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Posted: 3/16/2011 12:57:01 PM EDT
Without overloading the amount of medical gear to the point of a medic or field surgeon's carry load (strictly speaking a shooter's rig here,) which MOLLE compatible pouch on the market would you select, and what medical gear would you have in it, compared to/basing off of a std issue USGI medkit?

Keep a SHTF condition in mind (take your pick,) where medevac and/or a better equipped medical facility may not be readily available.

So, which pouch (ex: ATS kit, BFG trauma kit NOW, HSGI, esstac medrat, etc) and what medical gear would you keep in it?
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:13:53 PM EDT
I use a dedicated CountyComm Mine bag:






The contents are function of what you are experienced and competent using. I have EMT training and experience - so I stock things that others might not. I am wary of recommending items that folks have never used.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:19:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 1:20:55 PM EDT by DrJWelch]
Put what you know how to use (have been trained in) in your kit.
For a shooter kit you need to be able to stop bleeding (and bleeding and bleeding) and seal a sucking chest wound. Anything besides that you would need training. So I would just focus on hemorrhage control and sealing a sucking chest wound -then I would pursue penetrating trauma training.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:23:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 1:24:19 PM EDT by SultanOfBrunei]
Originally Posted By DrJWelch:
Put what you know how to use (have been trained in) in your kit.
For a shooter kit, you need to be able to stop bleeding and bleeding and bleeding and seal a sucking chest wound. Anything besides that you would need training in so just focus on the first two items.

True, but since a generic SHTF scenario may be more likely there are many more items you could/should carry in addition to a blow-out kit.

Bug spray, sun screen, disinfectant spray, cough drops, epi-pens, cold packs, band-aids, gauze, ace bandages, and much more.

Not exciting, and not very tactical. But I would imagine 1,000x more useful in a Katrina-style SHTF.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:34:27 PM EDT
Nothing wrong with a small trauma kit but for every death caused by a firefight there will be 50 due to poor health, so make sure you don't forget a nice full sized first aid kit w/ meds.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:42:13 PM EDT
I'm building a few kits at the moment...

A home kit which is the most comprehensive, consisting of multiple smaller bags housed in a backpack. Each smaller bag has a specific purpose (airway management, IV therapy, wound management, etc). I'll also have a 'grab & go' bag of meds in the fridge.

Will also have a kit for each auto, each smaller than the home kit & more focused on trauma than anything else.

And finally, very small first-aid kits that fit into small camelback backpacks, also containing other 'survival' items. These are personalized, so for example my wife has a couple tampons, and I have a spare set of contacts (in addition to standard fair). Just little grab & go bags that are good for an unexpected day or two away from civilization. I keep these in our respective autos as well, so they're kind of a supplement to the larger kit so long as we're not on foot.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:45:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 1:45:35 PM EDT by Tradesman]
Plenty of gauze and duct tape. A tourniquet or two. Everything else is an unneeded luxury.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:46:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 1:48:53 PM EDT by Plissken]
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:51:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Plissken:
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1161946

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:59:12 PM EDT
Unless you have access to IV bags, fluids, and caths your pretty SOL unless you can get real medical help.

Best I can think for light traumas:
5 liters NaCl
5 IV lines
10 angiocaths
3 Suture kits
3 Hemostats
Various syringes 18-25ga
3 Epinepherine ampules
3 Atropine amupules
Stethescope
BP Cuff
2 Tourniquet
Plenty of bandages, guaze, tape, steristrips, butterflies, tegaderm, ace bandages, etc
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 1:59:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 2:04:14 PM EDT by wvusoldier217]
it is a 5 part series but you will learn a lot



eta: i keep one of these in my truck and take it with me when i can on hikes. its big and somewhat heavy but i feel much better having it. as for what I run on my IBA ( army infantry FWIW) i run an original SOE tear off IFAK with extra IZY bandages and quickclot in addition to the standard stuff. Its a little bigger and bulkier but again i like to be prepared.

http://originalsoegear.com/tearifak.html
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 2:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 2:07:28 PM EDT by Leanangle]
Originally Posted By Plissken:
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?


My smaller kits are housed in Camelbak M.U.L.E.s. Since they're limited in size, I only carry stuff that's most important to immediate survival... triangle bandages (which can double as tourniquets), bloodstoppers, epinephrin / benadryl, strong analgesics, steri-strips, a sam splint, 4 & 6" ace-type bandages, large self-adhesive petroleum gauze pads, oral rehydration powder, etc, etc. As stated above, I also carry non-med related items in these packs, so if it's a dedicated first-aid kit, you could get alot more in than I. The new MULE looks alot different than the ones I have, but I assume they're still very well compartmentalized, which helped with organization. I particularly like having a water bladder not only for hydration, but also possibly for wound irrigation. Hell... tt could even be used for hydration via an enema I really dig the camelbaks for this use.

Camelbak MULE
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 2:03:56 PM EDT
I would really suggest taking a Red Cross first aid course if you're completely untrained. It'll give you some idea of what you're supposed to be doing and they'll do a good job of telling you what you should have in your first aid kit.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:26:21 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:29:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 5:30:02 PM EDT by BlueJames]
I'll say what I always say in these threads. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. Especially when it comes to someone's health. You may think you're doing a kind, Samaritan act but in fact could be doing serious harm to a person. My advice: go take a course before you even think about touching a patient. Until then, stick to first aid (bandaids, etc.).
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:30:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CWO:
I use a dedicated CountyComm Mine bag:



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Eyesofsilver/Knives/IMG_0893.jpg


The contents are function of what you are experienced and competent using. I have EMT training and experience - so I stock things that others might not. I am wary of recommending items that folks have never used.


that is a good looking bag and I am looking for one for the house first aid kit. I have ones for the vehicles and a IFAK for me.
Where did you find the first aid marker or can you order that from County comm? So as to identify the bag.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:49:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BlueJames:
I'll say what I always say in these threads. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. Especially when it comes to someone's health. You may think you're doing a kind, Samaritan act but in fact could be doing serious harm to a person. My advice: go take a course before you even think about touching a patient. Until then, stick to first aid (bandaids, etc.).


That's all being handled, but doesn't help regarding my inquiry.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:59:34 PM EDT
Untrained civilian here. My "EDC" first aid kit has asprine, ibuprophen, antacids, penlight, pen, index cards, some kind of anti-diarhea pills, about 3' of duct tape, a couple adhesive bandages, a couple exam gloves, about 3' of paracord, pepper spray, $100 cash (5x $20 bills), and my cellphone. I'm planning to add a Leatherman PS4 to that. It all fits in a Maxpedition M-2 waistpack.

For a range kit, it's the above plus an emergency bandage. If there an injury that requires more than that, I'm probably fucked anyways.

With how common bloodborn pathogens are, I'd say gloves are absolutely manditory if you think you may be using the kit on someone other than yourself.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 6:10:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 6:14:08 PM EDT by BlueJames]
Originally Posted By Plissken:
Originally Posted By BlueJames:
I'll say what I always say in these threads. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. Especially when it comes to someone's health. You may think you're doing a kind, Samaritan act but in fact could be doing serious harm to a person. My advice: go take a course before you even think about touching a patient. Until then, stick to first aid (bandaids, etc.).


That's all being handled, but doesn't help regarding my inquiry.


You failed to explain that in the OP. And yes, my response does provide you with the answer to what you should put in your aid bag: NOTHING, until you are qualified to use the contents.

If you really 'need' to put something in there, stick to Kerlix, Ace wraps, bandaids and Neosporin. Stay away from injectables and meds (of any kind).
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 6:10:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 8:03:03 PM EDT by CWO]

Originally Posted By jamesb74:
Originally Posted By CWO:
I use a dedicated CountyComm Mine bag:



http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/Eyesofsilver/Knives/IMG_0893.jpg


The contents are function of what you are experienced and competent using. I have EMT training and experience - so I stock things that others might not. I am wary of recommending items that folks have never used.


that is a good looking bag and I am looking for one for the house first aid kit. I have ones for the vehicles and a IFAK for me.
Where did you find the first aid marker or can you order that from County comm? So as to identify the bag.

I have several of those bags for various dedicated purposes - and I put velcro patches on some to identify them quickly in an emergency. The velcro "First Aid" patch was custom made by an online company.... I can't find the receipt right now.

ETA: Found it: http://www.1800nametape.com/law.htm#5

Another example of a patch:



Link Posted: 3/16/2011 7:03:03 PM EDT
Check out this post in the survival forum: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=18&t=644558&page=1
Link Posted: 3/17/2011 11:03:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BlueJames:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
Originally Posted By BlueJames:
I'll say what I always say in these threads. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. Especially when it comes to someone's health. You may think you're doing a kind, Samaritan act but in fact could be doing serious harm to a person. My advice: go take a course before you even think about touching a patient. Until then, stick to first aid (bandaids, etc.).


That's all being handled, but doesn't help regarding my inquiry.


You failed to explain that in the OP. And yes, my response does provide you with the answer to what you should put in your aid bag: NOTHING, until you are qualified to use the contents.

If you really 'need' to put something in there, stick to Kerlix, Ace wraps, bandaids and Neosporin. Stay away from injectables and meds (of any kind).


They're to be used ON me, not by me
Link Posted: 3/17/2011 11:19:09 AM EDT
I love plissken threads. Also, tag for the lulz.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/17/2011 2:38:16 PM EDT
http://www.rescue-essentials.com/Casualty_Response_Kits_Modules_s/122.htm

They seem to carry a lot of different options at different price and skill ranges.
Link Posted: 3/18/2011 1:45:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2011 1:56:21 PM EDT by floridahunter07]
Originally Posted By Floofy:
Nothing wrong with a small trauma kit but for every death caused by a firefight there will be 50 due to poor health, so make sure you don't forget a nice full sized first aid kit w/ meds.


And an active lifestyle. I'm going to the gym to work on that aspect in about 30 minutes.

All the trauma kits and cases of ammo in the world are no good if you weigh 350lb and the last time you saw the sunshine was through the basement window last weekend.

Here is my kit:










The only thing in it I haven't had experience using is the NPA, but it came with the bag so I leave it in there. I added another roll or two of kerlix since the picture was taken. The kit stays behind the passenger seat on the floor in my car. I also keep a pair of nitrile gloves in my pocket on a daily basis and have come close to having to use them more than once.
Link Posted: 3/18/2011 4:56:56 PM EDT
What level of medical training are you/ your friends at/ are taking? Do you know what to do to treat a tension pneumothorax (with out using Google)? Are you going to reply to my PM reply?
Link Posted: 3/19/2011 8:16:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2011 8:20:04 AM EDT by Plissken]
My friends and I will be trained personally by a friend of mine who's a Capt in the US Army, 44th Medical Brigade, a field surgeon who served in combat as an attache alongside a detachment/team from 75th Ranger in Iraq for a while. We'll know how to treat a tension pneumothorax among other things after this.

Training goes down in June.

Beyond that I'm only good up to basic first aid, for now. Didn't hurt to ask in the meantime, I got a lot of help out of it.
Link Posted: 3/19/2011 8:03:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Plissken:
My friends and I will be trained personally by a friend of mine who's a Capt in the US Army, 44th Medical Brigade, a field surgeon who served in combat as an attache alongside a detachment/team from 75th Ranger in Iraq for a while. We'll know how to treat a tension pneumothorax among other things after this.

Training goes down in June.

Beyond that I'm only good up to basic first aid, for now. Didn't hurt to ask in the meantime, I got a lot of help out of it.


Take a look
Link Posted: 3/19/2011 9:07:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Plissken:
My friends and I will be trained personally by a friend of mine who's a Capt in the US Army, 44th Medical Brigade, a field surgeon who served in combat as an attache alongside a detachment/team from 75th Ranger in Iraq for a while. We'll know how to treat a tension pneumothorax among other things after this.

Training goes down in June.

Beyond that I'm only good up to basic first aid, for now. Didn't hurt to ask in the meantime, I got a lot of help out of it.


Take a look


Much appreciated
Link Posted: 3/19/2011 9:28:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2011 9:38:24 PM EDT by deuce_22]
I've got three kits, with various things in them.

A Tactical Tailor, an ATS, and an Eagle

Various supplies in each from Chinook Medical (www.chinookmed.com)

Including, but not limited to:

Nitrile GLOVES
CoFlex AFD dressing
HALO cheat seals
Asherman seal
SOFT-Wide Tourniquet
Decompression Needle, 3.25"
Olaes Bandage (4" & 6")
SAM Splints
Oral & Nasal Airways, Surgilube for the nasals
Combat casualty card
Kerlix Gauze
PrMed Compressed gauze
Z-Pak Gauze
Petroleum gauze
Elastic Bandage 4"
Duct tape
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 6:45:23 PM EDT
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 6:54:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2011 7:08:11 PM EDT by Banjaxed]
For a small Molle pouch occlusive dressing, shears,several sized dressings and med tape, compression bandages, quick clot, pocket mask, tourniquet. Now with an assault pack that list grows.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 6:55:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tradesman:
Plenty of gauze and duct tape. A tourniquet or two. Everything else is an unneeded luxury.


With a sucking chest wound an occlusive dressing is not a luxury.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 6:58:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 7:00:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Not so. If you can control bleeding fast enough fluid loss is not your number one concern.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 7:06:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.


This is why training in more than just gun fighting is paramount to survival in a SHTF scenario. Call around to your local fire departments and hospitals. See if any will be offering an EMT-B class that will be open to the public. Many of them do this semi regularly for their members and will open them up to the public to offset the costs. Many times you can get the full course including books for under $600. This was how I got my EMT license and it only took about six months of class two nights a week and 40 hours of clinical time. I now work as an EMT at a local hospital a few nights per month which nets me a little extra cash as well as a ton of experience hands on. Currently in more class so I can get a P next to that.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 7:23:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.


This is why training in more than just gun fighting is paramount to survival in a SHTF scenario. Call around to your local fire departments and hospitals. See if any will be offering an EMT-B class that will be open to the public. Many of them do this semi regularly for their members and will open them up to the public to offset the costs. Many times you can get the full course including books for under $600. This was how I got my EMT license and it only took about six months of class two nights a week and 40 hours of clinical time. I now work as an EMT at a local hospital a few nights per month which nets me a little extra cash as well as a ton of experience hands on. Currently in more class so I can get a P next to that.


I'm taking EMT-B now. Since you've got yours and use it, you would understand why all these best *insert item* for SHTF is pointless. Unless you have a team of well trained and practiced faceshooters and a functional support capability, you lose. SHTF is more or less defined by a lack of guaranteed support. After realizing what the horrors of SHTF are, you reallize how any individualistic training for SHTF is mental masterbation. A trauma kit may be able to do ABCs, but that will just guarantee a slower painful death of your buddy or you while you or your buddy watch if S has really HTF. We dont realize how good we have it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 8:16:32 PM EDT
These guys are all right, DO NOT ATTEMPT to perform serious trauma care unless you are trained or have at least an idea of what is going on. I am not a trained medic but I do have CPR/AED and some basic training. That and my mother is a registered RN and she taught me a lot, but that doesn't certify me but I know what to do for myself. The IFAK I have seen.

C.A.T. Tourniquet
Roll of heavy duty tape
Airway, Nasopharyngeal, 28fr
2 pairs of surgical gloves
Heavy elastic with velcro ended gauze type wrap (almost like an ACE bandage but way more advanced)
Large Roll Gauze

I am not a certified/trained medic, I am just telling you what I have seen and from what little I was trained in from my former job so please don't take my advice as trained and knowledgable instruction, it is only what I listened to from the ones that were trained. I used to work in corrections at our sheriff's department and I did a lot of training with the SWAT team. Basically I was their lackey that they could use to fill in for a wounded operator, or a terrorist, or a hostage or whatever. But in the sessions I trained with them, I learned about their IFAK's and the use of the stuff in them. The CAT's are for heavy arterial bleeding that can't be stopped with just compression and gauze packing the wound. Basically they trained to pack the wound with gauze as tight as they could stuff the gauze into the wound and then tightly wrap the elastic wrap around it (or tape) and if that wouldn't stop bleeding, the CAT tourniquet would go above the wound and get cranked down. And the CAT's could be applied by the operator themselves with one hand. And when they are put on, they don't go over any web gear or straps or anything, they gotta be either directly on the skin or over the uniform. When the gauze roll was pulled out of the package, the medic that was talking about it showed that they don't unroll the roll of gauze and then put it into the wound, they would hold the roll of gauze in their hand, pinch the middle of the roll on the end of the roll and pull the center out of the roll in a wad and start packing it into the wound that way (not sure if that makes sense the way I described it). The airway tube is for unconsious operators, if one was knocked out or on the verge of it, another operator would insert that tube into the nasal cavity up into the sinus and the wounded operator would be laid on his side in the "Rescue Position" and that airway tube was to ensure that they could still breath. Basically the stuff in that kit was to be applied by another operator as the wounded guy would be down and out, and they taught how the medical supplies used on the wounded operator should come out of that wounded operators kit due to the fact that the guy helping him could get hit later and then not have his own IFAK supplies to be applied on him by another guy. Just my 2 cents to this topic that could go in circles like my wife's pug (I call it our MRE on legs) chasing its tail
Link Posted: 3/20/2011 8:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.


This is why training in more than just gun fighting is paramount to survival in a SHTF scenario. Call around to your local fire departments and hospitals. See if any will be offering an EMT-B class that will be open to the public. Many of them do this semi regularly for their members and will open them up to the public to offset the costs. Many times you can get the full course including books for under $600. This was how I got my EMT license and it only took about six months of class two nights a week and 40 hours of clinical time. I now work as an EMT at a local hospital a few nights per month which nets me a little extra cash as well as a ton of experience hands on. Currently in more class so I can get a P next to that.


I'm taking EMT-B now. Since you've got yours and use it, you would understand why all these best *insert item* for SHTF is pointless. Unless you have a team of well trained and practiced faceshooters and a functional support capability, you lose. SHTF is more or less defined by a lack of guaranteed support. After realizing what the horrors of SHTF are, you reallize how any individualistic training for SHTF is mental masterbation. A trauma kit may be able to do ABCs, but that will just guarantee a slower painful death of your buddy or you while you or your buddy watch if S has really HTF. We dont realize how good we have it.




Doing noting guarantees the death of your buddy. I use my license and in that time have seen the miracle that is the human bodies ability to heal itself after some pretty serious fucking boo boos. Of course that is certain not to happen if they bleed out and go into hypoperfusion first. Also remember care does not stop at the Basic level. Just because my license currently stops at basic does not mean I am incapable of delivering care at a level beyond my scope of practice. I have assisted with many procedures numerous times on crazy nights in the ER that go beyond my pay grade and feel confident enough to attempt such procedures myself in a situation where hospitals are out of the question and certain death is the alternative to advanced intervention.

My personal kit contains more than splints and BVMs.
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 2:59:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
I'm taking EMT-B now. Since you've got yours and use it, you would understand why all these best *insert item* for SHTF is pointless. Unless you have a team of well trained and practiced faceshooters and a functional support capability, you lose. SHTF is more or less defined by a lack of guaranteed support. After realizing what the horrors of SHTF are, you reallize how any individualistic training for SHTF is mental masterbation. A trauma kit may be able to do ABCs, but that will just guarantee a slower painful death of your buddy or you while you or your buddy watch if S has really HTF. We dont realize how good we have it.


I disagree.

I'd consider a home invasion, fire, heart attack, major car accident, ND at the range, etc., as a short term "SHTF" event. Professional help may not be there immediately, but it will show up in minutes (just long enough for someon to die waiting for help). A few years ago one of my co-workers choked on a piece of poorly chewed food. If someone wasn't there to heimlich him, the brown stuff would have rapidly hit the spinny thing as far as he was concerned.

You don't need a nuclear winter for emergency to happen. My next "SHTF" prep purchase is going to be a couple more fire alarms, a couple extra extinquishers, and another CO detectors.
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 3:40:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xdoctor:
I would really suggest taking a Red Cross first aid course if you're completely untrained. It'll give you some idea of what you're supposed to be doing and they'll do a good job of telling you what you should have in your first aid kit.

While I agree, I'd suggest getting First Responder/BEC certification. I'm an EMT-B, and I have to say... the stuff you learn that they don't teach you in that 8 hour class, is monumental.


Link Posted: 3/21/2011 3:43:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:
Originally Posted By DrJWelch:
Put what you know how to use (have been trained in) in your kit.
For a shooter kit, you need to be able to stop bleeding and bleeding and bleeding and seal a sucking chest wound. Anything besides that you would need training in so just focus on the first two items.

True, but since a generic SHTF scenario may be more likely there are many more items you could/should carry in addition to a blow-out kit.

Bug spray, sun screen, disinfectant spray, cough drops, epi-pens, cold packs, band-aids, gauze, ace bandages, and much more.

Not exciting, and not very tactical. But I would imagine 1,000x more useful in a Katrina-style SHTF.

I've actually been shot in the leg.... and that was my one and only medical/trauma emergency I've ever had.

One thing that sucks about stocking a first aid kit, is that the biggest thing about treating trauma... is oxygen. Kinda hard to keep that in a bag in your car. I mean, I'm pretty sure keeping a pressurized oxygen tank in the trunk of a car is a pretty bad idea.
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 3:43:56 AM EDT
good info here
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 3:54:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Plissken:
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?

In that case, if this kit is explicitly for YOU...

Gauze
Bandage Wraps
Tourniquet
Occlusive dressings (Ascherman Chest seal for instance... although, a piece of plastic sheeting, and some tape will work fine. Just tape 3 sides, or tape all four side, but leave a small corner open. These are used on sucking chest wounds)
Nasopharyngeal airway sized for you (this is for SOMEONE ELSE TO PUT IN YOU. Chances are, if your of enough mind to apply it to yourself... you don't need it.)
Medic scissors
Sling and Swath
Chemlight
Hemostatic agent (Celox or Quickclot, I've heard some people say they prefer Celox, since it does not cause an thermal reaction)
Burn ointment

Also... if your part of some sort of... "paramilitary" group, or survivalist group, or a group of friends trying to fight your way through zombie infested NYC.... and one happens to be a full blown paramedic... include a decompression needle in your kit. Remember, the items in your kit, don't necessarilly have to be used BY YOU, they can be used ON YOU.



Link Posted: 3/21/2011 4:00:23 AM EDT
Another caveat... I must stress. if you get a decompression needle, ONLY ALLOW QUALIFIED PARAMEDICS IN IT'S USE. IMPROPER USE OF A DECOMPRESSION NEEDLE, MAY CAUSE THE PATIENT TO BLEED OUT!

The Decompression needle is used to decompress air in the chest, which is trapped between the chest wall, and the lungs...making it hard for one to breath.
As an EMT-B, I *STILL* am not qualified in it's use... nor do I know how to use one. The area where the needle is put, needs to be precise. If one places it in the wrong place, it can puncture a major artery, and kill the patient.

So again. Only include it for use by Paramedics around you.
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 4:00:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:

Originally Posted By Plissken:
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?

In that case, if this kit is explicitly for YOU...

Gauze
Bandage Wraps
Tourniquet
Occlusive dressings (Ascherman Chest seal for instance... although, a piece of plastic sheeting, and some tape will work fine. Just tape 3 sides, or tape all four side, but leave a small corner open. These are used on sucking chest wounds)
Nasopharyngeal airway sized for you (this is for SOMEONE ELSE TO PUT IN YOU. Chances are, if your of enough mind to apply it to yourself... you don't need it.)
Medic scissors
Sling and Swath
Chemlight
Hemostatic agent (Celox or Quickclot, I've heard some people say they prefer Celox, since it does not cause an thermal reaction)
Burn ointment

Also... if your part of some sort of... "paramilitary" group, or survivalist group, or a group of friends trying to fight your way through zombie infested NYC.... and one happens to be a full blown paramedic... include a decompression needle in your kit. Remember, the items in your kit, don't necessarilly have to be used BY YOU, they can be used ON YOU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNSuSXSo5Pk


Soon as I saw who was in that video all credibility went out the window.
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 4:24:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RePp:
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:

Originally Posted By Plissken:
Good input so far. I'm moreso focused on the smaller kind of Med/blowout kits one would see attached to vests/belts.

Anybody can weigh in here who owns or has experience with this: .mil, LEO, EMT, contractor/PMC, civilian.

Looking pretty much for a "this is the pouch I run, and this is What I keep in/on it."

Also, for our recent veterans of the last decade: what are the contents of the USGI individual/infantry IFAK, how big is it, and what would you add/subtract to/from it?

In that case, if this kit is explicitly for YOU...

Gauze
Bandage Wraps
Tourniquet
Occlusive dressings (Ascherman Chest seal for instance... although, a piece of plastic sheeting, and some tape will work fine. Just tape 3 sides, or tape all four side, but leave a small corner open. These are used on sucking chest wounds)
Nasopharyngeal airway sized for you (this is for SOMEONE ELSE TO PUT IN YOU. Chances are, if your of enough mind to apply it to yourself... you don't need it.)
Medic scissors
Sling and Swath
Chemlight
Hemostatic agent (Celox or Quickclot, I've heard some people say they prefer Celox, since it does not cause an thermal reaction)
Burn ointment

Also... if your part of some sort of... "paramilitary" group, or survivalist group, or a group of friends trying to fight your way through zombie infested NYC.... and one happens to be a full blown paramedic... include a decompression needle in your kit. Remember, the items in your kit, don't necessarilly have to be used BY YOU, they can be used ON YOU.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNSuSXSo5Pk


Soon as I saw who was in that video all credibility went out the window.
Whatever you may think of the guy, he is right on on a lot of it.

Link Posted: 3/21/2011 5:18:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2011 5:21:03 AM EDT by BayEagle]
I've got four of these with 99% of the same contents. Caveat - not a pro, I built these with input from my hunting/shooting buddy who is Ex-SF and now a SWAT sniper. The 5.11 pouch holds all this, is not over-stuffed and can still be shoved into a cargo pocket if I wanted to. The Danish stuff is from a big civil defense bag I got a few years back. Nice quality stuff in there and it allowed me to fill multiple kits. I use the snivel kit contents, tape and New Skin more than anything. Thank God I haven't needed the heavy duty items.



1 - 5.11 FAK Pouch
1 - EMT Shears
1 - LED Light
2 - 5x9
2 - 4x4
2 - 6x6 (Danish)
1 - Triangular (Danish)
1 - Triangular (USGI)
1 - 4x75 Sof-Kling gauze bandage
1 - Tampon
1 - Roll 1" Cloth Tape
2 - Pair gloves
1 - Quick Clot Sport 3.5" Sponge
1 - 1oz Tincture Iodine
1 - 1oz New Skin
1 - 4.0 cutting needle/18"suture
1 - Snivel Kit in separate small box:
- Mitigate Anti-itch
- Asst. Bandaids
- Butterflys
- Neosporin
- Wipes
- Children's and Adult Benedryl
- Claritin
- Motrin,Tylenol,Excedrin,Aleve
- Eye drops
- Moleskin
- 3ft Orange Duct Tape
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 5:54:49 AM EDT

I'm going to make a general announcement- if someone finds me unconcious and then sticks a safety pin through my lip and tongue to secure my airway instead of just putting me in the recovery position, I'm going to hunt his ass down and administer some remedial training ("at the risk of seeming ungrateful").

Good lord that's alarming.

Link Posted: 3/21/2011 9:54:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.


This is why training in more than just gun fighting is paramount to survival in a SHTF scenario. Call around to your local fire departments and hospitals. See if any will be offering an EMT-B class that will be open to the public. Many of them do this semi regularly for their members and will open them up to the public to offset the costs. Many times you can get the full course including books for under $600. This was how I got my EMT license and it only took about six months of class two nights a week and 40 hours of clinical time. I now work as an EMT at a local hospital a few nights per month which nets me a little extra cash as well as a ton of experience hands on. Currently in more class so I can get a P next to that.


I'm taking EMT-B now. Since you've got yours and use it, you would understand why all these best *insert item* for SHTF is pointless. Unless you have a team of well trained and practiced faceshooters and a functional support capability, you lose. SHTF is more or less defined by a lack of guaranteed support. After realizing what the horrors of SHTF are, you reallize how any individualistic training for SHTF is mental masterbation. A trauma kit may be able to do ABCs, but that will just guarantee a slower painful death of your buddy or you while you or your buddy watch if S has really HTF. We dont realize how good we have it.




Doing noting guarantees the death of your buddy. I use my license and in that time have seen the miracle that is the human bodies ability to heal itself after some pretty serious fucking boo boos. Of course that is certain not to happen if they bleed out and go into hypoperfusion first. Also remember care does not stop at the Basic level. Just because my license currently stops at basic does not mean I am incapable of delivering care at a level beyond my scope of practice. I have assisted with many procedures numerous times on crazy nights in the ER that go beyond my pay grade and feel confident enough to attempt such procedures myself in a situation where hospitals are out of the question and certain death is the alternative to advanced intervention.

My personal kit contains more than splints and BVMs.


That's all well and good, but he was asking for an IFAK. But that is generally only good for ABCs. Unless there is someone close with paramedic level knowledge and equipment to start IVs etc, they likely will go into shock. Then you get to watch your buddy die slowly if you can't make it to definative care (assuming it still exists functionally in SHTF).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/21/2011 9:54:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By Silverbulletz06:
I have a bit of a problem with some of the suggestions we have here. Guaze and wound-stopping dressings are great, but unless your replacing fluids your SOL.


Yeah and unless you can get to definative medical care within the day and ideally into surgery within an hour of the injury you're SOL anyway and thats assuming you can get the necessary medical supplies and the hospitals are still functioning. And thats assuming you won the gunfight. The only sure way to survive SHTF is to not be involved.


This is why training in more than just gun fighting is paramount to survival in a SHTF scenario. Call around to your local fire departments and hospitals. See if any will be offering an EMT-B class that will be open to the public. Many of them do this semi regularly for their members and will open them up to the public to offset the costs. Many times you can get the full course including books for under $600. This was how I got my EMT license and it only took about six months of class two nights a week and 40 hours of clinical time. I now work as an EMT at a local hospital a few nights per month which nets me a little extra cash as well as a ton of experience hands on. Currently in more class so I can get a P next to that.


I'm taking EMT-B now. Since you've got yours and use it, you would understand why all these best *insert item* for SHTF is pointless. Unless you have a team of well trained and practiced faceshooters and a functional support capability, you lose. SHTF is more or less defined by a lack of guaranteed support. After realizing what the horrors of SHTF are, you reallize how any individualistic training for SHTF is mental masterbation. A trauma kit may be able to do ABCs, but that will just guarantee a slower painful death of your buddy or you while you or your buddy watch if S has really HTF. We dont realize how good we have it.




Doing noting guarantees the death of your buddy. I use my license and in that time have seen the miracle that is the human bodies ability to heal itself after some pretty serious fucking boo boos. Of course that is certain not to happen if they bleed out and go into hypoperfusion first. Also remember care does not stop at the Basic level. Just because my license currently stops at basic does not mean I am incapable of delivering care at a level beyond my scope of practice. I have assisted with many procedures numerous times on crazy nights in the ER that go beyond my pay grade and feel confident enough to attempt such procedures myself in a situation where hospitals are out of the question and certain death is the alternative to advanced intervention.

My personal kit contains more than splints and BVMs.


That's all well and good, but he was asking for an IFAK. But that is generally only good for ABCs. Unless there is someone close with paramedic level knowledge and equipment to start IVs etc, they likely will go into shock. Then you get to watch your buddy die slowly if you can't make it to definative care (assuming it still exists functionally in SHTF).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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