and training.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:00:39 PM EST
Hostages rescued, a few of my cats killed, lots of dead IRG. We are quite good at what we do, silly books and news articles by so called "experts" who've never rescued a cat from a tree let alone stormed the OBJ.

18Z50
former SFAUC instructor in my former life
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:04:42 PM EST
We negotiate with terrorists now.



Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:05:07 PM EST
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.

Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well.

You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:06:34 PM EST
Much better considering the US has a much better helicopter and cargo lift capability.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:07:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CWO:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.

Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well.

You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong.

View Quote

You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:07:43 PM EST
Jimma atleast gave an order to try. have no doubt that Obama would avoid any decision and golf.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:07:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:

Lock Mart
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Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:
Originally Posted By Danj:
I realize the failed attempt changed the way the military prepared for things like that. How much better are we at conducting an operation like that today?

Where the fuck can I get a rocket assisted C 130?

Lock Mart



The J has equal take off capability as non-Js equipped with JATOs
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:08:28 PM EST
I'm sure we would help out, just like we did the last time.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:14:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 8:15:50 PM EST by dskeet]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rifle_Connoisseur:

You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.
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Originally Posted By Rifle_Connoisseur:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.

Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well.

You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong.


You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.


Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up.

I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:18:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dskeet:


Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up.

I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion.
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Originally Posted By dskeet:
Originally Posted By Rifle_Connoisseur:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.

Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well.

You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong.


You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.


Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up.

I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion.
They were going to land transport in a soccer stadium after taking out ZPUs.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:19:12 PM EST
C'mon guys, this could be a interesting thread if you'd stop dragging obama into it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:21:16 PM EST
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:23:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Rifle_Connoisseur:

You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.
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Originally Posted By Rifle_Connoisseur:
Originally Posted By CWO:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.

Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well.

You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong.


You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving.


They were trucking aircraft to the soccer stadium for the egress? I didn't know that.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:26:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago.
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Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:27:19 PM EST
IMO
Dudes today would pull it off
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:28:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HatinHillbilly:
IMO
Dudes today would pull it off
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dudes then would have pulled it off, too.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:31:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dskeet:

Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol
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Originally Posted By dskeet:
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago.

Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol



The POTUS normally does not direct the employment of the National Mission Force, that is the purview of the head of the CIA who is the Combatant Commander for the War on Terrorism; POTUS only is required to make the call on certain things.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:33:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dagger41:
I'm sure we would help out, just like we did the last time.

View Quote

The hostage crisis occurred before I was born, but I was still somewhat aware of the event, and I was still shocked to not learn of that particular chapter of it until they made the movie about it.




Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:41:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SilentType:
We negotiate with terrorists now.



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We've negotiated with terrorists for years. Remember why this guy is famous?



Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:45:22 PM EST
Obama would build the Iranians a new prison to house the hostages in to show all concerned that he cares.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:45:56 PM EST
Obama in an Osprey would dominate their asses.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:51:11 PM EST
Strongly worded letters?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:54:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 9:03:44 PM EST by prill64]
IMHO the problem then wasn't the people on the ground, but the equipment and pilots. After all you had Delta and Rangers going in, granted Delta was still in its infancy, but they had well-trained shooters. I think the best thing to come out of that was the SOAR.

Today you have a dedicated air wing for this type thing that has the equipment and training to pull off the aerial side. Back then it was a bunch of Navy Pilots who had never flown in the desert, flying Helicopters designed to operate in a marine environment, not for the desert. It was the helicopters that caused the problems, by either crashing (pilot error due to lack of visibility and lack of desert landing experience) or just breaking down. I don't remember exactly how many had mechanical issues but i think at least 2 didn't make Desert One, and they left several on the ground after the crash with the EC130.

Just transplanting proper air equipment in there would have made a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that we now have operators that have a lot of combat experience (something the Delta and Rangers guys didn't have a lot of at the time).

Can't speak much for whether it would definitely be a success once they got there, but today they would have at least made it to the hostage site.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:57:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By outofbattery:
As awful as it sounds,I think the Desert One failure was a terrible blessing in disguise. I have severe doubts that the entire plan would have worked,many,many more lives would have been lost and there would have only been political will to accept defeat as no way would Carter have risked a full blown war with Iran.
View Quote


it was a complicated stupid ass plan created so several branches could grab some glory. it should have been developed with nothing but simple principles and success of mission in mind an it could have worked.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:00:29 PM EST
From what I've read, I'd say we'd do much better now that Delta has dedicated air resources instead of the pissing match that they had back then with MUST US navy air power and pilots who really didn't wanna be there.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:02:53 PM EST
There won't be a rescue attempt under Obama.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:08:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BLITZ999:
Numb nuts in chief would pay them off first.
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You mean pray with them?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:09:15 PM EST
Story I remember was that the helo's were to be left behind so the navy gave them ones that were on there last legs anyways...why leave good aircraft. I bet that was a big reason for the failed attempt.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:10:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By prill64:
IMHO the problem then wasn't the people on the ground, but the equipment and pilots. After all you had Delta and Rangers going in, granted Delta was still in its infancy, but they had well-trained shooters. I think the best thing to come out of that was the SOAR.

Today you have a dedicated air wing for this type thing that has the equipment and training to pull off the aerial side. Back then it was a bunch of Navy Pilots who had never flown in the desert, flying Helicopters designed to operate in a marine environment, not for the desert. It was the helicopters that caused the problems, by either crashing (pilot error due to lack of visibility and lack of desert landing experience) or just breaking down. I don't remember exactly how many had mechanical issues but i think at least 2 didn't make Desert One, and they left several on the ground after the crash with the EC130.

Just transplanting proper air equipment in there would have made a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that we now have operators that have a lot of combat experience (something the Delta and Rangers guys didn't have a lot of at the time).

Can't speak much for whether it would definitely be a success once they got there, but today they would have at least made it to the hostage site.
View Quote


the best thing that came out of that was JSOC
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