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Posted: 3/27/2009 6:41:14 PM EST
Hypothetical situation; You meet an apparently upstanding guy, nice enough and living a normal life. Your average hardworking taxpayer.

The subject of guns comes and he mentions that he has a few. He says he's gotten them from friends over the years and claims to have a halfway decent collection. He also says that he has a felony on his record from 25 years ago, and can't procure firearms by the normal means.

He's long since straightened his life out, he is "reformed" as they say. He wants to own firearms for home defense and has had no problem finding what he needs. Up until now you've gotten along fine with this person, he's a charismatic, friendly dude.

Now he wants to talk ammo, with you. What do you say to him?




Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:43:14 PM EST
I'd tell him I wouldn't sell him any. Couldn't he just buy it in the store or does CA require a permit to buy ammo?

I think it's ridiculous that after serving your time your rights are still stripped for life.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:43:27 PM EST
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:43:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 6:44:24 PM EST by Tacticalpancake]
Was it a violent felony or an unconstitutional charge for possessing plants the government doesn't like?
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:44:25 PM EST
He's not asking you to sell him any. He just wants your advice on what to buy for himself.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:44:35 PM EST
Depends on what the conviction was for....
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:46:08 PM EST
Sure, as long as you think they are not some dumbfuck. An 18yr old kid stealing an xbox would be a felon so the world felon doesn't always mean some armed robber.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:46:10 PM EST
It matters to me what the crime was.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:46:14 PM EST
Information regarding ammo is available on the internet.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:46:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 6:47:29 PM EST by DuraToTheMax]
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.


Oh hell, let's make it interesting. Let's say it was Felony assault. Let's say he beat the hell out of someone and went to prison for it.


Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:46:59 PM EST
Knowledge is legal for everyone thankfully.

Take that how you will.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:48:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.


Oh hell, let's make it interesting. Let's say it was Felony assault.





First thing I would ask "Who did you assault and why?"

I had a friend get into it in the parking lot of a bar once. He was outnumbered and pulled a 2x4 out the back of his truck. He was charged with Felonious assault, but the charges were dropped later. Thing is though if he hadnt lawyered up he may have ended up with a conviction....
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:48:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By 230grains:
Knowledge is legal for everyone thankfully.

Take that how you will.


Well spoken Sir.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:49:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
He's not asking you to sell him any. He just wants your advice on what to buy for himself.


He should buy himself the filiing fees to expunge or seal his record.

Talking him into being legal would be the logical thing.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:49:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By 230grains:
I'd tell him I wouldn't sell him any. Couldn't he just buy it in the store or does CA require a permit to buy ammo?

I think it's ridiculous that after serving your time your rights are still stripped for life.


No permits needed to buy ammo or firearms. At least the ones the state deems 'acceptable'.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:49:40 PM EST
Yes, and I do. Plenty of folks get screwed by .gov, but that doesn't change their god-given right to safely own the things they want and need. I know a person in just this kind of situation and I genuinely believe that they should have every right to own guns.

Like others have said, context is key.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:49:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
He's not asking you to sell him any. He just wants your advice on what to buy for himself.


He should buy himself the filiing fees to expunge or seal his record.

Talking him into being legal would be the logical thing.


Might be harder in CA. My friend did it though.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:49:50 PM EST
If he is a mean SOB that managed to finally get caught on assault his ass is going back to jail.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:50:00 PM EST
I wouldn't tell him anything except the contact info for a good attorney who could help him get his record cleaned up.

<–– 07/02
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:50:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 6:51:04 PM EST by Bob1984]
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.


This. I'd give him the same advice that I'd give any other shooter. I do not sell weapons or ammunition to anyone.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:51:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 6:52:36 PM EST by GUNSFORHIRE]
Not that I would deal with the guy...and I wouldn't sell him a weapon but If he can procure it for himself and he is NO threat then so be it!

Unless he is a freaking child murdering rapist he is good to go in my book...But that is just me!

Because I believe ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL....
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:52:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By GUNSFORHIRE:


Unless he is a freaking child murdering rapist he is good to go in my book...But that is just me!

Because I believe ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL....


I'm with ya 100%

If he was that bad, he shouldn't have been let out of prison to begin with.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:52:21 PM EST
hell yes ill talk to him and explain whatever he wants to know
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:52:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By 230grains:
Knowledge is legal for everyone thankfully.

Take that how you will.


For now.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:53:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By 230grains:
I'd tell him I wouldn't sell him any. Couldn't he just buy it in the store or does CA require a permit to buy ammo?

I think it's ridiculous that after serving your time your rights are still stripped for life.


this.

if he's served his time, then his debt is paid and it's time to move on. i wouldn't break the law for him, but i'd help him help himself.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:54:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 6:58:55 PM EST by orangelo]
I'd tell him to get a lawyer and have his rights restored through whatever legal process is required.

Do you want to see him fuck his life up and go back to prison?? What if he drags you along with him? If he's really been clean for 25 years, he should have a good case for restoration of his rights.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:56:57 PM EST
I have a friend that's not a felon, but has been a complete asshat for the last 25 years. I will not give him gun advice, or take him shooting now that he has his 'nine.'

So no, I'd probably not give advice to someone that was convicted either.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:58:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
hell yes ill talk to him and explain whatever he wants to know


There are two points to this hypothetical situation;

1. A person who has made a mistake can indeed learn the error of their ways. Their time in prison may indees rehabilitate them. It doesn't work for everybody, obviously, but it does for some. For those that have undergone a significant period of time after their offense without repeat offending, should they continue to be stripped of certain rights?

2. Anyone, felon or not, that wants to own a firearm can purchase one. One way or another if the demand is there, there will always be a supply. It may not be as easy for them but it is by no means impossible.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:02:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By 11BDad:
Originally Posted By 230grains:
Knowledge is legal for everyone thankfully.

Take that how you will.


Well spoken Sir.

+1
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:04:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.


Oh hell, let's make it interesting. Let's say it was Felony assault. Let's say he beat the hell out of someone and went to prison for it.


if they let him out, then his penance is over.


Did the beateee deserve it? lol

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:05:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 7:10:38 PM EST by EFB16ACRX]
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
hell yes ill talk to him and explain whatever he wants to know


There are two points to this hypothetical situation;

1. A person who has made a mistake can indeed learn the error of their ways. Their time in prison may indees rehabilitate them. It doesn't work for everybody, obviously, but it does for some. For those that have undergone a significant period of time after their offense without repeat offending, should they continue to be stripped of certain rights?

2. Anyone, felon or not, that wants to own a firearm can purchase one. One way or another if the demand is there, there will always be a supply. It may not be as easy for them but it is by no means impossible.



what if the felon was such an upstanding citizen( that broke nothing but unconstitutional laws in the first place) he recieved awards from townships for his, uh, upstandingness?

ETA: hypothetically speaking of course
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:08:47 PM EST
I'm fine with you owning firearms if you're not in prison.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:11:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
hell yes ill talk to him and explain whatever he wants to know


There are two points to this hypothetical situation;

1. A person who has made a mistake can indeed learn the error of their ways. Their time in prison may indees rehabilitate them. It doesn't work for everybody, obviously, but it does for some. For those that have undergone a significant period of time after their offense without repeat offending, should they continue to be stripped of certain rights?

2. Anyone, felon or not, that wants to own a firearm can purchase one. One way or another if the demand is there, there will always be a supply. It may not be as easy for them but it is by no means impossible.



what if the felon was such an upstanding citizen( that broke nothing but unconstitutional laws in the first place) he recieved awards from townships for his, uh, upstandingness?


Like for instance, the mayor of a town who refused to surrender his machinegun? Surely you jest.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:19:11 PM EST
I have one good friend, and one relative, who have felony records. One sold marijuana to an undercover cop when he was 19. Zero tolerance, year in jail.
The other got drunk at a frat rush party, crashed his car, killed his passenger/best friend. Year in jail.
Both of them are fine, upstanding citizens, pillars of the community, no threat to society.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:21:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By EFB16ACRX:
hell yes ill talk to him and explain whatever he wants to know


There are two points to this hypothetical situation;

1. A person who has made a mistake can indeed learn the error of their ways. Their time in prison may indees rehabilitate them. It doesn't work for everybody, obviously, but it does for some. For those that have undergone a significant period of time after their offense without repeat offending, should they continue to be stripped of certain rights?

2. Anyone, felon or not, that wants to own a firearm can purchase one. One way or another if the demand is there, there will always be a supply. It may not be as easy for them but it is by no means impossible.



what if the felon was such an upstanding citizen( that broke nothing but unconstitutional laws in the first place) he recieved awards from townships for his, uh, upstandingness?


Like for instance, the mayor of a town who refused to surrender his machinegun? Surely you jest.


i have decided im not going into this any further on a public forum
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:27:32 PM EST
Fair enough.

So far no one seems to object to reformed felons owning firearms.

(felon being the "trigger word")

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 7:58:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 8:05:03 PM EST by furioso2112]
that's right - every time it comes up, and more often.

oops - forgot to quote - referring to the 'convince him to get legal' post

I don't think that felon is the most important word - 'reformed' is.

If I really thought highly of the person and thought he should have guns, I might even go so far as to tell him I would report him myself unless he called a lawyer right here, right now, in front of me. That would get him where he needs to be and keep me out of any bullshit drama.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:01:59 PM EST
Depends what kind of felony conviction he has.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:10:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By g3shooter:
Depends what kind of felony conviction he has.


Felony Assault.

Two striker.

Last conviction was 25 years ago.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:30:16 PM EST
Suck if he hit his third strike...
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:37:33 PM EST
Ok, if it's felonious assault, I'd want to know how the victim was doing.

IOW, did he beat the guy so bad he's crippled or scarred? Did the guy deserve the beating for groping his wife/gf?

Anyway, what it boils down to is that our justice system is fucked. People are "out" who should still be in prison, and people who have more than paid their debt to society are prevented from owning a gun to protect themselves.

I agree with the sentiment "if what they did was so bad they should be barred from owning a gun, they should still be in prison".

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:52:22 PM EST
Hard to say what the circumstances were 25 years ago. All the guy is willing to tell you is that he is a two striker, and he has a gun collection. He's looking to you for advice on ammo purchases.

He's also a conservative, but he can't vote.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 8:52:55 PM EST
What laws he chooses to break would be of little concern to me personally - I'm no rat. Given my 1st amendment rights, I'd talk about whatever I wanted to with him. However, if he ever asked me to sell him a gun or be a straw purchaser for him, I might shove a steel toed boot up his buttocks.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:04:51 AM EST
so it's ok for him to be a felon with a gun and not Lovelle?

Thas racist.

Assuming he was a good friend, I would try to keep him from getting himself and family in trouble. Even if his wife and kids didn't get arrested or in trouble, if he was the main breadwinner, leaving a wife and kids to try and live on hsi license plate making salary is NOT a good plan.

, I would tell him acquiring a firearm outside the normally acceptable processes is not a good idea for regular folks. For a felon without privileges, it could be a one way ticket back to Folsom for him. I'd also tell him that almost all the people busted for violations of the CA "Ban" were busted because they did something dumb enough to get their places searched and then their problems really started when the illegal guns were found in legal searches. So he might also want to consider that. If he ever used one, he would be in a load of trouble, so he better think long and hard about it. If he ever really needed it, it would be good to have one, but––-

I would also suggest that he contact a good firearms lawyer and find out from somebody that is really good on the laws, just what the consequences would be if his wife had guns and they were accessible to him. I have a damn good layman's knowledge, but in a real situation where the consequences could be pretty devastating, getting advice from a real expert is the way to go. In some circumstances, in CA, it is possible for a felon without firearms rights to be able to use a firearm in a legal defense situation, but he damn well better find out what those really are.

In any case the only guy I know that has lost his firearms rights lives in Colorado and browbeat his wife into buying him guns and when they divorced he left "hers" with him.

As far as a general discussion on the merits of different tools for certain jobs, then I would have no qualms about that kind of discussion. But I guess I would make it clear I thought he might be going down a very rocky road on bad tires.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:29:51 AM EST
In my OPINION, anybody that is a good citizen should be able to buy firearms.

If they paid their dues, and they are not repeat offenders, then they are good to go.



I have always said, if the person cannot be trusted to own a gun, then he should NOT be mingling with normal society. Because you CAN find weapons, everywhere. You can turn pretty much everything into a weapon without much effort.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:33:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 12:34:43 AM EST by Uberjager]
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
What felony?


Felony speeding?

Felony tax evasion?

Felony murder?

Context means something, despite the law.


Oh hell, let's make it interesting. Let's say it was Felony assault. Let's say he beat the hell out of someone and went to prison for it.



That's not interesting! Let's say he got sent to prison 25 years ago for raping, crucifying, and murdering a small town, and he just got out.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 12:36:34 AM EST
I've got a coworker that is a convicted felon. I'm not exactly sure what he's done but it was something that caused him to be arrested in Florida and then picked up by Texas Rangers and flown back to TX to face trial.

Anyway, he's a good guy now...to the point that he is so straight and narrow its almost scary. He won't even speed, drink, etc. The system seemed to reform him well.

His son loves to shoot and I've also worked with him. The father (the felon) wanted to have his wife buy his son an AR and knowing I liked ARs asked me questions about them so he could tell his wife what to buy. The son lives away from his parents so the gun wouldn't be in the house. The wife keeps several firearms in a safe that the father (felon) cannot access. I didn't feel I was telling this guy anything that would be illegally acted upon. Of course I've worked/known him for about eight years now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:49:37 AM EST
Given the particulars of your question my answer is fuck no.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:53:56 AM EST
You say:

1. I love hypothetical discussions;
2. I really don't care that you have become a police informant and are trying to set me up; or,
3. I intend to vote for Diane Feinstein for Governor.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:57:39 AM EST
Many states allow felons to posses muzzle loading firearms. I would recommend a brace of 1851 Navy Colt percussion revolvers, a SxS muzzle loading 10ga shotgun, and a large Bowie knife.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:43:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:
He's not asking you to sell him any. He just wants your advice on what to buy for himself.


He should buy himself the filiing fees to expunge or seal his record.

Talking him into being legal would be the logical thing.



You can't expunge or seal your record, if you have a felony record. You might be able to obtain a pardon, but an expungement is not a pardon, once your convicted of a felony it's in there forever, there is no such thing as sealing that record.
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