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Posted: 9/9/2002 7:05:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 7:05:36 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
And the Bush adminstration said that it was a "terrorist compound" filled with "illegal weapons" and "religious fanatics"... How many people would be outraged by "Waco" What if the EXACT SAME events took place - the BATF raid, the standoff, the fire - EXCEPT all of the religious nuts inside were MUSLIM. Would ANYBODY on this board have been outraged, or would it all have been the same indifference as most here show to Jose Padilla? Would people be holding Ashcroft to the same standard as they held Reno, or would people accept his explanations as reasonable, because you were told that fundamentalist muslims who were willing to die, torched their own compound rather than be taken alive (with their giant "stockpile" of illegal weapons). I think suddenly a lot of people would just blindly be trusting the government and take their word for it, because of words like "terrorism", "muslim fundamentalist", etc
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:11:42 AM EDT
Alls I can say is that the folks round here who want to "Nuke Mecca" and kill a couple million ragheads.... ...well, I don't see them getting too concerned over a few hundred hypothetical Muslim Waco residents. You know who you are. [:D]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:25:29 AM EDT
The same thing that happened then could happen now, and NOTHING would be done about it, whether they were muslims or not.....
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:30:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Alls I can say is that the folks round here who want to "Nuke Mecca" and kill a couple million ragheads.... ...well, I don't see them getting too concerned over a few hundred hypothetical Muslim Waco residents. You know who you are. [:D]
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Do you ever stand up and fight for anything Gman?? You have become a whining liberal pacifist bitch ever since last year. Come back to reality and learn how the real world works. Some things are worth fighting and dieing for. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:39:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:42:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: The original Waco Dividians hadn't done anything to kill people, granted they had some screws loose, and David Coresh was a child molester and should have gone to jail. But there religious beliefs didn't want to bring down America, so they were not my enemy. The muslims are my enemy and want to bring down America.
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My point is, if Waco happened today, and Ashcroft TOLD us that their religious beliefs wanted to bring down America - whether or not it was true - how many people would really question if?
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:42:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: You have become a whining liberal pacifist bitch ever since last year. Sgtar15
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LOL!!!!!!! THAT is funny, dude. [:D] Truth be told, when you've been called BOTH an intolerant, bigoted, fanantical Chrsitian, AND a "liberal pacifist whinign bitch" (which are polar opposites) ...as I have.... ...you got a pretty good idea you are maintaining the right balance. Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Do you ever stand up and fight for anything Gman?? Come back to reality and learn how the real world works. Some things are worth fighting and dieing for.
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You know, I had a good response to this worthwhile question, but I've decided on a new policy. I'm not gonna BOTHER giving solid answers to the type of people who use the phrase "liberal pacifist whining bitch" and its intellectual equivalents. I may be indeed the worlds ONLY pacifist with an arsenal larger than many third world countries. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:44:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: The muslims are my enemy and want to bring down America.
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See G-man, Ilikelegs figured it out. It really is that simple. Now go out and find that ball sack you lost. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:49:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 7:51:58 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: The muslims are my enemy and want to bring down America.
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See G-man, Ilikelegs figured it out. It really is that simple.
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No he HAS NOT figured it out. THANK GOD he was NOT around for the founding of this nation. Here's the RIGHT (MY) attitude: The muslims [b]THAT WANT TO BRING DOWN AMERICA [/b]are my enemy. His statement is based on their religion. My statement is based on their actions / intentions. [b]And the idea that being Muslim is the same as wanting to bring down America is demonstrably false.[/b]
Now go out and find that ball sack you lost. Sgtar15
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[rolleyes] Can't make an argument without throwing in an insult, can ya????/
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:51:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: The original Waco Dividians hadn't done anything to kill people, granted they had some screws loose, and David Coresh was a child molester and should have gone to jail.
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Just goes to show, the same folks who believed Janet Reno's propaganda then will still believe propaganda now. FYI, Koresh's "child molestation" was an allegation that was investigated by Texas authorities, and was unfounded....That info was known to the justice dept.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:53:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:53:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: Just goes to show, the same folks who believed Janet Reno's propaganda then will still believe propaganda now. .
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Its all based on agenda. If the propaganda helps you get what you want, you beleive the propaganda. If the propaganda helps your ideological opponents get what they want, you don't beleive the propaganda.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:55:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: And it would have been a good thing if I had been around when this country was founded.[8D]
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No, cuz then you wouldn't be around to irritate me now. [:D][:D]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:55:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 7:59:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: I guess you missed the interviews with a couple of the women from there that left before hand.
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yeah, jilted lovers make for real reliable sources of evidence. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:00:46 AM EDT
G-man, your attitude just comes accross all wrong. You can gather all the facts you want and be as right as you want. But the fact remains that you don't really support any type of action in retaliation for all the terrorist bombing. You may say you do but any plan is always riddled with stipulations and such. People with this attitude take so much time trying to complete understand the situation that nothing ever gets done about it, and that inaction speaks volumes. My main point is this Gman, you have changed....and I miss the the old Gman that wasn't such a pushover. Yes I guess you are a Christian Pacifist with alot of guns, to bad you aren't willing to use them for what they are designed for. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:04:13 AM EDT
This is as easy as Hell, [b]DK-Prof[/b]. It is doubtful that many Americans would disapprove of what might happen to fanatical Muslim extremists in a similar situation to Waco. I don't see that many Americans being shocked by what happened at the original Mt. Carmel fiasco. So what's the point? I'm certain that David Koresh is a name that is only slightly less hated than the name of Osama Bin Laden among the great unlearned of this country. Now, if you were asking us what our opinions might be, a totally different result would occur! When the original 'siege of Mt. Carmel' began, my most fervent hope would be that Koresh and his followers come out with their hands up and the Feds go in and find nothing but legally owned weapons. Nope. Then I would have hope that Koresh and his followers would have taken the opportunity to clean up any 'illegal' weapons prior to any surrender they made. Nope, again. And if we were to substitute 'fanatical Muslims' for the term 'Branch Davidians', I would still be against any action being taken against the building for any reason! That's called consistency, my friend. And don't say that you think I am so anti-Muslim fanatic that I am simply lying. No, Sir, I am so anti-Muslim fanatic that I simply don't want to give them any unnecessary martyrs! I bet you will believe [u]that[/u]! Eric The(Consistent)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:07:25 AM EDT
And under no circumstances would I support the children of Muslim fanatics being murdered in the same manner that the children of the Branch Davidians were murdered! [b][i]'Jesus loves the little children, All the children of the World, Red, yellow, black and white, They are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the World.'[/i][/b] - from a well-known Sunday School song Eric The(Amen!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:09:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: And don't say that you think I am so anti-Muslim fanatic that I am simply lying. No, Sir, I am so anti-Muslim fanatic that I simply don't want to give them any unnecessary martyrs! I bet you will believe [u]that[/u]! Eric The(Consistent)Hun[>]:)]
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Why would I say you were lying? I don't believe I've ever accused you of lying - only of being wrong. My point is that people are willing to be a lot less skeptical of the government, and hold them to a far lower bar of justice and fairness, as soon as the administration invoke the term "terrorist" - as illustrated by the largely complete lack of concern over Jose Padilla among most of the people on this site. As soon as the government says someone is "suspected of terrorism" or merely accused of it, then a lot of people here are happy to deprive that person of all their Constitutional rights - based on nothing more than a vague accusation.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:11:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By ilikelegs: The original Waco Dividians hadn't done anything to kill people, granted they had some screws loose, and David Coresh was a child molester and should have gone to jail.
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Just goes to show, the same folks who believed Janet Reno's propaganda then will still believe propaganda now. FYI, Koresh's "child molestation" was an allegation that was investigated by Texas authorities, and was unfounded....That info was known to the justice dept.
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I guess you missed the interviews with a couple of the women from there that left before hand.
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No, I didn't. It was demonstrated that they were lying to further their own agenda. Do you want govt officials to believe allegations from your former friends? Or to develop EVIDENCE from their own investigation????
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:11:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 8:20:01 AM EDT by Zaphod]
Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. It's based on the (unpleasant, for some) fact that it was MUSLIM terrorists who, just short of a year ago, barbecued over 3,000 of my fellow citizens in a single morning. Why was I outraged over Waco? Simple. What did they ever do to deserve a response that was more aggressive than Osama got after blowing up our embassies and almost sinking one of our warships? Okay, maybe they had some illegal guns. They shot back when attacked. Looks like the government gave them exactly the reason they were looking for/fearing. It's not like they went out and attacked the local Federal building and got attacked in reply. Sorry. Nice try. No comparison. Besides, ETH is right too. If no one gave a damn about American citizens being massacred by their own government, what makes you think anyone (except maybe the liberals, and that's only because GWB is president) would care a whit about heavily armed Muslims post-9/11? Edited to add: Children are always a difficult variable, aren't they? Even if the compound was filled with children, yet the adults were found to have planned 9/11, a civilized society would hesitate to respond because of the children. And, I regret, that is why we will probably lose. We have scruples. They don't. If I ever sound cruel or heartless on this board toward Muslims it is not because I am a bloodthirsty maniac. It is because I want US to WIN, and it'd damned difficult to do so with one hand tied behind your back. In my view, fair is fair. You target my children, I will target yours. You want me to respect your children, don't fuck with mine. Guess who crossed over the line first? It wasn't us...
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:14:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 8:18:47 AM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By sgtar15: G-man, your attitude just comes accross all wrong. You can gather all the facts you want and be as right as you want.
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So what are you saying? That we need not have the facts, and we need not be right in our execution of justice in the war on those who attacked us, we just need to slaughter a bunch of people because they are of the same religion as those who attacked us???? NO SIR I'LL NOT CONDONE ANY SUCH GENOCIDAL ACTION. YES, I [size=6]DEMAND [/size=6] WE HAVE THE NECESARY FACTS, AND DO THIS THING RIGHT. Its quite clear your anger, and not your mind and conscience are doing your talking.
But the fact remains that you don't really support any type of action in retaliation for all the terrorist bombing.
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This statement is demonstrably false, and you know it. I have supported and still support the war in Afghanistan. Its target, mission, and prosecution ARE based on FACTS and are RIGHT. I would go myself if they could use my overweight, broken down 36 year old carcass.
You may say you do but any plan is always riddled with stipulations and such.
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LIFE is full of caveats and stiputations. For example, the speed you are allowed to drive your car has endless stipulations. Should the killing of thousands, possibly millions of human being have less stipulations????
My main point is this Gman, you have changed....and I miss the the old Gman that wasn't such a pushover. Yes I guess you are a Christian Pacifist with alot of guns, to bad you aren't willing to use them for what they are designed for. Sgtar15
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I've not changed. My core values remain the same. How those core values control my life, AND ARE EVIDENCED IN MY LIFE, has not changed. If anything, YOU have changed, from someone who thought NOTHING of Arabs at all (and I mean not ONCE before Sept 11 do I recall you wanting millions of Muslims dead) , to someone who wants millions of them dead. All because those millions share the same religion with less than 2 dozen murderous terrorists. I'm no pacifist. You can accuse me of that ten more times, but it'll be no more true than the first time you said it.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:20:17 AM EDT
I so wish military service was a requirement in this country, just as it is in many other foreign countries. In lots of those places, if you're a male, you WILL be going into the military. No alternative service! (Whether this is good or bad I haven't decided yet). If we had a program like that in the United States, our country and our citenzenry as a whole would be so much better off. People with opinions such as some of those voiced above would soon realize that things take on a totally different hue after you've "Been there, Done that". Yes, I've BTDT. Have you? It's all fine and dandy to want to protect everyone's rights until you stare these fundamentalist bastards in the face and realize once and for all that THEY WANT TO KILL EVERY AMERICAN. Sometimes, something must be sacrificed in order to preserve our way of life. So here's my question to you guys...and I'm specifically addressing you Garandman. -Why should I protect the rights of Muslim Fundamentalists living under the protection of MY Constitution whose sole purpose for existing is to destroy the country I love? I say fuck that. We should stop pussyfooting around and serve notice in an unquestionable manner to all enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic: We're coming, and we will win.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:25:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sanjosesrt: So here's my question to you guys...and I'm specifically addressing you Garandman. -Why should I protect the rights of Muslim Fundamentalists living under the protection of MY Constitution whose sole purpose for existing is to destroy the country I love?
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I have NEVER, EVER, EVER said you should. THAT is a FACT. To do so would be treason, and patently stupid. Re-read ALL my posts in this thread, then try asking a relevant, intellectually honest question, based on what I have ACTUALLY said, not someones twisted spinning of my words. I'm more than willing to reply to those.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:30:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sanjosesrt: I say fuck that. We should stop pussyfooting around and serve notice in an unquestionable manner to all enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic: We're coming, and we will win.
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I concur COMPLETELY with your intentions - it is the implementation that is sticky. WHO GETS TO DECIDE who are "enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic"??? That's the fvcking problem, here. People are willing to just turn off their brain and let the administration do it for them. If Ashcroft says tomorrow that all people that own pre-ban "assault rifles" are domestic enemies, and he suspects them of terrorism, do you think they should lose some (or all) of their constitutional rights? If you find that ridiculous, then why is it okay for him to do it Jose Padilla?
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:34:07 AM EDT
Post from DK-Prof -
As soon as the government says someone is "suspected of terrorism" or merely accused of it, then a lot of people here are happy to deprive that person of all their Constitutional rights - based on nothing more than a vague accusation.
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So the accusation against Jose Padilla, who is known now as Abdullah al Muhajir, is based upon [u]nothing[/u] more than a 'vague accusation'? [img]http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2002/06/10/image511775l.jpg[/img] Where did you find that pearl of wisdom? Read my reprint of Kate O'Beirne's article from the National Review titled 'It's A War, Stupid.' Eric The(Reasonable)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:34:19 AM EDT
Apologies to G-man....Whay aren't all of you guys that are screaming for blood want to take on Saudi Arabia and not Iraq? Can't you even get your targets straight?
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:40:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Apologies to G-man....Whay aren't all of you guys that are screaming for blood want to take on Saudi Arabia and not Iraq? Can't you even get your targets straight?
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Not sure what the apologies are for.... But since a LARGE majority of the terrorist hijackers came from Saudi, I gotta think Saudi is a more legitimate target than Iraq. THAT THERE sgtar15 is a FACT. A [b]FACT[/b] that might help us choose the [b]RIGHT [/b]target in a war for our very existence. Call me anal, but FACTS and being RIGHT are the MOST important thing.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:45:54 AM EDT
"What if the EXACT SAME events took place - the BATF raid, the standoff, the fire - EXCEPT all of the religious nuts inside were MUSLIM." It could never be the same with muslims in place of branch dividians,the dividians never set out to kiill us. Not all nuts are alike.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:47:38 AM EDT
Sorry Garandman, I think I misread your post a little bit. However...I wasn't really citing something you said, more your attitude towards the situation than anything else. I don't want to argue, of course your opinion counts for just as much as mine, I'm just sick and tired of all this tree-hugging liberalism these days. Who should decide who the enemies of the United States are? Well, the President should. Based on information from the Joint Chiefs and our military and civillinan intelligence agencies. We grant the President these powers because we acknowledge that his job is difficult and dangerous. Who do I think we should be looking at? Saudi Arabia. Iraq. Hezbollah-controlled Lebanon. Assganistan. That's enough for about the next 6-8 years.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:48:54 AM EDT
Gman apologies for halfway hijacking your thread......it seems like these days we agree on a lot more stuff......just you and me and some whacked out libertarians sitting out here on the prairie going "Why in the world are we as a nation doing that and does anyone really believe that crap?" Sadly a lot of people do and lately foreign "war-time" policy just beats me down...
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:55:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sanjosesrt: Who should decide who the enemies of the United States are? Well, the President should. Based on information from the Joint Chiefs and our military and civillinan intelligence agencies. We grant the President these powers because we acknowledge that his job is difficult and dangerous.
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So you would support the administration IF Bush and Ashcroft decided that anyone who owns an AR-15 is "suspicious" and a "potential terrorist" and shouldn't have the same Consitutional rights as other people?
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:56:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Gman apologies for halfway hijacking your thread......
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I thought it was my thread. [:(] I never get to have anything nice.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 8:58:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 9:18:16 AM EDT by ilikelegs]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:03:20 AM EDT
DK....so sorry...I missed the header and saw Gmans paws all over the thing.....here you can have it back.....
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:06:04 AM EDT
DK-PROF: No, obviously I would not support the Bush administration if they deemed AR-15 owners a threat to National Security. I almost didn't even answer that question. There is a great difference between Muslim Radical/Extremist/Paramilitary/Fundamentalists/Terrorists and AR-15 owners. You're comparing apples to oranges. Based upon your statement, I take it that you mean Muslim Fundamentalists living in this country should be extended the same rights as you and I? Sorry, no way. When they decided that they want to destroy America, their rights protected under the Consitution are dissolved and they should be declared Enemy Combatants and therefore open season. I think we can all agree that there will be errors in our decision making process as a Nation, just as there will be Intelligence oversights and the like. However - if it looks, smells, talks and acts like a Muslim terrorist, then it probably is!
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:33:50 AM EDT
I like this moral equivilency Fantasy land stuff... GW Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft are the moral equivilant of Clinton/Clinton Reno...LOL what a crock of shit... Liberal drivel.. Islamic international terrorism and their fellow travelers have attacked America we are at war... Sadam has been linked over and over again to the pantheon of Islamic terrorists...he is amasing WMD to use them..and to distribute them to terrorists who have vowed to strike America [b]AGAIN[/b]....they already have drawn first blood at OK City and NY City...they were aiming for the White House and Congress..had they succeeded in that would you be any more ameanable to our defending ourselves by a retalitory or premptive strike on anyone who has the will the means and makes attempts day after day to get even more terrorists into America.. Should we wait to get nuked...for the small pox epidemic..for any WMD to kill our children the way the Israeli children are murdered...by these same terrorists...they are all together...one in the same... To make the claim that our leaders are the moral equivilant of CCR and Islam is the same as WACO or Randy Weaver...Dum Koph Prof :) Distrust of our Govt. as a way of life for some We are at war and need to trust Bush ...to compare him to Clinton Reno in any other than an invidious comparison is ...and to incite others to abandon support for our war on terror...is a suspicious act imo...& Anti American at its heart
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:36:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sanjosesrt: There is a great difference between Muslim Radical/Extremist/Paramilitary/Fundamentalists/Terrorists and AR-15 owners. You're comparing apples to oranges.
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Of course I am - but my point is not about who IS really a threat - but whether you will blindly take the administration's word for it. Now I'm not clear on your answer - do you believe the President should decide? Or do you believe the Preseident should decide only when he happens to agree with you?
Based upon your statement, I take it that you mean Muslim Fundamentalists living in this country should be extended the same rights as you and I? Sorry, no way. When they decided that they want to destroy America, their rights protected under the Consitution are dissolved and they should be declared Enemy Combatants and therefore open season. I think we can all agree that there will be errors in our decision making process as a Nation, just as there will be Intelligence oversights and the like. However - if it looks, smells, talks and acts like a Muslim terrorist, then it probably is!
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What are you talking about - are you taling about Muslim Fundamentalist - who are very devout and committed Muslims (kind of like Orthodox Jews) or are you talking about terrorists, many of whom happen to be Muslim Extremists. Should actual terrorists who live in this country and intend harm be rooted out like the rats that they are? Certainly! If they are proven guilty in a court of law, execute them publicly on Ground Zero for all I care. Should AMERICAN CITIZENS have their civil rights taken away because they happen to be devout muslims? Certainly not! The first is right and just, the second is wrong and unjust. Do you want to live in the land of the free or not? Have you ever heard of a phrase called "Innocent until proven guilty?"
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:54:37 AM EDT
Ok, I should have been clearer when I said "Muslim Fundamentalists." From now on, I'll just say "Muslim Terrorists", since I agree with you in that Muslims can be fanatical and yet not paramilitary in nature. Sorry 'bout that. My President can decide whatever he wants. I voted for him and have some faith that the President, along with his advisors and sensitive Intelligence information, will make decisions that are for the benefit of this country. No, I wouldn't be happy if he made a decision that adversly affected me, but I will still respect his Office if not the man himself. Do I blindly take the President's word for it that our enemies are actually that? Yes and no. I'm in a position to have first-hand knowledge that the President knows what the hell he's talking about when he says "Axis of Evil." Unfortunately not everyone can have such a clear view of our enemies as I do...it's hard to think of a country as your enemy when it's soldiers haven't fired their weapons at you I guess. No, American Citizens should not have their rights taken away because they are devout Muslims. However, being devout Muslims, they should realize that they are going to be closely examined due to the state of the union at the present time. It must be my military background, but I'm a firm believer in the idea that there is more to life than serving one's self...to sacrifice for a higher purpose is one of the most honorable things one can do. Being selfish isn't good for the country. Not everyone's rights can be protected all of the time...in the quest for freedom, safety and security, sometimes some people are going to get stepped on. That's too bad, but just the way it is....and I would gladly give up my rights and even my life to ensure that YOUR way of life and that of all your American brothers and sisters does not cease to exist. This nation was born in bloodshed, and it's kind of ridiculous to think that in a time like this we can survive through it whilst protecting every single person's/group's rights.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 9:54:56 AM EDT
Ithink that we all missed the original reason that the government was in Waco.The BATF had "reliable intelligence"that the Branch Davidians were Illegally converting various semi auto weapons to full automatic. They were originally serving a warrant,if memory serves me correctly.The fact that he was having sex with 15 year old girls was not the reason that the were there.When they resisted the warrant the powers that be could not simply say we'll come back at a better time.They had to React to the way Koresch wanted to play out his hand.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 10:01:47 AM EDT
Gray....you really don't know of what you speak...the warrant was for a meth lab...and everything after that was even more screwed up. I would ask you to read up on it, but we don't need another really PO'ed guy on this one. EVERYONE who really looks into Waco gets pissed off. Back to sanjo---"Not everyone's rights can be protected all of the time" Thanks bye now..that's all I needed to hear from you.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 10:21:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: Apologies to G-man....Whay aren't all of you guys that are screaming for blood want to take on Saudi Arabia and not Iraq? Can't you even get your targets straight?
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They both suck. What would you suggest... going after them both at the same time? Or if Saudi isn't feasable also just skipping Iraq, our avowed enemy entirely? This policy of containment with Iraq is costing more lives and treasure over time then to just go in and hang that son-of-a-bitch.
Originally Posted By garandman: Call me anal
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Okay, you're anal.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 12:53:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: I like this moral equivilency Fantasy land stuff...
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[size=6][red]OBSERVANT STATEMENT OF TRUTH ALERT![/red][/size=6]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 1:13:40 PM EDT
Sorry to say, I would feel NO sympathy for the muslims. Maybe it has to do with the nearly 3000 americans killed, and untold millions that were adversly affected on Sept 11. Call it what you want, but I feel it in my soul that we in a battle to the death with Muslim extremist. That battle will not be won by showing love and kindness. Face it G-man, your Jew-hating has clouded your judgement on this issue.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 1:45:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 1:47:36 PM EDT by garandman]
Originally Posted By BillofRights: Call it what you want, but I feel it in my soul that we in a battle to the death with Muslim extremist. That battle will not be won by showing love and kindness.
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I too am in a battle with Muslim Extremists. But not every Muslim is a Muslim extremists.
Face it G-man, your Jew-hating has clouded your judgement on this issue.
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WOW - yer smart. Did you come up with that nifty "jew-hating" accusation all by yerself, or did yer mommy tell ya to put it in there, as the SURE way to win the discussion??? [rolleyes] Yer just another person INCAPABLE of discussing a topic without insulting people, and attacking their character. Must SUCK to be you.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 1:50:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Originally Posted By garandman: Alls I can say is that the folks round here who want to "Nuke Mecca" and kill a couple million ragheads.... ...well, I don't see them getting too concerned over a few hundred hypothetical Muslim Waco residents. You know who you are. [:D]
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yep!, I know who I am. [url]www.ar15.com/members/albums/ilikelegs%2FIsraeli%2520flag%2Egif[/url] Jew Crew Member #7 And I would go down there and pass out bottled water to the BATF people then. The original Waco Dividians hadn't done anything to kill people, granted they had some screws loose, and David Coresh was a child molester and should have gone to jail. But there religious beliefs didn't want to bring down America, so they were not my enemy. The muslims are my enemy and want to bring down America.
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What evidence is there that Koresh was a child molester? A local investigation came up with nothing. Muslims are not all the same. Most may be, but you cant condemn an entire group of people. Its like people saying all white southerners are racial bigots.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 1:55:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: G-man, your attitude just comes accross all wrong. You can gather all the facts you want and be as right as you want. But the fact remains that you don't really support any type of action in retaliation for all the terrorist bombing. You may say you do but any plan is always riddled with stipulations and such. People with this attitude take so much time trying to complete understand the situation that nothing ever gets done about it, and that inaction speaks volumes. My main point is this Gman, you have changed....and I miss the the old Gman that wasn't such a pushover. Yes I guess you are a Christian Pacifist with alot of guns, to bad you aren't willing to use them for what they are designed for. Sgtar15
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Yes, its always wise to leap before you look. ...well at least you'd be doing something.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 2:10:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sanjosesrt: I so wish military service was a requirement in this country, just as it is in many other foreign countries. In lots of those places, if you're a male, you WILL be going into the military. No alternative service! (Whether this is good or bad I haven't decided yet). If we had a program like that in the United States, our country and our citenzenry as a whole would be so much better off. People with opinions such as some of those voiced above would soon realize that things take on a totally different hue after you've "Been there, Done that". Yes, I've BTDT. Have you? It's all fine and dandy to want to protect everyone's rights until you stare these fundamentalist bastards in the face and realize once and for all that THEY WANT TO KILL EVERY AMERICAN. Sometimes, something must be sacrificed in order to preserve our way of life. So here's my question to you guys...and I'm specifically addressing you Garandman. -Why should I protect the rights of Muslim Fundamentalists living under the protection of MY Constitution whose sole purpose for existing is to destroy the country I love? I say fuck that. We should stop pussyfooting around and serve notice in an unquestionable manner to all enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic: We're coming, and we will win.
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I wonder if Christian "Fundamentalists" are just as bad? Isnt there a difference between a Muslim and a Muslim terrorist? Hmmmm...guilt by association.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 2:24:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2002 3:33:19 PM EDT by ilikelegs]
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 2:33:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Alls I can say is that the folks round here who want to "Nuke Mecca" and kill a couple million ragheads.... ...well, I don't see them getting too concerned over a few hundred hypothetical Muslim Waco residents. You know who you are. [:D]
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Yes, garandman - you were speaking to me... how can I help you?
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 3:07:45 PM EDT
Post from garandman -
Call me anal.
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OK, [b]garandman[/b], you are anal! [:D] Sorry! But you asked for it! Eric The(NonAnal)Hun[>]:)]
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