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Posted: 1/2/2003 2:43:01 AM EST
I had an electrical fire a short while ago, and the FD didn't waste any time getting here, nor did they BS around when they did. They tried like hell to minmize damage, but had to tear out a good bit of ceiling and wall to get it all. No biggie. Hell, they even cleaned up a lot of the mess, which struck me as a little more than they had to do. It wasn't in my opinion, a REAL serious fire (no lives in danger), but they sure as hell acted like it was. My hat's off to ya, Gents!
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 12:56:04 PM EST
Yea, it's pretty amazing to see them go on a structure fire. Our district chiefs don't take any signs of a fire lightly. They attack aggresively. They'd rather tear down a section of wallboard to put out or investigate the smoke than sit back and wait. Also, in talking with a few FF, I guess wall/ceiling fires are pretty nasty, and can take the whole structure in minutes if not contained.
Link Posted: 1/3/2003 10:28:13 PM EST
Spyder007, Yea, fire getting in the wall or ceiling can be a problem. Nothing's worse than thinking you've got a small outlet fire extinguished to get toned out 3 hours later because you missed some smoldering ember and now the neighbors see fire coming through the roof. E-95
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 8:24:30 AM EST
Paid or volunteers? I've been a volunteer for 13 years in a small town. Folks still don't understand that we get NO pay or compensation. Hard to believe......
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 9:02:18 AM EST
Did they steal anything? FF"s have a habit of looting fire scenes.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 9:52:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Did they steal anything? FF"s have a habit of looting fire scenes.
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Where the hell did the come from? Steal? I must have missed the six o'clock evening news where Fire Fighters steal from poor family who's house burnt to the ground. Is this some stereo type? Like all cops eat donuts and all defense attorneys really believe that their clients are innocent? Most fire companies deal harshly with thieves because they have a tendency to take life saving equipment from the apparatus which could cause a life. Mine or maybe yours.... Stop by a New York City firehouse and make the same comment. See how long it takes before they bounce you on your head. [}:D]
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:19:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 11:24:39 AM EST by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By reciprocity: Where the hell did the come from? Steal? I must have missed the six o'clock evening news where Fire Fighters steal from poor family who's house burnt to the ground.
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I have worked in LE for 15 years. I have been to many fire scenes in that time. The good ones complain about the bad ones. It happens with alarming regularity. Whether it be residential fires or commercial/industrial. And not only do they loot fire scenes, they steal from dead bodies as well. Before Paramedics were widely used, Cops used to be the first ones to respond to a dead body. You know the kind, some old person found dead in their home by a neighbor or friend. 30 years ago it was the cops that would clean them out, now it's the medics.
Is this some stereo type? Like all cops eat donuts and all defense attorneys really believe that their clients are innocent?
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No, I'm not saying that they all do it. But to deny it happens is being either naive or dishonest. A red truck and a firehose does not preclude anyone from criminal activity. A union officer from a local FD committed suicide after he got caught embezzling over $100,000.00 from his buddies, you know the hero's that risk their lives for each other? Right, trust me with your life but not your money or your wife. The P.D. I work for has sent two FF's to prison for selling cocaine. Others have been arrested for lessor criminal offenses. Those of us who work closely with them know that their moral character is no better than anyone elses.
Most fire companies deal harshly with thieves because they have a tendency to take life saving equipment from the apparatus which could cause a life. Mine or maybe yours....
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Firefighters policing their own? Not likely. A few years ago some Chicago FF"s including a supervisor were prosecuted for looting a conveinence store fire. Isn't the boss supposed to make sure that stuff doesn't happen?
Stop by a New York City firehouse and make the same comment. See how long it takes before they bounce you on your head.
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Several construction workers at the Twin Towers clean up witnessed FDNY looting. They reported it, it made the news and was quickly hushed up. You won't find me on the FF's are heros band wagon. Sure they put out fires, they take risks and they save lives. But, they are also lazy. Excluding the medics, they spend the bulk of their time on the clock, washing their POV's, working on their side businesses, playing basketball/working out, watching T.V., sleeping or eating. And oh God! How they bitch and cry when you get them out of bed! Don't ever have the bad manners of letting your property catch fire in the middle of the night. Most cities waste a tremendous amount of money on FD's. Cities under 100,000 pop. could easily get away with full time medics and part time/Vol. FF's. Edited to say; [b][red][size=4]THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED![/size=4][/red][b]
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:27:02 AM EST
Don't ever have the bad manners of letting your property catch fire in the middle of the night.
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As it happens, it was just before 4 in the morning, and no, they didn't bitch, nor did they steal anything. I'm sure you have good reasons for your opinion of FFs, but in my case, they conducted themselves as professionals in every possible way.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 11:33:18 AM EST
Sukebe, Well said. Truer words have not been spoken.
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 1:04:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/4/2003 6:17:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2003 6:20:14 PM EST by reciprocity]
First off you got me wrong. I never intended to create a pissing match. I'm not worshipping anybody..... I'm not puttin anybody on any pedestal.... I'm not saying that the emergency services in your community aren't without their flaws... But I don't live in your community. I live in a small town. If the 9 hundred, thousand, million, billion, trillion, quasillion people in your community, perhaps being quoted as New York City, have to put up with it then I feel bad. I feel bad for a community that can't trust its paramedics and fire fighters and police officers. We use the individuals locally as role models. Everyone knows one another in our small town. We trust one another. But we don't have gangs, no homeless and only two homicides in the past 40 years. Don't get me wrong we have our share of problems but not with our emergency services. I would to invite you to my small town. I'll show you good folks doing tough jobs. Zardoz: Sorry. I think I turned a good post about a job well done into a circus.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 5:41:27 AM EST
sherm8404 Do you have a link to that information. It was my understanding that there was no basis for the allegation that FFs were stealing in the in the first WTC attack and that the allegations of theft were later attributed to the FDNY/NYPD rivelry. Some unknown NYPD MOS even sent out christmas cards that year with a FDNY santa holding a money bag initialed WTC. I would be very interested if you have it, thanks. Robert
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 8:54:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2003 8:57:28 AM EST by ChrisLe]
Originally Posted By Robertesq1: sherm8404 Do you have a link to that information. It was my understanding that there was no basis for the allegation that FFs were stealing in the in the first WTC attack and that the allegations of theft were later attributed to the FDNY/NYPD rivelry. I would be very interested if you have it, thanks. Robert
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There is no link to the information per se. I will tell you that I personally have seen the video tape of the of the two FF's attempting to break into the ATM at the '93 bombing. Needless to say, they were quietly told to resign. There were no charges filed in lieu of them resigning. It goes to the old double standard. had it been NYPD MOS on that video tape, that video tape would have been on prime time news and the MOS would have been led out in handcuffs amid a public spectacle. I agree with Sherm8404 in that we need to put this hero worship crap in its proper place. The 400 EMS/FD/PD who sacrificed their life that morning were heroes. The rest of us (FD/PD/EMS)were merely survivors who bore witness to tragic history.....
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 5:13:15 PM EST
Zardoz: Sorry. I think I turned a good post about a job well done into a circus.
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Don't sweat it, man. All professions are made up of people, and so there's bound to be a few bad ones in the bunch. (Just glad I got a bunch of good ones)
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 9:11:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Did they steal anything? FF"s have a habit of looting fire scenes.
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Yep I'm sure they do just like big city cops are corupt & steal shit all the time along with shooting up bars off duty when drunk, doing drugs & even worse things. However, come out here where we do the FF thing for other reasons than a paycheck & see what happens to a thief, this is not the big city but where people really care about others & helping them. Then again living here the Sheriff helps pull hose & do anything possible to help on the fire ground when needed and they use our fire houses as needed without so much of a single complaint from the fire fighters. Guess it's the lifestyle we lead out here that fosters teamwork, trust & respect among each other instead of what you get when living in a big city where nobody gives a shit about anybody but themselves.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 3:14:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Shrike9:
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Did they steal anything? FF"s have a habit of looting fire scenes.
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Yep I'm sure they do just like big city cops are corupt & steal shit all the time along with shooting up bars off duty when drunk, doing drugs & even worse things. However, come out here where we do the FF thing for other reasons than a paycheck & see what happens to a thief, this is not the big city but where people really care about others & helping them. Then again living here the Sheriff helps pull hose & do anything possible to help on the fire ground when needed and they use our fire houses as needed without so much of a single complaint from the fire fighters. Guess it's the lifestyle we lead out here that fosters teamwork, trust & respect among each other instead of what you get when living in a big city where nobody gives a shit about anybody but themselves.
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Your world sounds like a nice place.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 5:50:51 PM EST
This thread started out nice enough, too bad somebody with a chip on his shoulder had to hijack it. Zardoz - glad things worked out okay for you, small incidents like that have a nasty habit of turning into large fires if not taken seriously and handled agressively. The compliment is greatly appreciated. As for the hijackers of this thread, condemning an entire profession for the actions of a few bad apples just shows your intelligence level. (or lack of same). Your comments were uncalled for and completely out of line. Sukebe - you really need to get a clue, "cities under 100,000 pop. could easily get away with part-time/vol. FF's". Perhaps in your pathetic little world, but not in the real world.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:37:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By fireguy: As for the hijackers of this thread, condemning an entire profession for the actions of a few bad apples just shows your intelligence level. (or lack of same).
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I didn't condem and entire proffession. But as I stated, to deny it happens is being naive or dishonest
Your comments were uncalled for and completely out of line.
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Perhaps out of place but not out of line.
Sukebe - you really need to get a clue, "cities under 100,000 pop. could easily get away with part-time/vol. FF's". Perhaps in your pathetic little world, but not in the real world.
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In most cities the number of full time FF's are an unneccessary financial burden. Fire prevention methods of the last 30-40 years have reduced the number of major fires in every city in this country. In some large departments an FF can go an entire career and only fight a couple of major fires and a few never fight any at all. How is it that rural areas are covered by volunteers that are able to respond from much greater distances than municipalities have to cover? I see idle FF's around town all day every day. Perhaps you guys should go on patrol looking for fires. That is if you can pull yourselves away from the barbecue. Excuse me if I don't kiss your hero ass. I'm just no smart enough to see how wonderful you are.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:00:37 AM EST
Sukebe, really glad to see you have some valuable imput in this thread. Keep all you're excellent info comming as without you we would never have so many gut busting laughs. It sure is a shame you see fire fighters sitting around without anything to do as that means fire prevention is working, or would you rather see them racing from fire to fire knowing peoples lives are being destroyed. Bet you would be the 1st person to scream & yell if you're home was on fire and had to wait a extra 5-10 min for the vollys to show up. Or than again what if you're home was on fire and nobody showed up. You sir have no idea what it's like to live is a small rural town or even a medium/large rural city and how important fire protection is. Volly's are a good thing, but what do you do when the sun is up and everybody is working earning a living and you're house catches on fire???
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:56:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 5:07:45 AM EST by ChrisLe]
Originally Posted By Sukebe: In most cities the number of full time FF's are an unnecessary financial burden. Fire prevention methods of the last 30-40 years have reduced the number of major fires in every city in this country. In some large departments an FF can go an entire career and only fight a couple of major fires and a few never fight any at all. How is it that rural areas are covered by volunteers that are able to respond from much greater distances than municipalities have to cover? I see idle FF's around town all day every day. Perhaps you guys should go on patrol looking for fires. That is if you can pull yourselves away from the barbecue.
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I must strongly disagree with that statement. If we were to apply that same line of thinking to the NYPD then, considering the crime rate in NYC is at lows not seen since the 1930's, we should start laying off some of those 41,000+ LEO's in NYC. After all, crime is so low we don't need that many of them. FF's do much more than sit around and barbecue. In addition to firefighting they respond to medical calls, conduct hydrant inspections, train continually, perform Building Inspections, lecture in grade schools, conduct fire prevention lectures, respond to MVA's, and numerous other incidents. In addition to that, the workload per incident is much greater than the typical incident an LEO responds to. A typical fire call often requires the response of multiple apparatus with multiple personnel. Whereas the typical LEO call requires no more than one or two LEO's.
Excuse me if I don't kiss your hero ass. I'm just no smart enough to see how wonderful you are.
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I agree with you in the sense that this hero worship is way out of proportion and part of that blame goes to the FF's themselves for continuing to 'suck the 9/11 tit' but, at the very least, you have to respect what they do for a living. I don't know whether its a deep rooted hatred of FF or jealousy that elicited that statement. I'm as pro LEO as they get on this board, but even I can see how statements like yours can enflame and further the anti-LEO mentality that runs rampant on this board. After reading your statement, I can't blame them for their hatred of LEO's. And note that I'm not a FF nor do I care for the elitist attitude most FF's I work with exhibit on a daily basis. But I do respect what they do for a living irregardless of what I may personally think of them. Safe tour, Chris
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:59:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 5:59:52 AM EST by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By ChrisLe: I'm as pro LEO as they get on this board, but even I can see how statements like yours can enflame and further the anti-LEO mentality that runs rampant on this board. After reading your statement, I can't blame them for their hatred of LEO's.
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Man, I'm responsible for people's dislike of Cops. Wow, that's a heavy burden.[rolleyes]
And note that I'm not a FF nor do I care for the elitist attitude most FF's I work with exhibit on a daily basis. But I do respect what they do for a living irregardless of what I may personally think of them. Safe tour, Chris
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Ditto.
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