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Posted: 5/29/2003 3:16:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 3:18:00 PM EDT by BenDover]
In the past, I've occasionally railed on Baby Boomers for being generally shitty custodians of their descendent's futures. Well, now I have black and white proof. And you wonder why your kids and grandkids don't give a shit about anything. [url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=2&u=/nm/20030529/ts_nm/bush_taxes_report_dc_1[/url] ---------------- White House Denies Shelving Budget Deficit Warning Thu May 29, 2:59 PM ET By Jonathan Nicholson and Randall Mikkelsen WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Thursday denied suppressing a report that projects the U.S. government faces a long-term budget deficit of more than $44 trillion. White House Budget Director Mitch Daniels said the allegation was "probably the most absurd thing that I can imagine." However, he said [b]the looming costs of Social Security and Medicare, which make up most of the forecast gap between government income and spending, were an important issue. [/b] "This is a very legitimate point," he said. The administration was responding to a front-page report in Thursday's Financial Times saying the White House kept the findings out of its annual budget blueprint in February while it prepared to lobby for a new round of tax cuts. Bush signed $350 billion in tax cuts into law on Wednesday. The newspaper also said the study was commissioned by ex-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and written by Jagadeesh Gokhale, a senior economic advisor with the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland and Kent Smetters, a former Treasury deputy assistant secretary for policy coordination. Treasury spokesman Rob Nichols denied that, though. "This paper was not prepared at Treasury, by Treasury, or at the request of anyone at Treasury," he said. However, in testimony before a House of Representatives subcommittee in March, Smetters, with the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, said: "These estimates were made with a detailed model developed by Jagadeesh Gokhale and myself during our time in the Bush administration." While the paper has been circulating among academic and budget circles for some time, it gained wider notice earlier this month when well-known economists Laurence Kotlikoff and Jeffrey Sachs wrote in a column in the Boston Globe that it had been "yanked from the budget." Gokhale said on Thursday that he was not sure whether there had been firm plans to include the study's findings in the administration's hefty budget blueprint. Aside from being spending plans, budgets also are meant to give a rhetorical framework to administration proposals. "It was not a conspiracy, I don't believe," Gokhale told Reuters after an appearance at a Washington budget conference. "Things changed along the way. Secretaries changed. Perhaps the new secretary and his staff didn't have enough time to vet the numbers and get comfortable (with them)," he said. O'Neill resigned in December and was succeeded by current Treasury Secretary John Snow. The intent of the paper was to highlight the need for better budget measures, Gokhale said. A draft of the paper, called "Fiscal and Generational Imbalances: New Budget Measures for New Budget Priorities," is available at the web site of the American Enterprise Institute, where Gokhale is a visiting scholar. The study outlines how [b]the United States is in danger of being overwhelmed by the future health care and retirement costs of the "baby boomer" generation. [/b] The authors use a measure they call fiscal imbalance, which adds federal debt held by the public and the current value of all future federal spending minus the current value of all future revenues. Sustainable policies, they say, would have an imbalance of zero. But [b]largely because of Social Security and Medicare obligations, the imbalance was calculated at $44.2 trillion -- astronomical even by the standards of U.S. federal government accounting. [/b]For this fiscal year, the government's cash shortfall is widely expected to be more than $300 billion while accumulated debt from previous budget deficits stands at around $6.4 trillion.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:38:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:50:31 PM EDT
It's not my fault you bought the snake oil. The Baby Boomer generation swallowed the poison. It was just a really slooooow one. With all of those votes the BB's could have collectively come up with a better solution. Now you have a whole generation of people who are sucking on the nipple and will be stuck when the well runs dry. It's already run dry... 2012? Is that the year I keep hearing kicked around where the SS fund will be depleted? Then what? You aren't going to get what isn't there to be gotten. The Free Love, women's lib, no-fault divorce, abortion, moral decay of society in general, the seeds were all sown in the 60s, 70s, & 80s. I hope the party was worth it because the bill is coming due and payable and the credit card is maxed.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:10:50 PM EDT
Two choices: either give me all my money back (with interest), or I want the SAME friggin' ride everybody's getting now (and not some phased-in reduction in benefits bullshit). Yeah, I know that neither is likely to happen. The person in the future who draws a line and says "Social Security stops now but we'll not refund you or stop taking your money" will have commited political suicide. Talk about a catalyst for a SHTF scenario.... BTW, I'm 37, so I won't be collecting for awhile (if ever!).
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:16:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: It's not my fault you bought the snake oil. The Baby Boomer generation swallowed the poison. It was just a really slooooow one. With all of those votes the BB's could have collectively come up with a better solution. Now you have a whole generation of people who are sucking on the nipple and will be stuck when the well runs dry. It's already run dry... 2012? Is that the year I keep hearing kicked around where the SS fund will be depleted? Then what? You aren't going to get what isn't there to be gotten. The Free Love, women's lib, no-fault divorce, abortion, moral decay of society in general, the seeds were all sown in the 60s, 70s, & 80s. I hope the party was worth it because the bill is coming due and payable and the credit card is maxed.
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The same could be said about the generation that allowed the first gun laws, prohibition, and income tax, not to mention perversions of the the Pure Food and Drug Act. Plenty of blame to go around. The original SS recipients were the ones who took the hook (line and sinker) and they were the War Generation. Government employees (state, federal and local) have tripled over the rate of population growth since 1945. Time to thin the herd anyway.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:28:18 PM EDT
Having just received a yearly statement from SS, I have right at $100,000 invested in the system. And 10 years from now, they say they will start giving it back at the rate of $1114 per month. If I wait to retire til 70, they will give me $2017 per month! Give me my $100,000 right now and I won't bother your "System"
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:29:31 PM EDT
The greedy geezers. Just visit the AARP website and read all they think they are entitled to.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:32:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 4:35:56 PM EDT by ARgue]
Snake oil and snake oil Salesmen sounds about right. [BD] "The government is trying to blame the 'Baby Boomer' costs for the problem, but the fact is that previous administrations had put extra money into the Social Security trust fund to build up the fund to deal with the impending Baby Boomer retirements, but that extra cash is what [url=http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html]Clinton used to manufacture his phony "Budget Surplus".[/url] Of course, there are other areas of severe mismanagement by the government, such as the missing trillion from the defense department this year and a prior scandal involving $3 trillion that went 'walkabout'. The government (made up of mostly lawyers) turned its back on manufacturing 20 years ago, and has been borrowing money like mad, not to reinvest in building up the nation's manufacturing capability, but in endless give-aways, both foreign and domestic, in order to gain votes from various groups who have discovered they can vote themselves free bread and circuses..." [url]http://www.WhatReallyHappened.com[/url] (edited to fix link.)
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:04:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: In the past, I've occasionally railed on Baby Boomers for being generally shitty custodians of their descendent's futures.
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Those descendents can jolly well take care of their own fricking future. Why do you think you're entitled to anything? Stupid schoolsystem these days, is that all they teach you kids nowadays? "Somebody owes you something"? Get a job, have lots of kids (scratch that, just get a job) and pay for your own future. We all had to. Since you spoiled brats think you're so goddamn smart, this shouldn't be much of a problem, now should it?
The Free Love, women's lib, no-fault divorce, abortion, moral decay of society in general, the seeds were all sown in the 60s, 70s, & 80s. I hope the party was worth it because the bill is coming due
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Yup, it was definitely worth it, and I hope you enjoy paying it. First time in history that the younger generation complains about the horrible morale of their predecessors. That alones shows me how dumb the current generation is. But I digress. You're entitled to this: [moon] and nothing else. Make your own money, smartass.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:11:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 6:40:58 AM EDT by TexRdnec]
nothing like lumping an entire generation together in a gross generalization.......................i'll have you damn well know that i started my ROTH when i was 18 edited to be more specific: this was in response to kar98's comment
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:54:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 5:59:25 PM EDT by Scottman]
Originally Posted By raf: I'll damn well get a return on the huge sums I've paid into SS. Count on it.
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Turning 65 soon, eh?
We've got the votes.
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[lol] Yeah, vote republican everybody! They'll save SS! Right. Scott
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:01:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexRdnec: nothing like lumping an entire generation together in a gross generalization.......................i'll have you damn well know that i started my ROTH when i was 18
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I'll have you damn well know that the ROTH IRA was created in 1997, so you are too young to be a baby boomer....
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:04:15 PM EDT
By the way, I believe there is a way to "opt out" of SS Payments...Religious reasons or something. Amish don't pay into it, and I know a few pastors who don't either... fwiw Scott
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:16:54 PM EDT
Hey social security is only an issue if you plan on receiving it. I am thirty two and have always known that I won't see any if it. Social security is nothing more than polital horse shit that ninety percent of the people who payed into it where never intended to receive. Right now the minimum age to get your check should be about eighty. It was a scheme devised during the "great society" and unfortunately remains with us. I say get rid of it and those who don't plan for their old age, well let Darwins theory run free.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:37:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 6:39:37 PM EDT by BenDover]
Originally Posted By Kar98:
Originally Posted By BenDover: In the past, I've occasionally railed on Baby Boomers for being generally shitty custodians of their descendent's futures.
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Those descendents can jolly well take care of their own fricking future. Why do you think you're entitled to anything? Stupid schoolsystem these days, is that all they teach you kids nowadays? "Somebody owes you something"? Get a job, have lots of kids (scratch that, just get a job) and pay for your own future. We all had to. Since you spoiled brats think you're so goddamn smart, this shouldn't be much of a problem, now should it?
The Free Love, women's lib, no-fault divorce, abortion, moral decay of society in general, the seeds were all sown in the 60s, 70s, & 80s. I hope the party was worth it because the bill is coming due
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Yup, it was definitely worth it, and I hope you enjoy paying it. First time in history that the younger generation complains about the horrible morale of their predecessors. That alones shows me how dumb the current generation is. But I digress. You're entitled to this: [moon] and nothing else. Make your own money, smartass.
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Ladies and Gentlemen.... Kar98!!! This sentiment speaks volumes. In the course of history, every parent sought to provide their children with a better life than the one they inherited. If anyone is bleating about needing guarantees, it's the boobs who think they are entitled to get back what they paid. ([:D]... sorry raf... ) I don't think I can name a single peer that doesn't work hard. Nor can I name a single peer that feels they are owed anything but a fighting chance. But hey, what's it worth anyway when all we get at the end of the road is the sense of failure knowing the hole created by our parents won't be filled until our own great grandchildren retire. FWIW, I have also worked for the past 14 years knowing full well I won't have anything for retirement unless I take matters into my own hands. Precious metals purchased with off-balance sheet cash are buried in many places - and the parents won't be getting any. [;)]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:32:42 PM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:42:49 PM EDT
WOO HOO!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:53:36 PM EDT
Let the revolution begin. If memory serves me right, I do not believe our elected leaders are under the same social security "system" we are. I think they enacted themselves their own deal long ago. Anyone know?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:05:59 PM EDT
Social Security/Medicare tax should be optional for anyone who wants to renounce any present and future benefits... Plain and simple... If it went bankrupt tomorrow and the politicos let it die (fat chance, I know...), I wouldn't miss it, as I have no use for it... In fact, I'd probably celebrate it's destruction... Take care of yourself, don't expect big daddy govt to do it for you (which is what SS/Medicare is all about)...
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:19:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 8:21:21 PM EDT by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:44:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARgue: Snake oil and snake oil Salesmen sounds about right. [BD] "The government is trying to blame the 'Baby Boomer' costs for the problem, but the fact is that previous administrations had put extra money into the Social Security trust fund to build up the fund to deal with the impending Baby Boomer retirements, but that extra cash is what [url=http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html]Clinton used to manufacture his phony "Budget Surplus".[/url] Of course, there are other areas of severe mismanagement by the government, such as the missing trillion from the defense department this year and a prior scandal involving $3 trillion that went 'walkabout'. The government (made up of mostly lawyers) turned its back on manufacturing 20 years ago, and has been borrowing money like mad, not to reinvest in building up the nation's manufacturing capability, but in endless give-aways, both foreign and domestic, in order to gain votes from various groups who have discovered they can vote themselves free bread and circuses..." [url]http://www.WhatReallyHappened.com[/url] (edited to fix link.)
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No, ARgue (although given your name, it may not be worth the time), here's what REALLY happened... Wage inflation and a steadily rising cost of living (driven by high taxes, union excesses, and excessive regulation) made manufacturing almost anything that doesn't require skill & precision to produce (i.e. anything in Wal-Mart's inventory, and the bulk of the goods bought & sold in our economy) in the USA economic suicide... The only advantage the American manufacturing sector has over Norinco, Formosa Plastic, Hyundai, or any number of 3rd-world companies is the precision & skill to make complex quality products. American manufacturing is more expensive in terms of materials AND labor, so unless the 'Quality & Precision Skill' is needed, there is no way US manufacturing can compete. Most of the consumer goods bought & sold today consists of cheap disposable crap, because that's what most consumers are looking for (with #2 being 'Cheap disposable crap with a long warranty')... So most of it is made in the 3rd world, where companies can still get away with paying workers for the actual value of the service they provide (weather it's $5/hr or $5/day). 'Made In the USA' has been replaced by 'Managed from the USA'... Just like 'Made in (wherever)' became 'Managed from (wherever)' back when it was cheaper for foreign companies to make things in the (then 3rd-world) USA... Economies change, and manufacturing is cycling out, simply because our economy is too strong to support it....
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:55:56 PM EDT
Social security tax is the best! Why would I say that? Because it's essentially a flat tax. Income tax starts off low, but as you make more money it skyrockets to absurd rates. But EVERYBODY pays social security at the exact same flat rate. AND at the income bracket where income tax gets completely out of control, social security STOPS. You don't pay a dime in social security above about $70,000. What's more, there's no bullshit. Everybody pays and pays at the same rate. Have three kids sucking the tit and want tax shelter, tough, pay it, same percentage rate as everyone else. Have 3 homes and cottage you want to write off? tough, no write off's on social security. It's all pooled in the same pot with the income tax. As to the Baby boomers, Good old Jimmy Carter already put much of the fix in. Benefits were slashed, the retirement age raised (which applies to the baby boomers), and rates have gone up (which applies to the boomers). You can bet your ass that benefits are going to continue to be slashed at a slow yet steady rate indefinately. The cash is trivial, it's the damn medical that costs all the money. Easiest way to fix that is to force the AMA to quite acting like a longshoreman's union and actually hold their boys accountable, in exchang for some serious tort reform. Toss the lawyers and the savings will be serious - like that'll ever happen though.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:09:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By ARgue: Snake oil and snake oil Salesmen sounds about right. [BD] "The government is trying to blame the 'Baby Boomer' costs for the problem, but the fact is that previous administrations had put extra money into the Social Security trust fund to build up the fund to deal with the impending Baby Boomer retirements, but that extra cash is what [url=http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE2/budget.html]Clinton used to manufacture his phony "Budget Surplus".[/url] Of course, there are other areas of severe mismanagement by the government, such as the missing trillion from the defense department this year and a prior scandal involving $3 trillion that went 'walkabout'. The government (made up of mostly lawyers) turned its back on manufacturing 20 years ago, and has been borrowing money like mad, not to reinvest in building up the nation's manufacturing capability, but in endless give-aways, both foreign and domestic, in order to gain votes from various groups who have discovered they can vote themselves free bread and circuses..." [url]http://www.WhatReallyHappened.com[/url]
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No, ARgue (although given your name, it may not be worth the time)...
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LOL...you might be right. [:E] But, I think we're on the same page here, if you take the quote, "The government (made up of mostly lawyers) turned its back on manufacturing 20 years ago..." and apply it to your description of HOW the goverment turned their back on manufacturing and on America with, "[w]age inflation and a steadily rising cost of living (driven by high taxes, union excesses, and excessive regulation)," which, "made manufacturing almost anything that doesn't require skill & precision to produce (i.e. anything in Wal-Mart's inventory, and the bulk of the goods bought & sold in our economy) in the USA economic suicide..."
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:13:05 PM EDT
Ben, if you havnt read "Death of The West" try it.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:37:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BenDover: Ladies and Gentlemen....
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...BenDover; yet another pompous-assed kid who thinks his generation invented everything and all the generations before him were essentially nothing but stupid grunting cave-dwellers, barely capable of speech; and if these old farts would just die, everybody will be happy in La-La-Land, where the Teletubbies roam. Guess what? You're nothing unique (maybe except for your hideous facial features and your extraordinary stupidity, but here I'm speculating), there's thousands of deluded creatures like you, and there have been countless millions before you.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:51:50 PM EDT
OOOH! You're so swell Kar. You're the cat's meow baby. I wish I could be groovy like you. Someday I could be just like Kar, except I will be working hard to pay for his groovy party. Groovy man. Groovy.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:01:33 PM EDT
After reading this thread, two items are abundantly clear: 1. In most cases, government entitlement/welfare/benefit programs do more harm then they do good. 2. Kar98 is coming across loud and clear as a sourass.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:01:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 10:03:59 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
[b]Social Security System.[/b] [rolleyes]
From the [url=http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm]U.S. Securities And Exchange Commission[/url] website... PYRAMID SCHEMES: [red]In the classic "pyramid" scheme, participants attempt to make money solely by recruiting new participants into the program. [/red] The hallmark of these schemes is the promise of sky-high returns in a short period of time for doing nothing other than handing over your money and getting others to do the same. The fraudsters behind a pyramid scheme may go to great lengths to make the program look like a legitimate multi-level marketing program. But despite their claims to have legitimate products or services to sell, [red]these fraudsters simply use money coming in from new recruits is used to pay off early stage investors. [size=3]But eventually the pyramid will collapse. [/size=3] At some point the schemes get too big, the promoter cannot raise enough money from new investors to pay earlier investors, and many people lose their money.[/red]
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Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:02:29 PM EDT
the kids of baby boomers (Gen-Xers)(im one) have a HINT AND HALF right friggin NOW to start figuring out some other alternative to SS. 30-40 years to set up and pay into a IRA. i predict that SS problem will be a major downfall of American govt
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:31:38 PM EDT
But without my SS how am I going to be able to Afford to live in a $250000 Class A moterhome? Ive known for a long time I probably wont see SS when I retire. I can accept that. Currently Im collecting Disability but that will stop here in a couple months when I go to work again. I sort of see it as Charity. What I dont understand is the cost Of medical treatment How the price can rise 300% in a few years I dont know. If someone can explane why med costs are so high Id like to know.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:55:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 10:58:33 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By OregonShooter: What I dont understand is the cost Of medical treatment How the price can rise 300% in a few years I dont know. If someone can explane why med costs are so high Id like to know.
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Lots of reasons. Technology ain't cheap. Neither is R&D nowadays (that also requires lots of high-tech equipment). Also, you're not just paying for the new drug, hardware or procedure that works better than the old one did, you're paying for the 99 other R&D FAILURES that led up to that one new gadget or pill you need. Then there's insurance against litigation. Malpractice insurance is running LOTS of good doctors out of practice. I know and work with a few who've left medicine precisely because of the insurance and the ENORMOUS bureaurocratic red tape in dealing with HMOs/PPOs and Gov't medical agencies. And then there's more and more people getting first-class, high-tech medical care who don't pay ANYTHING [i]{cough-lung transplant done twice on an illegal alien-cough}[/i]. And of course there's the HMOs and other providers who dissipate the high costs among more and more people who pay high premiums whether they're sick or not. The best way to allow runaway pricing is to insulate the customer from the real ACTUAL price of the service being given. How can a hospital charge $7.00 for two Tylenol? Because YOU don't actually pay that bill, you pass it to your insurance company who then spreads it over 300,000 other people who all pay a just-bearably high enough premium to afford all those $7.00 Tylenols you're given. Then of course, there's just plain greed. Greed on the part of medical administrators, HMO administrators, insurance administrators, legal adminstrators... Nowadays there's huge shortages of nurses and lab workers (even doctors) because it just doesn't pay enough to keep the positions filled and hospitals tend to make budget cuts from the bottom first. There always seems to be a shortage of nurses or lab technician in the medical field - but never a hospital administrator shortage... Hmmmm. [:\]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:06:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: And then there's more and more people getting first-class, high-tech medical care who don't pay ANYTHING [i]{cough-lung transplant done twice on an illegal alien-cough}[/i].
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Bingo. Not to mention the increased premiums of paying for insurance. [uzi]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:19:07 PM EDT
I've always considered SS to be a tax, [b]only a tax[/b], and like the rest of the taxes that are taken from me, I don't expect to ever see it again.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:23:55 AM EDT
Makes me glad neither me or my wife have to pay into social security. Does anyone find it strange that civil service employees can be exempted from contributing into social security?
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:58:50 AM EDT
To blame the baby boomers for the state of this system and to criticize them for expecting to receive something back from the system they funded for 30-40 years, is about as childish and selfish as it gets.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:58:53 AM EDT
Mr. -Dover: I'm a self employed late boomer son of a depression and war era couple. My parents, both born in the early '20's, knew from the start that SS was a bad seed. We were taught from VERY young to plan for our own future, not some nannys tit. Being self employed, I have the joy of paying DOUBLE...(Ben) that means TWICE as much as everyone else. I have to pay as the employee AND the employer. Don't you dare lump me in with a socialist mentality. SS figures in at exactly 0% of my future, (note I did not say retirement as "retirement" is a fairly new ill fated desire) plans.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 3:23:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 3:32:14 AM EDT by RAMBOSKY]
Being a "Baby Boomer" myself and working all my life under this system, I am shocked. I really feel bad that "Gen Xer's" are in trouble. I guess there is only one honorable thing to do. I will donate my retirement money back into the system to make sure people like Eminem have money to retire on. [b]NOT ![/b] [8D]
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 4:25:14 AM EDT
Look, my comments are not to single out any one Boomer for criticism. However, as in the clear case of some who have expressed their, "Hey, it's your problem, quit your whining" attitudes, it's easy to see where the resentments are only going to get worse. Guys like Kar98's instant reaction to any criticism is crap like: 1. You want a free ride 2. You think you are owed something 3. I am gonna get mine 4. If you are bitching then you must not be working etc... The stark reality is... if you aren't already drawing SS, it's spent. What goes in now is what is being used to pay the current, realtime recipients. Actually, it's what is used to pay the debt service against what has been borrowed out of the fund. As the working population shrinks, there will be fewer people paying into the system to support the demand. GenXers will be faced with some difficult decisions, and it will likely not bode well for the masses trying to all 'get theirs'. They already spent theirs. Gone. Finis. Nada. If I were a Baby Boomer, instead of adopting the 'fuck you it's not my problem' attitude, I'd be trying to figure out how to work to help ensure a better solution for the next 20-30 years - starting with putting as much pressure as you can on your reps. After all, someday you will be in a situation where your care and well being is placed wholly in the hands of we, how did he put it....
...pompous-assed kid(s) who thinks [s]his[/s] their generation invented everything and all the generations before [s]him[/s] them were essentially nothing but stupid grunting cave-dwellers, barely capable of speech; and if these old farts would just die, everybody will be happy in La-La-Land, where the Teletubbies roam....
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What's that? Your Depends need changed? Oh, you can sit in them for a while longer. We need to stretch our budget, so why don' t you wait until you've gone at least 4 or 5 more times.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 4:45:18 AM EDT
"Fuck you!" [lol] I was thinkin last night... Even tho it would only prolong the stupidity of the SS Ponzi scheme a little longer... How different would the situation be if those nearly 40 million Americans hadn't been killed since Roe v. Wade. That's a lot of workin' stiffs. Oh well...We could also learn from the Amish who take care of their own elderly... But instead, we'll just slide painfully into the abyss. Scott
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:12:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:46:53 AM EDT
Maybe if you guys would get off your butts, stop believing all the government lies, and actually read the tax laws for yourselves, you would find that there are NO LAWS that require a United States Citizen to get a Social Secutiry Number, contribute to Social Security or Medicare, or pay income taxes.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 5:52:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Buddyman: Maybe if you guys would get off your butts, stop believing all the government lies, and actually read the tax laws for yourselves, you would find that there are NO LAWS that require a United States Citizen to get a Social Secutiry Number, contribute to Social Security or Medicare, or pay income taxes.
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I knew a guy who used to say the same thing. He ended up in a world of hurt.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 6:03:37 AM EDT
Most boomers might be more at ease with lower or no SS payments if Congress lowered or eliminated their retirement along with all government pensions. Let's all get along OK and take the medicine together.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 6:25:36 AM EDT
I'll never accept a check from those bastards. I don't put *my* problems on the shoulders of others.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 6:49:27 AM EDT
The politicos have long spent the funds that I put into the SS years ago. They thought of as a huge piggy-bank. They gave away, and I mean litterally gave the money. When there was surplus, the politicos just had a field-day thinking of better ways of spending the money. There is no way to the stop and the train get off, because we(the USA-economy) is heading for a HUGE train wreck. Then only reason why the past crop of retirees can live like kings,(i.e. get paid more than they put into it is because of the number of baby-boomers paying into the system), it kinda like a pyramid scheme where the early guys make out like bandits and the laters people get screwed.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 7:23:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: Then only reason why the past crop of retirees can live like kings,(i.e. get paid more than they put into it is because of the number of baby-boomers paying into the system), it kinda like a pyramid scheme where the early guys make out like bandits and the laters people get screwed.
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EXACTLY!!! With GenX being the plankton of the SS foodchain.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 7:28:42 AM EDT
I always figured Id never see the SS Ive paid in. I also figured that Id never want to live long enough to draw it.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 7:39:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Buddyman: Maybe if you guys would get off your butts, stop believing all the government lies, and actually read the tax laws for yourselves, you would find that there are NO LAWS that require a United States Citizen to get a Social Secutiry Number, contribute to Social Security or Medicare, or pay income taxes.
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I have a 6 and 4 year old at home... the hospital would not let me leave without filling out the request for a SSN. I believe you are mistaken.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:34:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord: [red]kinda like a pyramid scheme[/red] where the early guys make out like bandits and the laters people get screwed.
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[:|]
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:09:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By illigb:
Originally Posted By Buddyman: Maybe if you guys would get off your butts, stop believing all the government lies, and actually read the tax laws for yourselves, you would find that there are NO LAWS that require a United States Citizen to get a Social Secutiry Number, contribute to Social Security or Medicare, or pay income taxes.
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I have a 6 and 4 year old at home... the hospital would not let me leave without filling out the request for a SSN. I believe you are mistaken.
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[url]http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10023.html[/url] Not disputing what happened to you but it is voluntary. The reality is probably like saying "breathing is voluntary".
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:18:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [Lots of reasons. Technology ain't cheap. Neither is R&D nowadays (that also requires lots of high-tech equipment). Also, you're not just paying for the new drug, hardware or procedure that works better than the old one did, you're paying for the 99 other R&D FAILURES that led up to that one new gadget or pill you need. Then there's insurance against litigation. Malpractice insurance is running LOTS of good doctors out of practice. I know and work with a few who've left medicine precisely because of the insurance and the ENORMOUS bureaurocratic red tape in dealing with HMOs/PPOs and Gov't medical agencies. And then there's more and more people getting first-class, high-tech medical care who don't pay ANYTHING [i]{cough-lung transplant done twice on an illegal alien-cough}[/i]. And of course there's the HMOs and other providers who dissipate the high costs among more and more people who pay high premiums whether they're sick or not. The best way to allow runaway pricing is to insulate the customer from the real ACTUAL price of the service being given. How can a hospital charge $7.00 for two Tylenol? Because YOU don't actually pay that bill, you pass it to your insurance company who then spreads it over 300,000 other people who all pay a just-bearably high enough premium to afford all those $7.00 Tylenols you're given. Then of course, there's just plain greed. Greed on the part of medical administrators, HMO administrators, insurance administrators, legal adminstrators... Nowadays there's huge shortages of nurses and lab workers (even doctors) because it just doesn't pay enough to keep the positions filled and hospitals tend to make budget cuts from the bottom first. There always seems to be a shortage of nurses or lab technician in the medical field - but never a hospital administrator shortage... Hmmmm. [:\]
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You want to create a administrator shortage? How about a shortage of lawyers? How about we restrict SS to those that actually paid into the system, converting this absymal failure of a ponzi scheme into something of a honest retirment system? The problem is the "system" had a few excess dollars when first created and the scumbags overseeing it decided that some non-paying people DESRVED to be included. Its name is flawed. It should be Oversocialized Insecurity. Or a labor tax. It was never a security program. And to make matters worse, it has reduced us to fvcking numbers. We should all be allowed the abilitty to opt out. I'll even be generous and let them keep what I have paid over my 18 years of paying into this program.
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