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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:14:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Oddly enough, after owning a couple of fullsize 20" pre-ban Colts for the last 10 years, in the last year and a half I've discovered that I really like carbines. My Colt M4gery and R6830 are the two ARs that get the most use these days. I wouldn't consider any serious AR enthusiast's collection complete without a carbine of some sort. I think 3 would be the absolute minimum number of ARs that I would want in my vault. That would be one pre-ban fullsize USGI A2 type, one pre-ban carbine/M4 type, and one dedicated target/varmint setup built on either a pre- or post-ban lower.
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:43:49 AM EDT
[#2]
Younger guys like carbines cause they look cool. When you get past that and start thinking about hitting the target (and cutting down on the noise), you want a rifle. Next you'll decide you need a 24 inch.
And yes, the carbine is great for those room to room gunfights, but I don't do that much house assaulting any more. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 4:25:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Don't discount the carbines too much. Last weekend at the Texas Shoot we did a timed high-speed match shooting 6 steel plates, all about the size of a lunch plate. Distance was about 90 yards. I was very surprised to see how many folks, including me, could hit those targets (under pressure) with a 16" carbine (iron sights). A carbine is not made for bullseye target shooting nor is it for long distance. It's primary use is close and tactical range shooting.
Boomer, I agree - I have 3 AR's... Shoot well. CMOS Granted I would not want to use a 16" for a 300 yard tange but from 0-300, that carbine will do the job for most "practical" sized targets. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 6:11:53 AM EDT
[#4]
I had read in some magazine once, a description between rifles, carbines, handguns and shotguns.
It went something like this: "When you think you need a rifle, you need a rifle. "When you think you need a pistol, you need a pistol. "When you think you need a shotgun, you need a shotgun. "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine." I just thought that was a pretty good way of describing it. I own only one AR, a 20" HBAR. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 6:35:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine." Interesting. Who would have ever thought that supposedly high speed, highly trained special forces units the world 'round really have no idea what they need or what they are doing? Personally, if I HAD to narrow it down to one AR, it would be my first AR15A2, a Colt R6550, basically an M16A2 clone. A real Jack-of-all-trades sort of gun with plenty of versatility. Much better to pack an extra loaded mag than an unnecessarily heavy barrel. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 6:47:55 AM EDT
[#6]
You KNOW you need a FAL, 700...you must answer the call....but you have to keep that sweet carbine with the Reflex...(begin subliminal text) sell me the Reflex for my carbine....sell Tim the sight...cheeappp.....(subliminal message ends)
I like my carbine, and I do have a rifle. After carrying a rifle in the service for so long I like the carbine-it's got that neat factor, and I, personally, have found it just right for out to 200 yds. I did put a Colt 3X on my rifle, and I enjoy the setup very much, as target ID beyond 300 yards get difficult with my oldish eyedrums. Tim J |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 6:51:25 AM EDT
[#7]
i tend to hit at long ranges give me a 20" but if your a collector get both for your collection.
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Posted: 4/26/2001 8:19:53 AM EDT
[#8]
700 - i feel the same - m4s are just soo handy though. but i hit better and i think the 20" is really the better overall weapon. carbines are cool but my 6551 has never let me down and i know it can do the job.
steve |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 9:22:32 AM EDT
[#9]
IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308?
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Posted: 4/26/2001 9:45:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Thats why I have both. 16" & 24"
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Posted: 4/26/2001 10:06:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Me likes them ALL!
[heavy] |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 10:17:17 AM EDT
[#12]
IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308? Long doesn't have to mean heavy, though. E.g., a 20" rifle with an A1 style barrel is lighter than a 16" HBAR carbine. I like the idea of an 18" compromise length, but I seem to be in a minority of one on that. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 10:45:39 AM EDT
[#13]
A man should be horse-whipped for selling a good firearm! NEVER NEVER NEVER for me.
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Posted: 4/26/2001 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine." Interesting. Who would have ever thought that supposedly high speed, highly trained special forces units the world 'round really have no idea what they need or what they are doing? Personally, if I HAD to narrow it down to one AR, it would be my first AR15A2, a Colt R6550, basically an M16A2 clone. A real Jack-of-all-trades sort of gun with plenty of versatility. Much better to pack an extra loaded mag than an unnecessarily heavy barrel. Well, the idea wasn't, of course, that these highly trained personnel don't know what they need. But rather, more like the carbine is a jack-of-all-trades. Maybe not the VERY best in all situations, but able to handle all situations well. Think more along these lines... if you have a pistol and you NEED a rifle, your pretty much SOL. If your in a tight place with your rifle, a pistol would be handier. Whereas a carbine, won't have the looooong range of the rifle or the handiness of the pistol, is a fair substitute for either. IMHO |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 12:11:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: And yes, the carbine is great for those room to room gunfights, but I don't do that much house assaulting any more. yah, but until im sure im done storming houses i will have to stick with the carbine |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 12:47:50 PM EDT
[#16]
To me, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the .223. Before anyone calls me a heretic for what I am about to say, let me just proclaim my love for the .223 round. That said, I wouldn't use the .223 for anything past 200 yards.
Past 200 yards, I would use .308. So, a 20" barrel on a .223 is pointless, IMHO. If you think you need a longer barrel, then what you really need is a .308, NOT a .223 with a longer barrel. One mans opinion.... |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 12:51:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Hmmm... on the one hand, the mall is over 150 meters long, but on the other hand, they do have some tight aisles in the Disney Store...
[pistol] |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 1:05:11 PM EDT
[#18]
I like my CAR-15 (built from a kit). It was more accurate then my stock 20" Bushmaster VMatch (chrome lined barrel). Since then I've installed a different bull barrel on the Bushy - Groovy, now I got another spare part.
I like them both equally. Both are reliable and fun to shoot. But then, I tend to want one of each flavor. Just my humble opinion. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 1:46:02 PM EDT
[#19]
if it goes "bang" and sends lead downrange, its good enough for me.
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Posted: 4/26/2001 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#20]
I have a 14.5" M4, a 20" DCM, and a 24" vARmint. One for every mood I'm in [:D]
I think 4 is maybe the magic number of AR's to own. The three above plus a 10.5" full auto. Still can't afford one of them, but maybe in the future. [uzi] |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 2:02:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Or, why not get another upper. Now you can have the best of both worlds.
Besides, it's fun to play switch and pitch. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 2:12:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Younger guys like carbines cause they look cool. When you get past that and start thinking about hitting the target (and cutting down on the noise), you want a rifle. Next you'll decide you need a 24 inch.
i'm 23 and betwen a rifle and a carbine i wouldn't hesitate for a second and i'd go for the rifle...nothing like a 20 inchs for 5.56x45 :))))))).......in fact if i'd have to choose a small assault weapon it'd be a MP5 or some 9mm car. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:05:01 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm with you Rikwriter and Garandman. I've got a 16"Bull bbl AR-15 and a 24" AR-10. There is nothing inherently inaccurate about a short barrel, in fact a shorter of a given diameter will be stiffer than a long barrel of the same dia. I've yet to do any target shooting with my .223 but it's plenty accurate enough to nail running jack rabbits at 150yds and it's a lot nicer to pack around than my old 22" bull bbl AR15.
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:23:56 PM EDT
[#24]
My favorite AR is an original 1978 SP1 CAR. I have a couple of post bans in 20" and 16" and a 20" SP1. The CAR shoots as well as the others and is alot more fun to handle and shoot. And it is cool! And I am an OLD guy!!!
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:27:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: A man should be horse-whipped for selling a good firearm! NEVER NEVER NEVER for me. Selling off 3 good firearms and buying 4 or 5 different good firearms seems like a pretty good idea to me! [;)] |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:33:25 PM EDT
[#26]
I too discovered something about AR's.
THEY ARE VERY ADDICTIVE! |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:42:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308? My god. I think I just got hit in the head with hog shit from all those flyin pigs..... You and I agree on both (Vehicle and .308) and it will never happen again. McUZI, not supposed to be posting here anymore, but couldn't resist. |
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Posted: 4/26/2001 3:44:52 PM EDT
[#28]
I really like my 16" Bushy. It's nice and handy, and does everything I need it to do. Currently it resides in a place that is very easy to reach in the middle of the night, ready to go with a mag full of Hornady's 72 gr. T.A.P. load. I remember reading in a Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement that this load is extremely effective on bad guys and is less likely to go through him and into your roommate down the hall than a Federal HydrShok in 9mm. Just a thought.
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Posted: 4/27/2001 2:38:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Originally Posted By Matt VDW: I like the idea of an 18" compromise length, but I seem to be in a minority of one on that. Hmmm... A dissipator with an 18" A2 profile barrel, I might have to look into that! [:D] Would you have to open up the gas port if you cut down a 20" to 18"? |
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Posted: 4/27/2001 4:30:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Would you have to open up the gas port if you cut down a 20" to 18"? I asked about that in the "Uppers, Barrels, Etc." forum and no one replied. My guess is that you could get away with the original gas port 98% of the time, but it might be worthwhile to open the port a smidge to cover the other 2%. |
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