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Posted: 6/18/2014 3:31:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 3:40:12 PM EST by glocknfail]
Do carry laws apply to them? Would having an old 1891 mauser on your back be considered open carry?
Not advocating doing any such thing, it was just something that I thought of while driving.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:33:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By glocknfail:
Do carry laws apply to them? Would having an old 1891 mauser on your back be considered open carry?
Not advocating doing any such thing, it was just something that I thought of while driving.
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IN for the technicalities
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:34:36 PM EST
Yes, because carry laws are usually state laws, not federal ones, and most state laws define "weapons" to include muzzleloaders and antiques.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:35:00 PM EST
Carry laws are generally state. GCA is federal. Do you even government bro?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:35:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LittlePony:


IN for the technicalities
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Originally Posted By LittlePony:
Originally Posted By glocknfail:
Do carry laws apply to them? Would having an old 1891 mauser on your back be considered open carry?
Not advocating doing any such thing, it was just something that I thought of while driving.


IN for the technicalities


The technicalities are local laws/odinances that specify things like FPS instead of age/method of propulsion/etc.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:36:14 PM EST
I thought it was 1898
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:37:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By whiskerz:
I thought it was 1898
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Yes, pre-1898. I have an 1897 Lee-Enfield; it's an antique.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:38:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Alpha82:


The technicalities are local laws/odinances that specify things like FPS instead of age/method of propulsion/etc.

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Originally Posted By Alpha82:
Originally Posted By LittlePony:
Originally Posted By glocknfail:
Do carry laws apply to them? Would having an old 1891 mauser on your back be considered open carry?
Not advocating doing any such thing, it was just something that I thought of while driving.


IN for the technicalities


The technicalities are local laws/odinances that specify things like FPS instead of age/method of propulsion/etc.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

What about carry of antiques on a plane?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:41:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 3:43:33 PM EST by 1srelluc]
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby..



Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:43:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Carry laws are generally state. GCA is federal. Do you even government bro?
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I ask because felons can carry muzzleloaders for example. So I was just wondering if it was a loophole for carry.

I am not a Felon (at least under current laws, never know when obunga will change that) yet.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:45:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby..

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg

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Trapdoor = shoulder thing that goes up?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:47:43 PM EST
It wouldn't mater till much time and money are wasted due to all someone seeing a "gun" and calling the police.

I don't think your average person or Leo or even DA know the law and would try to nail your ass due to having one of those icky guns
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:49:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By glocknfail:


I ask because felons can carry muzzleloaders for example. So I was just wondering if it was a loophole for carry.

I am not a Felon (at least under current laws, never know when obunga will change that) yet.
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Originally Posted By glocknfail:
Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Carry laws are generally state. GCA is federal. Do you even government bro?


I ask because felons can carry muzzleloaders for example. So I was just wondering if it was a loophole for carry.

I am not a Felon (at least under current laws, never know when obunga will change that) yet.

Most state gun laws have provisions which mimic federal law but are more expansive.

In Utah, for example, muzzleloaders and antiques are defined as "dangerous weapons" and felons are not allowed to possess them, even though possession is not a violation of federal law.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:49:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby..

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg

View Quote

The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:50:17 PM EST
Antique or modern reproduction - doesn't matter. Many states still classify them as "deadly weapons".
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:51:20 PM EST
Legally it would be like walking around with a sword, still not kosher in a lot of places, it is still a weapon.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:53:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MVolkJ:


Yes, pre-1898. I have an 1897 Lee-Enfield; it's an antique.
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Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
Originally Posted By whiskerz:
I thought it was 1898


Yes, pre-1898. I have an 1897 Lee-Enfield; it's an antique.


Nope. The latest BATF book says that any firearm manufactured on or before December 31, 1898 is an antique. So it's actually pre-1899.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:53:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 3:54:10 PM EST by bob1946]
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Originally Posted By peekay:

The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.

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Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby.. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg


The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.



Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term “antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:55:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 3:55:59 PM EST by Silas]
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby..

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg

View Quote


Wow. Yesterday I got a bayonet and sheath just like yours.

Researching it has led me to believe it was from a Springfield M1873ish converted to a Trapdoor.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:55:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bob1946:


Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
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Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby.. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg


The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.



Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:57:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Most state gun laws have provisions which mimic federal law but are more expansive.

In Utah, for example, muzzleloaders and antiques are defined as "dangerous weapons" and felons are not allowed to possess them, even though possession is not a violation of federal law.
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Originally Posted By GarandM1:
Originally Posted By glocknfail:
Originally Posted By eddiein1984:
Carry laws are generally state. GCA is federal. Do you even government bro?


I ask because felons can carry muzzleloaders for example. So I was just wondering if it was a loophole for carry.

I am not a Felon (at least under current laws, never know when obunga will change that) yet.

Most state gun laws have provisions which mimic federal law but are more expansive.

In Utah, for example, muzzleloaders and antiques are defined as "dangerous weapons" and felons are not allowed to possess them, even though possession is not a violation of federal law.


Word. Many states prohibit felons from carrying any black powder weapons,
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:57:52 PM EST

Hell, a tattoo of a firearm is a firearm in some municipalities.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:57:59 PM EST
That depends on how your state defines a weapon. Most of them are aware of the fact that antique guns can kill, so it depends on how the legislature views open carry.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:00:37 PM EST
Can I take one on a federal installation without getting loved tenderly?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:09:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 4:12:22 PM EST by bob1946]
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Originally Posted By peekay:

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Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby.. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg


The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.



Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.



Yes an antique firearm that fires center fire ammo is good to go as long as that ammo is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. You can buy trapdoor spec 45-70 at Walmart so it's ammo is certainly available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, .38S&W isn't.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:20:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 4:22:19 PM EST by jchewie1]
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Originally Posted By bob1946:


Yes an antique firearm that fires center fire ammo is good to go as long as that ammo is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. You can buy trapdoor spec 45-70 at Walmart so it's ammo is certainly available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, .38S&W isn't.
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Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby.. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg


The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.



Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.



Yes an antique firearm that fires center fire ammo is good to go as long as that ammo is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. You can buy trapdoor spec 45-70 at Walmart so it's ammo is certainly available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, .38S&W isn't.



Old Western Scrounger says you are wrong
ETA, I know they don't have it in stock, but it is listed as new manufactured ammo.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:22:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By conductor:


Nope. The latest BATF book says that any firearm manufactured on or before December 31, 1898 is an antique. So it's actually pre-1899.
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Originally Posted By conductor:
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
Originally Posted By whiskerz:
I thought it was 1898


Yes, pre-1898. I have an 1897 Lee-Enfield; it's an antique.


Nope. The latest BATF book says that any firearm manufactured on or before December 31, 1898 is an antique. So it's actually pre-1899.


Yep, you're correct. Brain-fart on my part.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:27:14 PM EST
What about machine guns that were Manufactured before that date? Legal on the federal level without the hassle of a stamp exc?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:28:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By whiskerz:
I thought it was 1898
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Tis.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:29:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GarandM1:
Yes, because carry laws are usually state laws, not federal ones, and most state laws define "weapons" to include muzzleloaders and antiques.
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This.


Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:35:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bob1946:


Yes an antique firearm that fires center fire ammo is good to go as long as that ammo is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. You can buy trapdoor spec 45-70 at Walmart so it's ammo is certainly available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, .38S&W isn't.
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Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By bob1946:
Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Texas OC load out.....1884 Colt and 1884 Trapdoor w/bayonet. By golly they could do worse. I would not want to be on the receiving end of a 500gr .45-70 round, much less the pointy-stabby.. https://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bgp8jq.jpg


The 1884 Colt is a no go for OC as it fires centerfire ammunition. If it was black powder, it would be fine. No need to OC an antique long gun, you can OC an AR15.



Ammunition readily available is the cut off not just rimfire.

As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm” means —



A.any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B.any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
i.is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
ii.uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

C.any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.



Yes an antique firearm that fires center fire ammo is good to go as long as that ammo is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. You can buy trapdoor spec 45-70 at Walmart so it's ammo is certainly available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, .38S&W isn't.


The "or" is important. If it was manufactured in or before 1898 it is an antique "or" if it was manufactured after 1898 then the ammo restriction applies.
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