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Posted: 1/7/2005 9:42:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 9:51:31 PM EDT by Jame_Retief]
Will you lock the thread?

I had a reply all written up, too.


ETA: no answer? Here we go:


Alright . . . .some bashing (poink) and some good answers.

Let us get some things straight:

1) As mentioned, becoming 'like' God means that you will have an opportunity to create a world, just as our world was created. This only happens for the most faithful, those who keep all of the promises they make. This is Exaltation.

2) Garments: A symbol of a promise made in the Temple, a sacred covenant between the individual and Heavenly Father. Want to know more? Join up, meet me in the Temple and we'll talk about it. No, I am not kidding. It is sacred, which means that we don't talk about to people who are not part of it. Period. Want to argue? Not interested.

3) Polygamy. The church stopped blessing plural marriage in the late 1800's when the prophet at the time received a revelation which said that we had bigger fish to fry at the moment (paraphrasing ). Since the Church does not bless plural marriage, you can be excommunicated for participating in it. All those little communities that claim to be Mormon fundamentals and practice this? Notice how they seem to concentrate on being able to sleep around as much as possible? That is what they are based on, not my religion. There was a strict set of rulse governing how a plural marriage worked. I have had friends who were very disappointed to hear that having both wives in bed at the same time was against the rules.

3) The Gold Plates: Imagine a book that was almost 12x6x8 (approx) made out of gold. How long do you think that could have been kept safe from people trying to steal it? Eventually it would have been melted down. Too much cash involved. God had the Angel Moroni take it back to safeguard it. There is still 2/3 of the book that went untranslated, this being another reason to return them as this portion was being kept for a leter date and we believe that they will be returned and translated again (the as yet untranslated poritons).

4) Urim & Thummim and the Sword of Laban: The Urim & Thummin wasa glasses-like device that Joseph first used when translating the plates. After a time he no longer needed them for translation. Nothing is said about where they, or the sword of Laban, have ended up. No mention is made of them after the BoM was translated.

5) Joseph Smith's criminal record: 42 arrests and they never convicted him of anything . . . even when the prosecution paid people to testify against him. The mobs finally got tired of not having any reason to hang him . . . he showed that he was not above defending himself and his friends when he used the only pistol available to fire into the mob on the stairs of the jail.

6) Jesus Christ: He is the head of our Church and it bears His name (The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints). His atonement involves the Garden of Gethsemane and his death on the Cross. More important than the Cross (in the opinion of the Church) is his resurrection, which allows all of us to be resurrected, regardless of our status in the next life we will have eternal life (separate from Exaltation).

7) To Poinks qustions: Adam-God Doctrine-two mentions, in passing, as easily attributed to misquotes by those taking dictation at meeting halls. Zero sum. United Order-people refused to stop being the selfish, greedy jerks they have always been and the United Order required that you are not those things, ergo until people can get over this no United Order. Curse of Cain-the Curse of Cain was that his descendant would be the last of the people on earth to receive the Priesthood, thus when God said it was time . . . he gave the revelation to Pres. Spencer W. Kimball to allow the priesthood to be given to those who bear the mark . . . dark skin {most people do not understand that the mark of the curse means only that you are a descendant, not that you are personally cursed}. Blood atonement has not been given up, we still believe in the death penalty and wish that it would be applied when appropriate. New editions of the BoM- simple, the printer who printed the original was a man and made many mistake in the setting of typeface, these have been chased down (sometimes with others made) as well as with grammar, syntax, being adjusted for legibility (it was written down with no breaks in the text, no punctuation and Joseph was not well educated) and the book was printed before 1830 . . . 1830 was when the Church was established. Book of Abraham-if it was written by Abraham, who was not egyptian, then why would it make sense to egyptololgists? There is proof of ancient American civilizations everywhere . . . you have actually paid attention to the fact that there were some rather advanced civilizations around here, yes? They would have made use of many of the same areas used earlier, muddling archaeology, while you will also find many who have found supporting evidence. It is simply that those hwo wish to decry never want to pay attention to that which does not support their theories. The Joseph Smith Translation of the King James Version is actually held in copyright by the RLDS church and, while useful for corrections, was never finished, it seems that the re-translation got interrupted when the Translator sealed his testimony with his blood. The Infamous HIS PROPHECIES DID NOT COME TRUE statement- certainly, those that were not fulfilled becuase of the lack of faith by those who they were made to is unsuprising, IE the establishment of a Temple in Missouri (the saints got run out of Missouri) was prophesied IF the saints were all faithful . . . the land which the temple was to be built on was sold out from underneath the church along with other properties by . . . unfaithful members. This coincides with the failure of the United Order.

As for JS giving up his life in jail . . . when he returned to answer the summons he has been on the far side of the Mississippi river headed to the West to scout out an area for the Church to move to and he could have gone. He never profitted from leading the Church and lost most of his children to the ravages of moving from place to place while being harassed. When he went to Carthage he knew that he would be killed, he refused the offer of the Nauvoo legion to come and break him out of prison ( he was the General of the Legion, a National Guard equivalent of the time). The governor of Illinois feared the mobs more than he feared God and allowed the mob murder to take place (as evidence by his understanding of the cannon fire in Carthage when the hit had been made), he died a broken man (the governor, that is). Oh, the newspaper he had ordered destroyed was a rag to make the National Enquirer jealous for its slander and 'creativity' when discussing those they did not care for and having the typeface strewn in the street was the norm at the time for dealing with such papers (not an uncommon occurence in the US at the time). www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/history/kinderhook.htm This is a reference for the Kinderhook Plates.



If you are really interested in our beliefs, I believe that you can find a copy of the 13 Articles of Faith at the lds.org website. These given a concise explanation of our beliefs.

TNO, thank you for asking. It is good to hear that people can be interested in finding out what others believe. Make a good forum for discussion and tends to strengthen people in their beliefs, especially with those around who would try and tear things down.



As a passing thought . . . the rules for being a God are quite strict, as evidenced by the fact that Heavenly Father follows them assiduosly in governing our own world. Or in other words, yes, there are rules for becoming a God.

Also . . . in the book of Genesis, the original word used for God in the first paragraph refers not to God, but to Gods. This speaks of a council of multiple beings . . . think about that.

As for Jesus being the brother of Satan . . . Christians are quick to point out that God created everything. This being the case . . . . as well, someone mentioned that Christ is the only begotten of the Father IN THE FLESH, an important distiction. Christ had to have both the mortal mother and the immortal Father to perform the Atonement. Of course, this also explains why Satan is so good at getting us to sin . . . he is our brother and no one can hurt you like your family does.


One more side note for the United Order: this was a community system designed around a group of about 20,000 people (a small town) where all things would be held in common. NOT COMMUNISM. You worked your own land and made your own living, putting the excess into a community pool to provide for those who are having problems (house burns down, sick parents, etc) or who are just getting started. The problem became that some people realized that they could try and get away with not keeping things in common and taking from the community pool to make certain that they lived the good life. This is why the United Order failed, but at some point we will be asked to live it again. It was all voluntary, unlike communism/socialism. A similar lifestyle was apparently lived by early Christians.

Any more questions? Anyone? Bueller?

Class is dismissed
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:53:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:55:21 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:15:07 AM EDT
Eric-

Why would Christ preach significantly differently here? Was the message not the same?

The laws that were done away with in Christ were the Laws of Moses (which involved the sacrifice of animals in a likeness of Christs sacrifice) since the coming of Christ did away with the need for such things. The Gospel did not change after Christ.

Since the church which Christ established upon the earth never grew large enough to buld their own temples, there is nothing written down about what they would have done if they did.

scriptures.lds.org/2_thes/2/3#3

There was a falling away from the truth . . . not all things were lost, but enough that truth was lost and the power to work in the name of God was lost. There were those who earnestly tried, but they had lost the authority (priesthood) and the world had to wait for it to be brought back.

The same happened in the New World. Just more spectacularly, with the genocide of an entire people, with the result that there was no one here in the New World worshipping Christ when Columbus got here, they having been killed about a thousand years earlier.

Since there was a falling away, there had to be a restoration. Ergo, Joseph Smith.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:32:31 AM EDT
So tagged...........
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:32:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:35:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 4:36:05 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:47:34 AM EDT
A new documentary (DNA vs. the Book of Mormon) has been released concerning DNA and the peoples of the American continent. In a nut shell, ZERO evidence exists from archeology, linguistics, or DNA that jewish peoples ever existed in the americas prior to the late 1490's. Joseph Smith made up the Book of Mormon which is a story of said Jewish decendants.

Beware of any religion that promises eternal sex in the after life. (cough)Islam(cough)Mormon. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:10:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:11:10 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:15:29 AM EDT
as a non morman living in the middle of utah county i find it sad to watch the absolute control the church takes over my nieghbors i think most people are part of that church because they want to be they best people the can be but they are still under the control of a cult look up what defines a cult and you will find it describes mormanism to a tee
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:22:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tony101664:
as a non morman living in the middle of utah county i find it sad to watch the absolute control the church takes over my nieghbors i think most people are part of that church because they want to be they best people the can be but they are still under the control of a cult look up what defines a cult and you will find it describes mormanism to a tee



You will find that 'cult' is a description for all religions . . . null argument.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:26:05 AM EDT
Poink is an idiot when it comes to religion so don't waste your time on him. People that get so defensive about religion are basically saying: "I know what I am doing is wrong so I will dispute the rules (God) to help rationalize my behavior."

SGtar15
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 10:31:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Didn't all that Israelitish hocus-pocus end with the Coming of the Messiah???

Of course, it did!

When did Jesus ever find the need to have any of His Followers to wear special earthly clothing to identify themselves with the Heavenly Father?

It is hardly likely that the Master of Life Who said:

'The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.' Luke 12:23....

....would give a second's thought for what we wore on earth!

In Heaven, it will be white raiment, with no marks whatsoever on it!

Nope, Mormonism is some strange esoteric 'doctrine of man' that appears to be like some throwback to what its founder must have thought sounded like 'warmed over' Palestinian heresy...and some very nice, sweet, admirable, and thoroughly decent folks have bought into this one man's lies.

Sorry, but that it simply the way it is.

What need we of 'magic stones' when we have the Son of God, in Power at the Right Hand of God?

Now, answer me this, which no Mormon has ever done, at least to me.

Repeat here some 'New World' sermon given by the Resurrected Christ that is contained in the Book of Mormon that is the equivalent of anything that Christ said in the New Testament.

Not a copy of something He said, not a paraphrasing of something He said, but something that the Book of Mormon says He said that equals the Beauty and Truth of the Words of Christ.

And then explain why, the 'very Gates of Hell' prevailed against His 'new' Church in the New World, for there were no 'Mormons' in America when Christopher Columbus landed!

Listen to St. Paul, my Brother:

'But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.' Galatians 1:8

The Book of Mormon is just such 'any other gospel', as St. Paul rightfully cursed!

I base my Christian Doctrine upon the Words of Christ and His Apostles, and never, ever, upon the sad and sappy rantings of the son of a treasure seeker from upstate New York!

God Bless all Mormons and Bring them to the True Light!

Eric The(Christian)Hun



Never in the Gospels did Christ or any of the apostles say that prophets were done aways with. Why then do you have no prophets, ETH? Why are none of your oversized churches held as sacred from the world? (entrance into the temple was not granted to anyone and everyone) In the religion you profess, there are no leaders, only wanderers. Christ established a church, which through the machinations of men, fell. It was not forgotten as it was here, but it fell from grace nonetheless. Why else are there now hundreds of splinters? The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, not a replacement.

scriptures.lds.org/2_cor/13/1#1

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established . . . the Bible being one, where is your second testament?

scriptures.lds.org/matt/7/20#20

You have said it yourself, you never met a Mormon you didn't find as a good person . . . By their fruits ye shall know them . . .

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:02:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:01:46 PM EDT by astro]


"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whosoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward."
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:53:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:26:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By astro:


"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whosoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward."



Yet those who baptized after the baptism of John were told to stop and were re-baptized. Were the apostles wrong to do this?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:31:04 PM EDT
The point is, bro, arguing amongst Christians is fruitless. I happen to agree with you.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:35:59 PM EDT
I believe that as long as you believe the Jesus is the one and only way and accept him as your lord and savior that you are on the right track. However there are major parts of mormon theology that is really messed up. They say that the book of mormon goes hand in hand with the bible but it just simply doesnt. The bible is like a single book from start to finish planned and compiled by one writer even though it took many people in different times to write it. The book of mormon does not continue that legacy at all and has many new teachings that are not included in the bible.

Its not to say that mormons are going to hell or anything. Like I said above If you believe in and have accepted Christ as your lord and savior your on the right track. But someone is going to be a little shocked when/if they get to heaven.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:40:52 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:42:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from Jame_Retief -

Yet those who baptized after the baptism of John were told to stop and were re-baptized. Were the apostles wrong to do this?

Why would anyone think that the Apostles were wrong to re-baptize anyone who had previously been baptized by John the Baptist, whose baptism was the 'baptism for the remission of sins', and to be baptized for the 'remission of sins and to receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit', AFTER the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ?

St. John the Baptist died prior to Our Lord, and the unique significance of Christian baptism is to 'unite' us with Christ, in His Death, Burial and Resurrection.

Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4.

Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2:12

The Baptism of Christ was a new and significant Sacrament for His Church, for it united the Believer with Christ in His Death, Burial and Resurrection.

The Baptism of John did no such thing!

The ancient Roman Historians called it an 'initiation bath', which, in effect, it was!

Eric The(Baptist)Hun



I think his question was rhetorical.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:43:14 PM EDT
Dang, I missed a Mormon thread.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:50:37 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:50:37 PM EDT
uber-tagged for later tonight, and tomorrow, and the next day, and....


Praise the Lord Jesus Christ, and here's hoping the mormons would see their religion for what it is......false.

Glad to see ya back, Eric!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:52:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:52:38 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:52:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:52:37 PM EDT by FanoftheBlackRifle]
ETH......THIS is why I've mised your posts......


I learn something, while at the same time watching a master of argument at work.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:55:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 2:56:04 PM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 2:59:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mojo:

So I notice ETH coming back in full force now....



Its the medication ...
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:01:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:02:59 PM EDT by patsue]
Excellent Eric! We are not too far off from eachother in our doctrine. I understand a little more your position on baptism from this thread then I have in past encounters. Not saying I am in total agreement, but closer then I thought.

You are not far from the kingdom of God- :) hehe



pat(justkidding)sue
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:03:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:04:08 PM EDT by Jame_Retief]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Post from Jame_Retief -

Never in the Gospels did Christ or any of the apostles say that prophets were done aways with.

Ask any Rabbinical Jew of the Temple Period what was the purpose of the prophecies of the Prophets of God and they would have unanimously declared:

'Nothing is written in the Torah, except it is written of the Messiah!'

When the Messiah came, there was NO further need for any prophecies.

We now have the Word of God, living and teaching among His People.

But there is a test for prophets in the Old Testatment, whether they be of God, or not.

Let's test Bros. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young for the accuracy and propitiousness of their prophecies.

Give us a few, if you will!

Why then do you have no prophets, ETH?

Only God and Satan have prophets in the Bible.

And I accept only those of God, and no other.

Why are none of your oversized churches held as sacred from the world? (entrance into the temple was not granted to anyone and everyone)

You do recognize a difference between the church building and the Church of Christ, do you not?

If the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City were suddenly destroyed, would Mormonism end? Of course not!

So why continue to dwell on the profane image of a building and not the Sacred Body of Christ?

In the religion you profess, there are no leaders, only wanderers.

In the Faith that I profess, we have no 'leader' but Jesus Christ and have no need of any human intermediaries between any Saint and the Father in Heaven!

Why insist on going backwards in your Christian Faith?

The Temple had High Priests, and they were of God, but when the Messiah had come and the Temple rendered of no further significance to the Father, the only High Priest left standing before the Father was, is, and will always be the Lord Jesus Christ!

You are attempting to reintroduce a 'Judaism' upon Christianity that even most present-day Jews would reject!

Christ established a church, which through the machinations of men, fell.

Nonsense, the Church remains Immortal. Just as Immortal as the Body of Christ, which it is!

Jesus testified that the very gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church.

And they have not, and they never will, else you are trying to call Jesus a Liar, and that, Sir, is sheer unadulterated blasphemy!!

It was not forgotten as it was here, but it fell from grace nonetheless.

So, the Blood of Christ proved ineffective for those Early Christians, but not for us nowadays?

That is so absurd as to defy human reasoning!

Why else are there now hundreds of splinters?

Because it is the goal of Satan to attempt to destroy the Church of Christ!

So far, however, he has not succeeded, nor will Satan ever succeed!

The Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, not a replacement.

Did Jesus stutter in the Gospels?

Did Jesus mumble in the Gospels?

Did Jesus 'blow it' the First Time, that He needed a 'second chance' to get it right?

Absurd and patently un-Christian!

Hell, that statement is even 'Anti-Christian'!

Folks who think that 'another' Gospel was needed, don't really understand the Gospel of Christ, in the first place!

Eric The(Fundamental)Hun



ETH-

Take some care, you are approaching name calling and that is beneath you.

It is stated in the New testament that by more than one witness all things will be established . . .you ignore the book of scripture you revere as the sole word of God.

Want a revelation that is unclear in the Bible? Simple

Should babies be baptized? The New Testament is unclear on this point, but from sidelong references it is clear that the issue was raised.

5 For, if I have learned the truth, there have been disputations among you concerning the baptism of your little children.
6 And now, my son, I desire that ye should labor diligently, that this gross error should be removed from among you; for, for this intent I have written this epistle.

7 For immediately after I had learned these things of you I inquired of the Lord concerning the matter. And the aword of the Lord came to me by the power of the Holy Ghost, saying:

8 aListen• to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the bwhole• need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little cchildren• are dwhole•, for they are not capable of committing esin; wherefore the curse of fAdam• is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of gcircumcision• is done away in me.

9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn amockery• before God, that ye should baptize little children.

10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are aaccountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little bchildren, and they shall all be saved with their little children.

11 And their little achildren need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the bremission of sins.

12 But little achildren• are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a brespecter• to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism!

13 Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell.

14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither afaith•, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.

15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism.

16 Wo be unto them that shall pervert the ways of the Lord after this manner, for they shall perish except they repent. Behold, I speak with boldness, having aauthority from God; and I fear not what man can do; for bperfect clove dcasteth• out all fear.

Moroni 8: 5-16 scriptures.lds.org/moro/8/5#5



The reference in the New testament that you keep referring to about the Church standing against the gates of hell is an obvious error . . . the syntax and grammar make little sense. Christ told parables that made litttle sense to those who understood them, but was speaking to an apostle, not to an unbeliever and was not speaking in a parable.

When we look at the NT we can see that Christ obviously founded a church that had a distinct form (twelve apostles, the seveny, etc) but we do not see that form in the Church which eventually arose in Rome. Did the Apostles believe that they were to die and leave those on the earth without leadership? If you read your scriptures you see that there were a total of 16 Apostles, four of whom were called to serve after Christ left the Earth. They made the attempt to perpetuate the church, but the technology of the time did not allow easy conferencing to choose new Apostles (travel times were atrocious, the airports had enormous problems ). This meant that with the persecution of the Saints, the leadership of the church was eroded away faster than it could be replaced. As is obvious from Paul's letters that apostasy was the biggest problem the church faced . . . those who saw the power within the Gospel were eager to turn it to their own ends. While the churc members tried to stay faithful . . . eventually they lost those who had the authority to work in the name of God.

scriptures.lds.org/heb/5/4#4 Hebrews 5; 1-4

1 FOR every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are bout• of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins•.

4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron•.

It is a requirement that those who lead in the church must be called as was Aaron . . . he had hands laid on his head by those who had the presthood, as inspired by God. Few Christian preachers even attempt this now and even fewer of them make the attempt to connect their line of authority back to Christ.

Hey don't wimp out now . . . were are just getting to having fun!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:12:14 PM EDT
Welcome back ETH!! you were missed....All I can say is you children crack me up....spend your time understanding Jesus and his teachings, not whether one of you is right and all the others wrong...
The words that youi understand are the important ones.
Oh and if you read the T*r*h , follow the 10 commandments, learn from a Rabbi...then Shaloam my brother.....as you all follow the Rabbi's words.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:29:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 3:31:02 PM EDT by AZYoungGun]
I'm LDS, but I'm not much for arguing myself. I'm not too good at it. But I will say this. People join religions because they believe them to be right and correct. The decision of which to join is to be left up to the individual. When I discuss religion, it is only to inform others of what we believe in so that they may better make their decision. I believe I am a member of the "correct" church, as does every other religious person on Earth. What I can say, without doubt, is that the only way we will find out for sure who is "right" is to wait it out and see what happens at the Second Coming. I'm still building my testimony, but I've got a good idea that I'm where I should be. For others who doubt, you'll have to wait until Jesus comes again to be sure. Believe what you wish. It is not my place to tell you what to believe, just to inform. That's the beauty of the Plan of Salvation - every man has the right to make his own choices, and suffer (or enjoy) the consequences thereof. Good day, ladies and gentlemen.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:40:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:
I'm LDS, but I'm not much for arguing myself. I'm not too good at it. But I will say this. People join religions because they believe them to be right and correct. The decision of which to join is to be left up to the individual. When I discuss religion, it is only to inform others of what we believe in so that they may better make their decision. I believe I am a member of the "correct" church, as does every other religious person on Earth. What I can say, without doubt, is that the only way we will find out for sure who is "right" is to wait it out and see what happens at the Second Coming. I'm still building my testimony, but I've got a good idea that I'm where I should be. For others who doubt, you'll have to wait until Jesus comes again to be sure. Believe what you wish. It is not my place to tell you what to believe, just to inform. That's the beauty of the Plan of Salvation - every man has the right to make his own choices, and suffer (or enjoy) the consequences thereof. Good day, ladies and gentlemen.




Well said.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:45:57 PM EDT
Welcome back Eric.................glad to see you are getting better
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:47:20 PM EDT
Yet another display of "Is Not...Is Too...Is Not...Is Too..."
Said it before and I'll say it again.....NO RELIGION can PROVE they are the THE one and only.
It takes FAITH.
I find it amazing that someone thinks that there is NO possible way that GOD would ever have more to say than what was said thousands of years ago. He's GOD, he could do whatever he wants.
Also, I find it funny that some take the bible so literally when it has changed over the centuries to fit certain peoples beliefs. There is NO WAY that the bible today is a LITERAL AND EXACT translation from the original with NOTHING lost, forgotten, left out by mistake or on purpose.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:51:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yet another display of "Is Not...Is Too...Is Not...Is Too..."
Said it before and I'll say it again.....NO RELIGION can PROVE they are the THE one and only.
It takes FAITH.
I find it amazing that someone thinks that there is NO possible way that GOD would ever have more to say than what was said thousands of years ago. He's GOD, he could do whatever he wants.
Also, I find it funny that some take the bible so literally when it has changed over the centuries to fit certain peoples beliefs. There is NO WAY that the bible today is a LITERAL AND EXACT translation from the original with NOTHING lost, forgotten, left out by mistake or on purpose.





C'mon . . . If I argue enough it will MAKE me right . . .right ?
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:53:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:
I'm LDS, but I'm not much for arguing myself. I'm not too good at it. But I will say this. People join religions because they believe them to be right and correct. The decision of which to join is to be left up to the individual. When I discuss religion, it is only to inform others of what we believe in so that they may better make their decision. I believe I am a member of the "correct" church, as does every other religious person on Earth. What I can say, without doubt, is that the only way we will find out for sure who is "right" is to wait it out and see what happens at the Second Coming. I'm still building my testimony, but I've got a good idea that I'm where I should be. For others who doubt, you'll have to wait until Jesus comes again to be sure. Believe what you wish. It is not my place to tell you what to believe, just to inform. That's the beauty of the Plan of Salvation - every man has the right to make his own choices, and suffer (or enjoy) the consequences thereof.



Translation: "I'm looking forward to populating my own planet with my many wives in a state of endless celestial sex."


Good day, ladies and gentlemen.


"Later, suckers. "

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:05:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yet another display of "Is Not...Is Too...Is Not...Is Too..."
Said it before and I'll say it again.....NO RELIGION can PROVE they are the THE one and only.
It takes FAITH.
I find it amazing that someone thinks that there is NO possible way that GOD would ever have more to say than what was said thousands of years ago. He's GOD, he could do whatever he wants.
Also, I find it funny that some take the bible so literally when it has changed over the centuries to fit certain peoples beliefs. There is NO WAY that the bible today is a LITERAL AND EXACT translation from the original with NOTHING lost, forgotten, left out by mistake or on purpose.




WHAT!!! A rational, level-headed, non-argumentative, non-condescending, objective post in an LDS thread?

OUTRAGE!!
LOCK HIS ACCOUNT!!
SEND HIM TO HIS ROOM!!
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:14:04 PM EDT
Nothing causes more discord than people arguing religion, with the possible exception of politics....

Discord is a weapon of Satan,

I feel that more harm comes from christians fighting among each other over their beliefs on how to worship than from anything else, at least in regards to spirits of animosity and Satan causing society to crumble...

About all I have to say as I do not wish to piss off ANY members of this board, at least on the account of Christianity
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:20:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 4:23:35 PM EDT by hydgirl]

Originally Posted By mojo:

So I notice ETH coming back in full force now....


I think there is only one heresy that gets his dander up more than my particular brand and that's the Mormons. Me? I've got smokes, coca-cola, and some popcorn. I'm having a ball with this.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:49:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Nothing causes more discord than people arguing religion, with the possible exception of politics....

Discord is a weapon of Satan,

I feel that more harm comes from christians fighting among each other over their beliefs on how to worship than from anything else, at least in regards to spirits of animosity and Satan causing society to crumble...

About all I have to say as I do not wish to piss off ANY members of this board, at least on the account of Christianity



"Discord is the weapon of Satan." Uh, no. I would have liked to see you say that to Christ when he drove out the moneychangers in the temple.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Discord is a weapon of Satan,


Personally, I think if all of humanity were meant to agree on everything (ie harmony) then... we would. Thinking, reasoning human beings aren't designed to all agree. We do in the context of a limited social group, that much of that depends on geography.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:55:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:59:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hydgirl:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Discord is a weapon of Satan,


Personally, I think if all of humanity were meant to agree on everything (ie harmony) then... we would. Thinking, reasoning human beings aren't designed to all agree. We do in the context of a limited social group, that much of that depends on geography.



Discord isn't concerned with agreeing or disagreeing. Discord is your little sister accusing you of drinking 3/4 of the grape juice.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:06:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By hydgirl:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Discord is a weapon of Satan,


Personally, I think if all of humanity were meant to agree on everything (ie harmony) then... we would. Thinking, reasoning human beings aren't designed to all agree. We do in the context of a limited social group, that much of that depends on geography.



Discord isn't concerned with agreeing or disagreeing. Discord is your little sister accusing you of drinking 3/4 of the grape juice.


I heartily beg to differ. Disagreement is the heart of discord. Given your example, I would disagree with my sister that I drank the juice. It wouldn't matter to mom either way and she'd smack both of us.

The only difference between simple disagreement and all out war is the level of emotion involved.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:13:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brasspile:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
Nothing causes more discord than people arguing religion, with the possible exception of politics....

Discord is a weapon of Satan,

I feel that more harm comes from christians fighting among each other over their beliefs on how to worship than from anything else, at least in regards to spirits of animosity and Satan causing society to crumble...

About all I have to say as I do not wish to piss off ANY members of this board, at least on the account of Christianity



This is ARF, religion and politics are the target of every day.

P.S. Mormons do not fall under the classical sense of "Christians"...



Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:30:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:31:06 PM EDT by slash-5]

Why are none of your oversized churches held as sacred from the world? (entrance into the temple was not granted to anyone and everyone)


But it was according to God after Christ died on the cross. It is for that reason the veil was ripped in the Holy of Holies in the Temple.

I think the most damming evidence against JS is the fact that he was a Mason.





(J/K Eric The (ChristianbutmisguidedaboutMasons) Hun)
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:40:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slash-5:

Why are none of your oversized churches held as sacred from the world? (entrance into the temple was not granted to anyone and everyone)


But it was according to God after Christ died on the cross. It is for that reason the veil was ripped in the Holy of Holies in the Temple.

I think the most damming evidence against JS is the fact that he was a Mason.



Nice answer, but speculative.

The veil in the temple was torn, because the Jews were implicit in the death of the savior and thus the temple lost its sacred status. Of course that is speculative as well, but the least that could be said is that it was in recognition of Christ passing through the veil into the spirit world. Inconclusive for God having anything to say about Temples not being needed . . .nothing is said in the Gospels about it (and since I do not view the Gospels as being the end of the matter . . .) It was not long after this (75 yrs?) that the Jews rebelled and the Romans tore the Temple down.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:47:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 5:49:20 PM EDT by sterling18]
Popcorn ------- Check
Soda -------- Check
Wireless Mouse ------- Check
Wireless Keyboard -------- Check

ETH (damn kids get off my lawn) ------ Check

Folks bashing other folks in the name of Christ ------- Check

Ok, I've got everthing bring on the show.

You know this is Satan's plan to divide and conquer

eta: SPECTRE, nice to see you around again.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 5:58:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:10:22 PM EDT
LOL....I remember I was talking ot G*d one day, I asked him..'Boss, so which religion is the right one?' G*d said to me, 'I don't know, that is one thing I did not create'
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:25:20 PM EDT
ETH, Just a quick word or two, I agree with you on the Mormons being misguided. The entire thing smells of something a man thought up.

Second, I am a freemason.... I really dont see what the big deal about masons really is. If you want to know about them all you have to do is find a local lodge and ask them. They are always looking for new members to help pay dues.....A lot of people have a misconception about masons in that they think it is a religion, it's not. We have a bible in the center of the room out of respect for GOD. The lodges in Georgia do charity work and almost all of it is for orphaned kids. That is why I still support them.

I never have understood the mystique of masonry that people have, never....

One other thing, someone commented on you ability to argue the Truth.... The Truth doesn't need arguing, it will stand on it's own just fine. That is why it is so easy to argue in favor of it.

Keep up the good fight, it is obvious that you are much more articulate that I am though so go get 'em.
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